Harley Trike Oil Filter Relocation Kit optional braided hose connection failure

[Rooster57]

A few weeks back and 1300 miles ago, I installed this Harley Trike oil filter relocation kit from DKCustom Products and chose NOT to use the standard hose that was shipped with the kit...instead, I also ordered the optional black braided hose as I thought it just looked better.

.....let me say now this oil filter relocation kit as provided by DKCustom Products is a very solid and well built kit. The black reinforced neoprene rubber hose that comes standard with the kit appears more than heavy enough to do the job! (wish I had used this, but I didn't)

............my growling issues are with the black "braided" hose that I had shipped with the kit as optional.

.....to start off with: This braided (interior hose sheathed by an exterior wire mesh and a cloth like outside material) was an absolute "BEAR" to press on to the brass hose fittings.......even after all instructions were followed including swabbing the inside of the hose ends with lite oil and wrapping outside of the hose ends with masking tape) - I also heated the hose ends with a hairdrier and it was still a damn tuff job! ....but, I got it done!..... And it looked very nice, after I used some black colored liquid electrical tape to cover the portions of the brass fittings that remained visually exposed.

...now lets fast forward to 1300 miles later which was 2 days ago when the wife and I suited up and got ready for a ride....I went to inspect the trike and noticed a few drops of oil on the floor just under the oil filter......after inspection, I found the lower hose fitting was leaking a little and could easily be twisted by hand on the fitting so I tightened it accordingly. (I thought it odd as the hoses have never been fooled with since the install, but I'd be watching closely for a while anyway)

...fifty miles later we stopped for a pit stop, I checked the lower hose fitting again and found it was leaking again. So, I broke out the tools and tightened it again, this time I tightened the top fitting a little more as well.

....Then, I cranked up the trike and noticed it was actually blowing oil at the lower hose fitting now! .........So I killed engine, backed off the worm drive clamp and pulled the hose off.

I found the inside part of the braided hose actually broke off on the brass fitting! ....I made the messy field repair, and decided to end the ride and return home for a much closer look at this issue.(while watching my oil pressure gauge constantly).....all went well with no further leaks.....until:

.....I pulled into our driveway and stopped the trike to put it in reverse and back it into the garage as I always do....just as I did, I looked down at the oil filter hoses and saw the top hose fitting suddenly starting to spay oil every where!!! >>>I darted the trike into the garage and killed the motor immediately!

....after close inspection of the top fitting I found that the inside part of the braided line had also cracked almost completely in half.............it did what the lower hose fitting had done 50 miles ago.

.....So, that evening I removed the kit entirely and returned the filter to its standard location at the front of the engine as this whole ordeal kind of "FREAKED me out!" .....If things hadn't have happened exactly as they did - "I could have shelled my engine!!!!!" ....After all was said and done, (though it certainly looked like more) I actually only lost about 2/3 to 1/2 qt. of oil..............oil pressure gauge never showed low .........no evident engine damage....no noises, nothing damaged as I caught the top oil line rupturing as I watched).

.....The next day (yesterday) I drove another 200 miles with oil filter in the standard factory location = engine purring as always and all is just fine...........seems my "Good Luck Gremlin Bell" is working!

.........In the picture below you can see the chunk of the interior hose portion that broke off inside the braided hose at the fitting....I noticed that even though the metal mesh and braided part of the hose gives great exterior protection....the actual inner hose tube (which carries the oil) is much thinner than the standard oil hose that normally comes with the kit!

..........I know, I know,...a zillion of you guys will likely say you've never had any problems with this braided oil line....and maybe I just got it too tight or something....I say "Yeah whatever!"

.......I'm just telling ya'll what happened to me! ......So, would I personally recommend the optional braided oil line? I can only reply, "Would you?"

....In the below pic you can see the broke interior section of the top hose which was put back on the fitting just to show what I'm talking about:





Ride Safe!

[Rooster57]

sorry for the bad spelling.....title is suppose to read:

Harley Trike Oil Filter Relocation Kit optional braided hose connection failure!

....should have kept my glasses on!

[Jack Klarich]

That looks to me like old dried out brittle hose

That could explain why it was so hard to put on the fitting?

I hate to say it but things like this do happen

Glad your engine did not grenade on you

[1dn5up]

Installed the kit this winter with the SS braided line. 86th the finishers as they didn’t fit. Rubber lines seemed fine and flexible, function not fashion!

Not to knock DK , but I don’t think the finishers are the same as for branded lines. Done this b4 with no struggle. They fit fine on hose only , just a tiney mm more for branded. Also looks like the line you got was dry rotted to brake like that. Over tightening would not do that. Hard to believe the manufacturers would use one size finisher for the two diferent size lines !

[DK Custom Products]

Randy,

I am so sorry you had this experience. As noted in the instructions, the black braided hose is a VERY TIGHT fit and it is recommended to soak the ends in hot water to soften them up. Even then, it is a bear to get them on the fittings...I know, I have the same line on my Tri-Glide!

I have never used liquid electrical tape, so I don't know if there was some un-desirable reaction between it and the hose, or if it was a simple matter of hose clamp torque, or possibly a bad piece of hose...but that hose should not have done that!

The good news is that you can use the kit with the regular line without concern. The way the oiling system works on Harley's (dry sump) you would have to lose 2-3 quarts before any possibility of the engine getting less oil than needed. If you were to lose a connection, whether on an oil filter relo, or a factory oil cooler, you will know way before you lost that much oil, and be able to pull over and stop.

Exposed oil lines have been used by the factory on HD's for decades, and I've never heard of engine damage occurring as a result of one failing...and they do fail...not often, but it does happen.

The other thing to be aware of with braided hose (for others reading, or if you make a go of it again with any type of braided hose), the braid of the hose looks good, but is actually abrasive in nature. If you have it rubbing against a part of the bike, or two braided hoses rubbing against each other, it will wear thru the braided sheath fairly quickly.

Again, I am very sorry you had this hassle with the filter relo. Please feel free to contact us, we will get you set up with whatever components you need. I am also going to expand our instructions to include torque specs on the hose clamps, along with some other info to help others avoid a similar interruption of their ride.



Man, this is the last thing we want to ever see with any of our parts...and especially on a part like this that is designed to make thing More hassle free.

Give us a call or email at your convenience.

Kevin

[Freewheeling Ron]

Way to be on top of things Rooster. That could have not turned out well at all. I installed the relocation kit and used the rubber lines. I did that just before winter so haven't ridden it but about 20 miles. Glad I didn't go with the braided lines.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

sorry for the bad spelling.....title is suppose to read:

Harley Trike Oil Filter Relocation Kit optional braided hose connection failure!

....should have kept my glasses on!

Fixed your title.

[consitter]

Glad to know that no damage to your bike happened as a result of the failure. I also notice that Kevin from DK Customs answered here on the forum within an hour apologizing for the failure, being the great guy and business owner he is....

[Rooster57]

Thank you Fuzzy!!!!!!

[Rooster57]

Hey 1dn5up,

......Maybe it was dry rot...who knows.........but I totally agree that over tightening clamp should not have caused this failure.

......I just didn't want to say it because I might be wrong as I've never used this exact type of line before..........funny that it held just fine for 1300 miles before malfunction....so, I really don't know what to think...I only know that I won't use it again!....HELL NO!

Cheers!

[Rooster57]

Hey Ron!

......The actual kit parts are very solid and mount up sturdy!

.....I feel quite confident that the standard rubber hose line sent with kit will perform fine...........just be sure your parts are mounted firm (not Neanderthal cave man tight)....but firm. These parts will have "mucho" vibrations over time.

....just keep an eye on all parts mounted while you run some miles up on the unit........ until you trust it.

.......and still look it over often anyway before you ride as the unexpected is always possible!!!! (that's the only thing that saved my ass during this ordeal)

......just like ole' Reagan said years ago, "Trust but verify!"

Cheers!

[1dn5up]

After the aux oil cooler install, a leak developed at a clamp, but just had to snug it up a bit after it seated. Also I put a swipe of grease on the spaded fittings , the lines fit fine . Fingers crossed 🤞 Also tie wraped the filter lines everyware possible so there secure and don’t shake, looks like a plumbing nightmare but the lines ain’t going to shake nor rub on each other. If I remember, next time at the shop, I’ll take some pix.

[Rooster57]

Thank for your reply Kevin!

.......Its all cool!!!!!

..........I just chalk it up as a lesson learned...no refund or parts or anything is necessary.......but thank you for the offer to make things right.

...I am relieved to know about the oil flow as you stated.....................This line was gushing oil for about 15-20 seconds as I quickly backed it into the garage and cut the engine off. .............My biggest concern was possible engine damage due to a "breach in the oil flow" even though no oil pressure was lost according to the gauge during this brief time span.....but no damage was done....besides, this 20w-50w oil is extremely heavy and was fresh.... Would have certainly stayed on the parts for this brief time period anyway I believe.....the engine sound was never stressed....and never had pinging sound either (I do believe it would have if it was starved for oil during this brief time)

...........After I replaced the oil filter to the original location and drove it 200 miles the next day, the engine was just fine and happy! ..all is well (but that was certainly a close call)

......I'm not an expert on motorcycles, but I was a young lad once and back then we all had to work on our engines constantly to keep'em running! In those days we didn't have any money and HAD to drive older cars and there was always something going out on those old late '50s and '60s vehicles....I've done 3 or 4 short block engine overhauls and yes I've even blown an engine or 2 in my day ...so, I know what a seized engine sounds like as it blows for sure! ( I bet some of these readers know exactly what I'm talking about too as I remember the old days)

....The black liquid tape was just painted on the brass fittings just to cover the exposed brass and make them black in color to match the rest of the unit colors...didn't use on the actual hose coupling....(it worked quite well actually)...........better than paint.

....Here's the thing Kevin, that braided line is hard to use at best as you know.....and I say the brass fittings are just a wee bit too large for this type hose! (its ok for the regular rubber hose as its softer and stretches easier)...and the actual hose inside the braided cover shield is 1/2 the thickness of the standard rubber hose....and that thinner inside hose is what carries the oil and bears the oil pressure..........seems to me that the outside mesh braided part of the hose is just for protection.

....now it could be that the inside hose end is weakened by the stress of the struggle to mount all the way down on to the brass fitting.....I don't know.

....when I mounted the hoses on the rear fittings, I left enough slack in the lines to avoid any tension stress of the hoses during any vibrations of the fixtures movement while the vehicle moved...............when the malfunction happened, all was just as it was at install and the lines were not any tighter and still had the same slack.....everything looked perfect.

...as to the hand torque on the worm drive clamps ....I tightened them firmly.....but only enough to stop the hoses from rotating on the fittings.....shouldn't have been too much...but again, who knows.

.........what I find extremely interesting is I went 1300 miles with no problem before the incident.....that's the scary part!

.....I must say when the ordeal was over, this reminded me of those ultra lite water hoses we used to see on the tv commercials constantly....They advertised how tuff and lite weight they were....they too were made of some type of vinyl hose inside a protective outside covered hose.........I went thru 4 of them in one season!....yeah, they were strong and lite weight....but the heat from the sun caused all of mine to leak as the inside hose always blistered near the hose fitting! ....Made in China.

...Kevin, I understand that your the expert here and certainly not me...........And I know you use this braided hose on your on motorcycle too and haven't had this type of issue with it......but, all I can say (and I say this with all due respect) = "Watch your ass, my brother and keep an eye on those hoses!"

Ride safe!

[Mykneesbehurtin]

I installed the DK relocation kit on my 17,I used the standard oil line supplied with the kit but i covered it with a carbon fiber SS wire wrapped covering to help eliminate any chaffing. 4000 miles later and all is good.

[DK Custom Products]

Update-

For over 7 of the last 20 hours I have been studying the issue Randy had, and our components in general.

We are obsessive about the quality and reliability of our parts, doing extensive research & testing before releasing them.

When I read about Randy's experience, I immediately got with Devin, began reading, measuring and testing.

To have one of our parts cause a problem for the rider, passenger or the bike is unacceptable to us.

I am not finished with all the testing yet, but have learned quite a bit, which I am sharing below.

(apologies in advance for this being so long, but I suspect that many will be interested in the details)

Short Version:

The black braided hose, that is optional with our kits, is the same hose used by Jagg Oil Coolers on tens of thousands of oil coolers without problems.

This same hose, when new, looks completely different than regular hose because of the glue used between the steel braid and the fiber braid. This could cause some photos of it to look like the hose is dry rotted when it is brand new. See photo below.

Permatex Liquid Electrical Tape contains Xylene, methyl ethyl ketone & acetone. All 3 of these chemicals are rated as destructive to nitrile oil/gas lines. Even the smallest amount touching the hose will destroy it.

Over tightening (and under tightening) hose clamps is very easy to do, and our instructions do not address this.

Our instructions will be updated over the next couple of days to reflect more complete do's and don'ts.

Full Details:

My first look was to the fiber braided hose. I confirmed that it is the same hose used on 10's of thousands of Jagg oil coolers for many years without problem. It is also the hose used by a few hundred of our Customers on Oil Coolers, Oil Filter Relo's and External Breather Systems. It is a quality hose. We purchase it directly from Jagg.

The hose is a nitrile rubber (same as the standard hose and the SS braided hose) that has a metal sheath, then some adhesive, then the black fiber braid. With the black fiber braid pulled away, it looks sort of nasty (it's the adhesive over the metal sheath).



Also, because of the adhesive, it is less flexible when manipulating it.

The wall of the standard nitrile hose and the SS braided is 1/8" thick. The Black braided is 3/32, so that is 1/32 more narrow, but again this hose is proven with millions and millions of miles.

The next thing I looked at was the size of the barbs.

The barbs on our kits are 4/1000" larger than the barbs on all the Jagg and Harley oil coolers. BUT, the difference is that we decided to go with a triple barb fitting. This results in the hose being 3x's as difficult to slip onto the fitting. We thought we were being extra safe with that, but obviously it is not needed, and only make installation a bit more tedious. We will probably change that.

Along with the black braided hose being less flexible, due to the adhesive, it is also less "stretchy", making it more difficult to slide over 1 barb, let alone 3.

The next thing I looked at was Liquid Electrical Tape (LET). I did not even know such a thing existed. Devin was aware of it, but had never used it.

So I went and purchased some at Auto-Zone. Permatex brand was all they had. Upon reading the label I saw it contained Xylene, methyl ethyl ketone & acetone.

I then went and researched nitrile rubber hose and those chemicals. Found out that each one of those chemicals is rated as destructive to the hose. Even the off-gassing from those chemicals will cause the hose to deteriorate.

I also have applied a very small amount of the LET to each of the different hoses we have. Tomorrow I am going to look at the hoses to see if/how much they are compromised.



The next thing I looked at was hose clamp torque.

The correct torque for new hose is 8 inch-lbs (+- 2). The correct retightening torque is 6 inch-lbs (+-2).

The reality is that not many of us have a torque wrench that is accurate down at those low settings. What has always worked for us is to tighten them until the clamp barely starts to compress the rubber...never so much that the edge of the rubber mushrooms above the edge of the clamp.

The safest way is to lightly tighten the clamp, only enough that the hose will not slide off the barb. Start the engine and let it idle.

Check all oil hose connections for any leakage. Tighten any hose clamps that may be leaking by 1/3 of a turn. Recheck, and repeat if needed.

NOTE: Over-tightened hose clamps may cut into oil lines and cause oil leaks.

NONE of the info on hose clamp tightening is in our instructions.

The net result of the research is that our kits are good, but we absolutely need to update our instructions to stay away from any chemicals that may damage the hose, and to include detailed instructions on hose clamp tightening procedures.

We probably will go to 1 barb fittings, simply to make installation easier.

Regarding Randy's experience, it appears to have been the "perfect storm", where a confluence of the worst possible scenario's all played out to make a very unsatisfactory experience with our Optional Braided Hose.

1. Hose difficult to put on because of nature of fiber braided hose, with 3 barb fittings instead of 1 barb, heated with hair dryer instead of hot water.

2. A small amount of the LET touching, or at least off-gassing onto the hose, resulting in an accelerated deterioration of the hose.

3. As the hose deteriorated, the hose clamp became less tight, resulting in leaking. Common sense was to tighten the hose clamps. Doing so caused the clamps to further damage the already deteriorated hose, causing them to completely fail.

Again, my deepest apologies, AND thanks, for bringing this to our attention. The result will be a vast improvement in our instructions, and probably a bit easier installation process.

Randy, please, if you have time, contact us by phone or email. I would like to get the pieces of hose that you have for further evaluation. Also, we do want to make up for the hassle you have experienced.

The nice thing to be aware of, over the decades many Touring Models came from the factory with oil coolers located behind the front wheel. These coolers use the same nitrile rubber hoses. When the hoses fail (mostly due to road debris due to it being out front, and right behind the front tire) engines do not grenade.

This is because the HD V-twin is a dry-sump...it will only lose oil pressure once the oil tank is empty. This means around 3 quarts has to leak out before there is any loss of oil pressure...and even then, after losing 3 or more quarts, for several more seconds the engine will still have the same amount of oil as when it first starts up. So unlike a typical car or motorcycle engine, there is quite a lag between an oil leak and any loss of oiling pressure on an HD.

Final note: We know the optional hose finishers are a tight fit, and difficult to install. We have looked previously for easier to install finishers. We are going to look again.

Kevin

[1dn5up]

All I can say is thank you, any one else would say We will Look Into it ,and never hear again ! That’s the way to do business . Mom n pop business is the best . Again thank you. Your a true gentleman .

[rhino 2]

Even though i don't have the oil filter your findings were an education, On a few things, Especially on liquid electrical tape....

Great post guys..........

[Jack Klarich]

Good info and timely response

Unlike some , Thanks Kevin

[Rooster57]

Hey Kevin!

Really - Thanks again for your statement: "Randy, please, if you have time, contact us by phone or email. I would like to get the pieces of hose that you have for further evaluation. Also, we do want to make up for the hassle you have experienced."

... my brother I am in no way seeking any compensation....not even a refund of any kind.....I do the motorcycling thing for a hobby and fun only....and I like all (well most) of the people that share my passion and interests! ......When I find something that's "GREAT," I like to share my experience with anyone that's interested; when I find a "PROBLEM," well, I share that too............I'm new to motorcycling and there are many out here who are also and have the same questions as I do...I see them all the time.

....Your products are well built and your customer service is excellent! ...and that

Combo Package - 14" Harley Trike Series Shocks™ & Comfort Lift™ Pro-Action

of yours should be on all Harley trikes! I really like it that well!!!!! (notice I copied the name from your website so I wouldn't accidentally misname them again)

..and I'm still using your recleanable "Outlaw Oil Filter" .....Me likes!



......also, I cannot be sure that this failure actually "WAS" the braided hose's fault .... but more likely a combination of things such as "fitting a little to large and too many barb rings for this type of hose", and maybe overtightening on my part.....I just don't know.



......now, your chemical product evaluation of the liquid tape was very informative! (that is the exact stuff in your photo that I used AND I bought it at Autozone as well). Yes, I suppose it could eventually damage the chemical composite of the hose if it were left soaking in it or something.....but this stuff dries to a soft plastic coating reasonably fast which would diminish the liquid solvent state of the product and eliminate the fumes...........AND, I only painted the exposed brass fittings after the hoses and caps were installed! None of that stuff got even near the interior of the hose end/worm clamped area......so, I understand what your saying but I just don't think it applies here exactly.

......Let me also say: Due to the decorative end cap, one cannot actually see the worm clamp as it tightens on the multilayered braided hose....therefore you must rely on "Feel only" as you tighten the clamp...........and if you notice a leak at the fitting while "In the field"..... well all bets are off and you'll tighten the crap out of it to stop the leak!!!! ...so, if the interior hose end was leaking due to a crack or lesion in interior hose -You cannot see it! ...so your gonna tighten the hose even more as you have to assume the clamp "just needed tightening."....in fact you could actually be damaging the hose end even more! I suspect that's what happened to me......and if so, could happen again.

.........the thing thats got me stumped is why did it happen after 1300 miles.......guess it was just its time.

..........Kevin I really think that a hose like this braided hose would be better suited to a fitting such as the type seen in the auto world ....the type that has a straight shaft with a mushroomed collar at the end (I dont know what its called) ...but you know, the type of fitting that looks like the end of power steering or transmission lines in the old cars.....or something that emulates this design......It would make it mucho easier to mount the braided line and would then give an even surface for the clamp to press the hose to and would make it reliable for you to recommend exact torque values to the connection! ..........I can't imagine where to find it though..............Anyway, that's just my opinion.

.........I only have the one piece of broken hose end which has now been handled, pulled, and torn even more while I examined it... the other hose end now lays in an obscured parking lot 50 miles away!

But, I will send it to you in todays mail for your examination.............And I thank you again for giving this your concern!

PS......Painting those brass fittings with the black liquid electrical tape juice was not my original idea....I read someone else on the net state he did it to the brass fittings on the oil filter relocation kit.......so, others are using this stuff to give a shiny black finish to those brass fittings also.

Cheers!

[DK Custom Products]

Randy,

Thank you for sending what you have in....I, by nature and by vocation, am very curious. I always want to understand and grow my knowledge base, so having that little piece of hose will help there.

Those chemicals, via off-gassing, or direct contact are very damaging to Nitrile rubber hose (which is what is used on HD's for oil). Below is a very informative link with a Rubber Chemical Resistance Chart.

http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart

It is a bit disconcerting to hear that others have used the same thing....hopefully they will see this information and replace any hose that has been near these chemicals.

You are correct about it being easier to use a one barb (rounded) fitting instead of a 3 barb fitting, and we will be migrating to that.

Also, you make a very good point about using hose finishers...no way to see how tight the clamp is on the hose! Catch-22.

Last night I received the following email from somebody that read this post. It has some really good info in it that I will be including in our instructions-

.

"I was reading on trike talk about the fella that had a failure with your

braided hose on his filter relocation. He mentioned that he had trouble

sliding it over the barbed fittings.

I worked in the oil patch before retiring, we used the exact same hose that you and Jagg use.

many times we had trouble with it when the new guys tried to install it on our

chemical pumps. they would push too hard on it causing it to bend

sharply on the end of the fitting which in turn cut the hose on the

inside this would not be noticed for a while, but as the pump turned on

and off a few times the cut got bigger from the pulsation of the pump

and chemical would leak all over the box the pump was in.

We solved the problem by making sure the hose was lubricated with a tiny bit of

Vaseline inside the hose and then the hose was pushed on straight. When

this was done we had no more problems with leakage

Hope this helps you in some small way



Gerald Martin"

.

Not saying this is what happened in your situation, but because of your post we are learning more, and being able to expand our information in the instructions to help others.

Thank you!

I will post more here, after dissecting the hose I'm experimenting with, later today or tomorrow.

Kevin