2018 Tri Glide needs performance help

[Teufelhunde]

Ok, here's the deal.......Last week traded in the 17 SGS for a 18 Tri Glide to allow the wife with arthritis in her hips to ride with me more than once a year.......

She loves the ride, and I will adjust to three wheels once I get comfortable with turning it......problem is, it is a gutless wonder.....We have a pretty steep hill coming out of Phoenix to get home and it will go 75 up that hill, but NOT ONE SINGLE SOLITARY MPH MORE........It is totally tapped out keeping up with traffic.......

When I look at the Harley website, I see that they don't list a stage II or III kit for the trikes, even though it is the same motor as the Ultra Limited's that they do list those kits for.

I plan on going to the dealer tomorrow to ask if they can install a stage II or III on a trike, and if Harley will warranty it if installed in the first 60 days, but thought I should ask the community as well. Opinions? Verified experience?

TIA for the replies

Lon

 

[rhino 2]

Lon, I have a 17 Tri-Glide,[Completely stock] And on this one road Rt 15 in North Jersey theres a 4 mile up grade 18 hundred feet to the top and in 6Th i can go 80 to 85, with more to go till i chicken out.[55 mile zone].. Maybe it isn't set up right and the dealer can fix it..:Shrug:

 

[MDO]

I have a few questions.

How many miles on your 2018? Is it even broke in yet?

You mention stage 2 & 3, does that mean stage 1 is done already?

Do you know that your 107M8 can be upgraded to a 114?

Why don't you tell us a little more about your particulars on your TG.

I have a 2017 Freewheeler & installing a K&N air filter & an external breather made a noticeable difference on my 107.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I would definitely have a chat with your dealer

Have his dyno guy ride your trike and hook it up to the scanner

No reason why your trike is struggling in stock form

A stage 1 set up from the dealer may help, BUT the tuning will still be weak thanks to the deal HD made with the EPA

It will keep your warranty intact tho

Now, if you do not care about warranty get up with Kevin here for ideas, you will NOT be disappointed

 

[DK Custom Products]

Sounds like something is wrong with it...I would get it checked out at the Dealership.

Once you do get it running like it should, if you do decide to do a Stage I...

Most Stage I's do not give you anywhere near the bump in power that the could. This is because Not All Stage I's are the same.

Here is a LINK to an overview of the differences between a typical Stage I and a Good Stage I.

Almost every bike/trike that runs one of our Stage I kits will out-perform a typical Stage II, most Stage III's and come very close to most Stage IV's. Plus you will have spent less $, have a more reliable engine, and less likely to have warranty issues.

Besides a Stage I, there are also other things you can do to increase your Power, things that will also make the Trike last longer, and be more comfortable to ride.

Check out the "Little Known" Performance Mods at this LINK.

Kevin

 

[Teufelhunde]

Thanks for the replies. Thinking more on it, I'm guessing that my perception of gutless wonder is likely related to the fact that I just traded in my Street Glide that ran so well. I do have a Stage one scheduled for install at the 1000 mile service and maybe that will make enough of a difference..

Lon

 

[RAHRAHJR]

Talk with the dealer first. Yes the cams etc will fit our trikes, but HD will not warranty the upgrade and will void your existing warranty if done anyway. I looked into it already at my dealer. But you can do a stage I upgrade. Also be careful, if you swap out the head pipes, they may also void the warranty. I have a full head pipe that is decatted and ceramic coated but wont use because of the warranty issues.

 

[Old Road Dog]

Ok, here's the deal.......Last week traded in the 17 SGS for a 18 Tri Glide to allow the wife with arthritis in her hips to ride with me more than once a year.......

She loves the ride, and I will adjust to three wheels once I get comfortable with turning it......problem is, it is a gutless wonder.....We have a pretty steep hill coming out of Phoenix to get home and it will go 75 up that hill, but NOT ONE SINGLE SOLITARY MPH MORE........It is totally tapped out keeping up with traffic.......

When I look at the Harley website, I see that they don't list a stage II or III kit for the trikes, even though it is the same motor as the Ultra Limited's that they do list those kits for.

I plan on going to the dealer tomorrow to ask if they can install a stage II or III on a trike, and if Harley will warranty it if installed in the first 60 days, but thought I should ask the community as well. Opinions? Verified experience?

TIA for the replies

Lon

Devil Dog did you follow the break in procedure per the manual?

 

[Teufelhunde]

Went out and took that hill again today. Today riding solo (other day momma was on the back), and no wind, (the other day the wind was blowing pretty good), and while it is a bit underpowered, I think maybe not as bad as I thought. Got a stage one scheduled, will re-evaluate after that.

I did get to talk to the service writer at the dealership and he said they can't figure out why Harley doesn't list stage 2-4 kits for the trikes, and while he agreed that they could install them and it would work, he also said that he doubts Harley would warranty the engine after doing that.

YMMV

Lon

p.s. To those replies concerned with break in. Yes I did do a proper break in, but not per the manual. Harley is waaaay over cautious with their break in. If it doesn't happen in 50 miles, it's not gonna happen.......JMHO

 

[7125]

2018 tri glide

HI pickup mine 6 weeks ago and there is more power there then you need I ride 2 up most of the time no problem 80 /90

now saying that my bike is at dealer with 1300 miles on it sumping problem oil pump lost power Friday on the way home oil burned 4/6 weeks the dealer waiting Harley to ok new motor this bike has the new oil pump in it already so there could be a different problem your looking at

they removed 3 1/2 qts of oil out of crank sensor CKP

 

[Old Road Dog]

p.s. To those replies concerned with break in. Yes I did do a proper break in, but not per the manual. Harley is waaaay over cautious with their break in. If it doesn't happen in 50 miles, it's not gonna happen.......JMHO[/QUOTE] Oh no.Ive thrown my life away.From the late panhead era to the M8 I've always broken in my motor the way the engineers who designed it recommended. Stupid!Stupid!Stupid!.All I needed to do was follow this brilliant 50 mile break in and I could have saved myself all that mental anguish. I'm calling S&S in the morning.They have an even more detailed break in for their motors.How stupid of them.

 

[Jack Klarich]

p.s. To those replies concerned with break in. Yes I did do a proper break in, but not per the manual. Harley is waaaay over cautious with their break in. If it doesn't happen in 50 miles, it's not gonna happen.......JMHO

Oh no.Ive thrown my life away.From the late panhead era to the M8 I've always broken in my motor the way the engineers who designed it recommended. Stupid!Stupid!Stupid!.All I needed to do was follow this brilliant 50 mile break in and I could have saved myself all that mental anguish. I'm calling S&S in the morning.They have an even more detailed break in for their motors.How stupid of them.[/QUOTE]

Read here

Below the correct procedure to break-in your engine

. 1- Initial start up. Run engine approximately one minute at 1250-1750 rpm. DO NOT crack throttle or subject to any loads during this period as head gaskets are susceptible to failure at this time. During this time, check to see that oil pressure is normal, that oil is returning the oil tank, and that no leaks exist.

2. Shut off engine and thoroughly check for any leaks or other problems. Let engine cool to the touch.

3.. After engine has cooled, start up again and allow the motor to build some heat. Engine should be run no longer than three to four minutes. When the cylinders become warm/ hot to the touch (approximately 150°) shut the motor down and let it cool to room temp. Follow the same cautions as for the initial start-up, and continue to watch for problems.

4. Repeat this procedure 3 or 4 times. Each successive time it should take slightly longer to warm up and you can increase the temp slightly each time (+10°). You can be more liberal each time with the rpm, gently vary rpm continuously from idle up to 2500 rpm in the final cycle. Don’t be too concerned with final carb settings at this time because idle speed and mixture cannot be correctly set until the motor reaches full operating temperature. The motor should not reach that temperature during these cycles. Do not allow engine temperature to become excessive. After the motor has cooled to room temperature for the final time you are ready to start the 1000 mile engine break-in process.

5. The first 50 miles are most critical for new rings and piston break-in. Engine damage is most likely to occur during this period. Keep heat down by not exceeding 2500 rpm. Avoid lugging the motor, riding in hot weather or in traffic. Vary the engine speed. Do not lug the engine. We recommend changing the oil at 50 miles.

6. The next 500 miles should be spent running engine no faster than 3500 rpm or 60 mph. Avoid continuous steady speeds, and do not lug the engine. Vary engine rpm. We recommend changing the oil a gain at 500 miles. 

CAUTION: Lugging or running engine prematurely at sustained high rpm may result in damage to pistons and other engine components. S&S voids it’s guarantee if engine is not broken in properly.

7. For the balance of the first 1000 miles the motor can be run in a normal but conservative manner. You can be more liberal with the rpm range and motorcycle can be operated at normal highway speeds. Avoid overheating or putting any hard strain on the engine: no drag racing, dyno runs, excessive speed, trailer towing or sidecar operation.

8. After 1000 miles, verify carburetor jetting and adjustment. Change the engine oil. Motorcycle can now be operated normally.

 

[Teufelhunde]

p.s. To those replies concerned with break in. Yes I did do a proper break in, but not per the manual. Harley is waaaay over cautious with their break in. If it doesn't happen in 50 miles, it's not gonna happen.......JMHO

Oh no.Ive thrown my life away.From the late panhead era to the M8 I've always broken in my motor the way the engineers who designed it recommended. Stupid!Stupid!Stupid!.All I needed to do was follow this brilliant 50 mile break in and I could have saved myself all that mental anguish. I'm calling S&S in the morning.They have an even more detailed break in for their motors.How stupid of them.[/QUOTE]

I knew someone would take offense to that.......like I said JMHO........I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again. BTW Most engine builders break their motors in on the dyno, so I'm curious, do they sit on the dyno for 3 days, keeping the RPM's under 3000 and varying the engine speed until they hit the 1000 mile mark?

Lon

 

[Jack Klarich]

Oh no.Ive thrown my life away.From the late panhead era to the M8 I've always broken in my motor the way the engineers who designed it recommended. Stupid!Stupid!Stupid!.All I needed to do was follow this brilliant 50 mile break in and I could have saved myself all that mental anguish. I'm calling S&S in the morning.They have an even more detailed break in for their motors.How stupid of them.

I knew someone would take offense to that.......like I said JMHO........I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again. BTW Most engine builders break their motors in on the dyno, so I'm curious, do they sit on the dyno for 3 days, keeping the RPM's under 3000 and varying the engine speed until they hit the 1000 mile mark?

Lon[/QUOTE]

Below the correct procedure to break-in your engine

. 1- Initial start up. Run engine approximately one minute at 1250-1750 rpm. DO NOT crack throttle or subject to any loads during this period as head gaskets are susceptible to failure at this time. During this time, check to see that oil pressure is normal, that oil is returning the oil tank, and that no leaks exist.

2. Shut off engine and thoroughly check for any leaks or other problems. Let engine cool to the touch.

3.. After engine has cooled, start up again and allow the motor to build some heat. Engine should be run no longer than three to four minutes. When the cylinders become warm/ hot to the touch (approximately 150°) shut the motor down and let it cool to room temp. Follow the same cautions as for the initial start-up, and continue to watch for problems.

4. Repeat this procedure 3 or 4 times. Each successive time it should take slightly longer to warm up and you can increase the temp slightly each time (+10°). You can be more liberal each time with the rpm, gently vary rpm continuously from idle up to 2500 rpm in the final cycle. Don’t be too concerned with final carb settings at this time because idle speed and mixture cannot be correctly set until the motor reaches full operating temperature. The motor should not reach that temperature during these cycles. Do not allow engine temperature to become excessive. After the motor has cooled to room temperature for the final time you are ready to start the 1000 mile engine break-in process.

5. The first 50 miles are most critical for new rings and piston break-in. Engine damage is most likely to occur during this period. Keep heat down by not exceeding 2500 rpm. Avoid lugging the motor, riding in hot weather or in traffic. Vary the engine speed. Do not lug the engine. We recommend changing the oil at 50 miles.

6. The next 500 miles should be spent running engine no faster than 3500 rpm or 60 mph. Avoid continuous steady speeds, and do not lug the engine. Vary engine rpm. We recommend changing the oil a gain at 500 miles. 

CAUTION: Lugging or running engine prematurely at sustained high rpm may result in damage to pistons and other engine components. S&S voids it’s guarantee if engine is not broken in properly.

7. For the balance of the first 1000 miles the motor can be run in a normal but conservative manner. You can be more liberal with the rpm range and motorcycle can be operated at normal highway speeds. Avoid overheating or putting any hard strain on the engine: no drag racing, dyno runs, excessive speed, trailer towing or sidecar operation.

8. After 1000 miles, verify carburetor jetting and adjustment. Change the engine oil. Motorcycle can now be operated normally.

 

[Teufelhunde]

I knew someone would take offense to that.......like I said JMHO........I've been wrong before and I'm sure I'll be wrong again. BTW Most engine builders break their motors in on the dyno, so I'm curious, do they sit on the dyno for 3 days, keeping the RPM's under 3000 and varying the engine speed until they hit the 1000 mile mark?

Lon

Below the correct procedure to break-in your engine

. 1- Initial start up. Run engine approximately one minute at 1250-1750 rpm. DO NOT crack throttle or subject to any loads during this period as head gaskets are susceptible to failure at this time. During this time, check to see that oil pressure is normal, that oil is returning the oil tank, and that no leaks exist.

2. Shut off engine and thoroughly check for any leaks or other problems. Let engine cool to the touch.

3.. After engine has cooled, start up again and allow the motor to build some heat. Engine should be run no longer than three to four minutes. When the cylinders become warm/ hot to the touch (approximately 150°) shut the motor down and let it cool to room temp. Follow the same cautions as for the initial start-up, and continue to watch for problems.

4. Repeat this procedure 3 or 4 times. Each successive time it should take slightly longer to warm up and you can increase the temp slightly each time (+10°). You can be more liberal each time with the rpm, gently vary rpm continuously from idle up to 2500 rpm in the final cycle. Don’t be too concerned with final carb settings at this time because idle speed and mixture cannot be correctly set until the motor reaches full operating temperature. The motor should not reach that temperature during these cycles. Do not allow engine temperature to become excessive. After the motor has cooled to room temperature for the final time you are ready to start the 1000 mile engine break-in process.

5. The first 50 miles are most critical for new rings and piston break-in. Engine damage is most likely to occur during this period. Keep heat down by not exceeding 2500 rpm. Avoid lugging the motor, riding in hot weather or in traffic. Vary the engine speed. Do not lug the engine. We recommend changing the oil at 50 miles.

6. The next 500 miles should be spent running engine no faster than 3500 rpm or 60 mph. Avoid continuous steady speeds, and do not lug the engine. Vary engine rpm. We recommend changing the oil a gain at 500 miles. 

CAUTION: Lugging or running engine prematurely at sustained high rpm may result in damage to pistons and other engine components. S&S voids it’s guarantee if engine is not broken in properly.

7. For the balance of the first 1000 miles the motor can be run in a normal but conservative manner. You can be more liberal with the rpm range and motorcycle can be operated at normal highway speeds. Avoid overheating or putting any hard strain on the engine: no drag racing, dyno runs, excessive speed, trailer towing or sidecar operation.

8. After 1000 miles, verify carburetor jetting and adjustment. Change the engine oil. Motorcycle can now be operated normally.[/QUOTE]

At what point on the assembly line does Harley (or any other vehicle maker) perform those heat cycles? Or is it the service department responsibility to do them prior to delivery?

Inquiring minds want to know.....

 

[Jack Klarich]

Lon, HD does NOT hot fire the engines any more

They spin them up with an Electric Wrench and make checks for oiling system and so on

Any miles on a new bike would be from dealer prep and test rides

Unlike before when they spent run in time on a hot fire run with fuel

 

[Teufelhunde]

Lon, HD does NOT hot fire the engines any more

They spin them up with an Electric Wrench and make checks for oiling system and so on

Any miles on a new bike would be from dealer prep and test rides

Unlike before when they spent run in time on a hot fire run with fuel

That's my point precisely. No dealership anywhere is going to allow a tech to take the time to do all of those heat cycles and cooldowns. So the "proper break in" that you listed is not being done on any new bike unless you order a new one and insure that the dealership doesn't even start it up before you take it home....

 

[Teufelhunde]

Wow this went into left field

Well, this certainly got a bit off topic. Sorry folks, I should know better than to post something that might offend someone, and I should REALLY know better than to respond to that offense.

My bad and I'm done..

Lon

p.s. mods a lock may be in order

 

[Jack Klarich]

Well, this certainly got a bit off topic. Sorry folks, I should know better than to post something that might offend someone, and I should REALLY know better than to respond to that offense.

My bad and I'm done..

Lon

p.s. mods a lock may be in order

I think you have legitimate concerns here and I doubt anyone is getting mad over this

 

[Teufelhunde]

I think you have legitimate concerns here and I doubt anyone is getting mad over this

(Yes)