Harley Trike Oil Filter Relocation Kit optional braided hose connection failure

[ultrafxr]

Kevin, could you please clone yourself and send the clone to the motor company. They are in desperate need of someone like you!

Seriously, good info and lots of think I would never have thought about.

 

[Rooster57]

Reply to Kevin with DK Customs!

Hey Kevin!

..wife just got back from P.O and mailed the broken hose end to you per your request.

............I read the chemical analysis sheet you supplied.....I get it about the chemicals having detrimental affects on these hoses....But!!!! This liquid tape changes within a short time and hardens which would limit its negative exposure to the line (ain't sayin' its good for it mind you).........and keep in mind that only the exposed part of the brass fittings are swabbed with this stuff to paint the ugly brass fittings (don't take it personal, but the brass fittings ain't perty'.....I mean-C'mone now!)...and many of us will at least spray paint those exposed fittings to be sure. (I'm sure some detrimental chemicals are found in the spray paint too...but it dries also).....AND, nobody is going to spend the bucks for those nice end caps just to slurp'em with black paint or anything else...they want the ends to be seen! (yes likely some of the liquid material or paint may get on the shielded part of the line somewhere but again it dries) Likely a great idea to warn customers of the chemical affect of this product as precaution......but I promise you many will use something to paint those brass fittings and blend their color to that nice lookin' unit and expensive hose!

Now let me say that dude from the oil field is really shedding some light on the problem I think! REALLY!!!!!

........I warmed the hose ends with a hair drier (not fried) and used a dab of motor oil or WD40 (cant remember) to grease the fittings as most do I suspect........I remember thinking maybe grease would have been better....but the job was done.....so off I went. I believe it would be difficult no matter what was used due to the fittings (but vaseline would likely have been best of all).

....the 2 fittings on the motor were actually the hardest of all because they use more rings on the fitting shafts.......I actually mounted them on the oil filter relocator cap first, then screwed the entire cap (with hoses installed) into the engine mounted filter base............After that, I routed the hoses thru the body and to the rear area where the new oil filter bracket had been installed.....Then, I cut the hoses to the proper length and began the burly task of getting them on as well and in the same fashion.........I mention this to point out that mounting the hoses to the premounted rear bracket leaves just about a handful of hose to grab while forcing the reinforced hose onto the lines and its not likely to actually "crimp" the oil line in a major way......BUT, I still had to force, and twist, and grunt like a HOG to eventually get the hose ends to their proper location......THIS ruff activity is where the inside hoses could have been nicked or damaged or semi crimped though no visible damage was seen on the outside hoses!....This is entirely possible now that we have further information from the oil field fella!!!!!

.....I really think (based on the experience of Mr. Gerald Martins' oil field experience) that we have found the problem!!!!!

....Reduce the extreme stress of installing this particular hose = problem solved......(that's my vote anyway)

.............The only way to do that with certainty is to use a different hose fitting! (I ain't tellin' ya what to do most certainly, but at least I'm telling you how I reached my opinion)

....I too have spent many hours scratch'n about this issue and wondering how this happened at 1300 miles and not sooner!...I think I now know why.

....just remember, if someone sees an oil leak at a fitting in the field they are gonna tighten that clamp no matter what!...and if that "unseen inside hose" is leaking due to a fracture for any reason, then it only worsens the problem .....hense, you get a hose rupture......A hose fitting failure in other words!

....It all fits too well with my series of events that led to the issue.......Also, I submit to you that regarding most all of us who install the reinforced hoses are like "the new guys" in the oil field as Mr. Martin referred to in his statement! (if it can happen, it will happen sooner or later)

......Anyway Kevin, this is what believe......and as long as I don't grenade an engine (which I did not) I'm glad to help.

Cheers!

 

[DK Custom Products]

Hey Randy,

I received the piece of hose you sent in. Thank you!

The rubber is soft and pliable, not dry rotted at all.

It does have some slits in it...this could have come from kinking when sliding it on, or from a too tight hose clamp, or from work at taking it off.

What was most interesting is that the glued on steel mesh is completely gone from the outside of the rubber hose.

Photos below show-

1. The hose with the adhesive & braid intact

2. The hose with the adhesive holding the braid pretty much gone, after just a day of exposure to LET

3. The hose I received with no braid or adhesive left on it.

The photo I do not have here, at the shop, is of some of this hose that has over 30K miles on it. This weekend, at home, I took a section of hose off my Tri-Glide and peeled back the black fiber braid, underneath the adhesive and metal braid were fully intact, just like in the first photo above.

What is perplexing is why your metal braid is no longer on the hose. I know you did not have any part of the LET on the hose, but I have to believe that the off-gassing (which continues indefinitely after the LET is dry) must have had an effect.

In any case, you are set now with the standard rubber hose.

Thank you for helping us in this.

Kevin

 

[Rooster57]

reply to Kevin

Hey Kevin!

.....Thanks for your continued research on this matter! (now that I to have studied that part closer - I couldn't agree more = no dry rot!)....But I just can't go with the fumes thing as a cause for the leak......could I be wrong?=certainly! .....I absolutely believe that over tightening the clamp is involved here (no matter what the reason).

.......Normally, I would never be suggestive about what someone should or shouldn't add to a product as its absolutely none of my business!

.......But on this exact subject, I seem to be up to my "SNOOT" in the topic! ...., so here's what I think:

......I believe (after researching this on the Jagg website) that adding 2 of these straight type fittings and 2 of these 90 degree type fittings to your oil filter relocator kits when using SS Reinforced Hose lines would be a real PLUS!....notice these fitting have only one collar to slide the burly SS reinforced hose over, AND the fittings' colored finish goes nicely with the black finished parts of the oil filter relocator kit .......also, either black or chrome finished oil filters would look good with these fittings too......these nickel brass finished fittings would likely eliminate the need for many of us customers to want to paint or otherwise change the color of the fittings!!!!! (all potential problems go away as the SS reinforced hose would fit easier and look better than the current bright brass fittings me thinks....and because this complex hose would then be tightened on an even surface, one could tell exactly just how tight the hose clamp was)

....and if it even cost a little more - Well, I know I would have gladly paid it!!!!! I think NONE of this would have happened if I'd had these fittings available.

..... (I noticed Jagg says in several places on website :"Over tightening hose clamp may cause oil leak" (but they don't elaborate)

....now they have other type fittings as well of course, but I think the one in the picture below would likely be just whats needed for the SS Reinforced hoses when used with the oil filter relocator kit!



Part # FT-90TD-6X2 Adapter Fitting NPT-1/8in Male to 3/8in Push on Barb 00 degrees-Straight = 2 each for the front engine mount oil cover part.

and:Part#FT-91TD 6x2 Adapter = 2 each for the rear section of the kit connected to oil filter bracket.

***NOTICE this is the type fitting Jagg uses on many of their oil filter relocator type parts as seen below in example pic from their website:



............anyway, these are my thoughts!!!!! (for those of us that just "GOT to have" the SS reinforced hoses!)

....And thanks again Kevin for your time and at least reading my thoughts here!

Cheers!

 

[JoeMustang]

So, as a new TG driver, I'm curious. What are the advantages served by relocating the oil filter, please?

 

[Rooster57]

reply to Joe

Hey Joe!

....the idea of the oil filter relocation kit is to make oil filter changing easier and less messy.....also, it can have a small cooling effect on oil temp it is said.....refer to DKCustomsproducts.com

see item:

[h=2]Cool-n-Clean Oil Filter Relocation Kit For HarleyTrikes [/h]for more detailed description................you decide if its for you or not.

Cheers !!!

 

[DK Custom Products]

Hey Kevin!

.....Thanks for your continued research on this matter! (now that I to have studied that part closer - I couldn't agree more = no dry rot!)....But I just can't go with the fumes thing as a cause for the leak......could I be wrong?=certainly! .....I absolutely believe that over tightening the clamp is involved here (no matter what the reason).

.......Normally, I would never be suggestive about what someone should or shouldn't add to a product as its absolutely none of my business!

.......But on this exact subject, I seem to be up to my "SNOOT" in the topic! ...., so here's what I think:

......I believe (after researching this on the Jagg website) that adding 2 of these straight type fittings and 2 of these 90 degree type fittings to your oil filter relocator kits when using SS Reinforced Hose lines would be a real PLUS!....notice these fitting have only one collar to slide the burly SS reinforced hose over, AND the fittings' colored finish goes nicely with the black finished parts of the oil filter relocator kit .......also, either black or chrome finished oil filters would look good with these fittings too......these nickel brass finished fittings would likely eliminate the need for many of us customers to want to paint or otherwise change the color of the fittings!!!!! (all potential problems go away as the SS reinforced hose would fit easier and look better than the current bright brass fittings me thinks....and because this complex hose would then be tightened on an even surface, one could tell exactly just how tight the hose clamp was)

....and if it even cost a little more - Well, I know I would have gladly paid it!!!!! I think NONE of this would have happened if I'd had these fittings available.

..... (I noticed Jagg says in several places on website :"Over tightening hose clamp may cause oil leak" (but they don't elaborate)

....now they have other type fittings as well of course, but I think the one in the picture below would likely be just whats needed for the SS Reinforced hoses when used with the oil filter relocator kit!

View attachment 56168

Part # FT-90TD-6X2 Adapter Fitting NPT-1/8in Male to 3/8in Push on Barb 00 degrees-Straight = 2 each for the front engine mount oil cover part.

and:View attachment 56182Part#FT-91TD 6x2 Adapter = 2 each for the rear section of the kit connected to oil filter bracket.

***NOTICE this is the type fitting Jagg uses on many of their oil filter relocator type parts as seen below in example pic from their website:

View attachment 56169

............anyway, these are my thoughts!!!!! (for those of us that just "GOT to have" the SS reinforced hoses!)

....And thanks again Kevin for your time and at least reading my thoughts here!

Cheers!

Hey Randy...thank you for your input. We are definitely looking for 1 barb (instead of the 3 barb) fittings to make install of the hose easier.

We cannot use the Jagg fittings. They are not the correct size NPT for our housings.

The reason we went with brass (and the Jagg are nickel plated brass) is that brass is the standard for strength/seal integrity in fittings. However, we have had enough Customers use steel and aluminum fittings that we now feel comfortable, with the low pressure on the HD's, to use either of those. We are currently looking for a supplier of 1 barb fittings in either a steel or black color.

Oh, and I agree, I also believe the leak was from over tightening, possibly combined with a kink from installation difficulty. My thoughts on the off-gassing were more about why did the steel braid separate from the hose.

So, as a new TG driver, I'm curious. What are the advantages served by relocating the oil filter, please?

Like Randy noted...it makes filter changes infinitely easier and less messy, plus it drops oil temps by 8-10 degrees, and the Twin Can & the M8 need all the help they can get at running cooler. See important Report HERE.

Kevin

 

[Rooster57]

reply to Kevin

Hey Kevin!

Well, at least you see where I'm comin' from on those single barb type fittings.....I'm sure you will do your "propers" and decide what (or if) you want to do one way or another.

....(Black fittings?....Hmmm....sounds nice if possible maybe)........I am about to leave this subject forever as I've nearly pulled both hairs out of the top of my head trying to solve this riddle with total clarity!!!! I think we pretty well have resolved the "perfect storm" incident with the fittings re; the SS Reinforced Jagg hoses. This may never happen again! (or?)

I didnt comment on the last post about the inner hose separating from the steel mesh at the hose ending break because the entry was already too long..........But yesterday I went to the garage and pulled out that damaged hose and carefully studied both ends.......on the good end = hose was completely in tack and the rubber hose/mesh adhesive was as it should be (oh, and I noticed a drop of that LET had dropped on the hose section next to the front engine filter mount = it was 1 drop located appx. 10-11" away from the good hose end)......interestingly, the drop had just semi-soaked into the hose and dried as a shiny spot.......their was no hose leak here. (who knows about someday maybe).

....Now, I closely examined the damaged end of the hose of which I sent you the broken tip from..........I cut the cloth and pulled the mesh back and noticed the adhesive had deminished totally to the eye as the entire end was completely oil saturated............When that connection end blew, "Hot Oil" completely soaked out that end of the hose making the adhesive appear to be gone....I mean everything around the break was drenched on all layers.............That hot oil had crawled up that hose at least another inch or better which also showed no apparent adhesive either............after that, I got tired of messin' with the nasty hose and chunked it back on the shelf...........The point I guess I'm makin here is: "That lite adhesive on that inside rubber hose doesnt appear to be anything super strong and likely doesnt need to be anyway."

.............Anyway, let me say this to all that may be reading this: I really believe DKCustoms Products is an outstanding company that handles excellent merchandise!!!!! I have ordered several things from them and always received top quality merchandise and their customer service is unmatched!!!!! (in fact, I'm expecting some more stuff today from them via UPS = can't wait!)

.....yes, I've had an issue with the "OPTIONAL" SS reinforced steel hose connection which is added to the standard oil filter relocation kit at an extra charge..... it ain't due to a quality issue! But rather the type of fitting that makes this special hose difficult to install and easily overtightened (at least that is my opinion)......My unfortunate experience with the hose connections and the SS Reinforced hoses "may" never happen again to anyone..........Obviously, I am "EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS" to recommend the (OPTIONAL) SS Reinforced hose upgrade to the standard oil filter relocation kit at this time pending improved fittings for this PARTICULAR special hose application...........However, the stock original oil filter relocation kits for Harley TriGlides as provided by DKCustoms on their website

@ DKCustomProducts.com ......ie:

Cool-n-Clean Oil Filter Relocation Kit For HarleyTrikes

are high quality and come with long lasting fine standard brass fittings and perfectly thick reinforced rubber (neoprene) hoses.........I know as I have the kit!!!!

....so, If you've been fishin' around and think the standard oil filter relocation kit benefits are enough to justify the costs (as with anything for your TG), then, "Set the hook, and drag it in!"...You will like it!

Cheers!

PS. (That's all I have to say about this matter..........now, I'm off to other things!)

 

[Barry17tg]

Steel braid hose

Wish I had found this post before I bought my Dual Cool Oil Cooler with the Oil Filter Relocation on my 2017 Tri Glide. My kit came with the new style single barb fittings. I bought the steel braided hose because I thought it would be more sturdy and less prone to damage if it rubbed against something sharp. I could only get the hose about half way on the fitting. Had to cut the hose to get it off. I ended up using the standard rubber hose which slipped on easy. I don't recommend the steel braided hose.