Freewheeler "Chopper" Project

[Free Bird]

Hey Free Bird, any updates on the build? The painting should be close to done. Any news on the front end.

My bike is still "neck-ed" as some like to say. All stripped down and waiting for paint. The crated parts were shipped out in early December via Estes Transport to South Carolina... via Phoenix, Arizona! Three weeks en route to the painter. So I sorta lost my place in line. No hard feelings with the painters, lots of frustration with Estes. It is a long story, but the short version is Estes Traiffic planner got The crates cross-docked on the wrong truck and they went West.... once started... no stopping until it caught an East bound route. They arrived safely..but very late. So early February is the estimate for paint completion now and I am flying out to Charlotte and driving the parts back myself (no kidding).

The front end is a worse tale. I cannot go into detail as there is a conflict underway that won't allow detailed discussion but.... Changes made by the machinist resulted in it not fitting the trike. VERY SUPER EXTRAORDINARILY KINDA LIKE GETTING IT CAUGHT IN YOUR ZIPPER FRUSTRATING . But the issue is getting worked out....

And now here's something you'll really like.....

I have a new front end partner and this is what we are doing....



Sort of back to the original plan for a springer with better engineering support. Here (as always) is the bad photoshop of the concept



We are building the trees in Cad and 3-D Printing them for trial fitment and mock up on the bike.



The trees will be at zero rake to the fork neck and we will achieve necessary rake and trail through the rocker design. Hoping for a product ready for the chrome platers in Mid- to Late February. But, as Ole Paul Mason used to say..... "We will finish no Chopper before its time..."

More to come as progress is realized....

[Free Bird]

PS....

In case you thought I messed up the Ape placement in the springer picture, I am "benchmarking" a trick Arlen Ness did a while ago in the 90's...here is the idea...

Note the bars bolt on just above the lower trees... I like the effect. This was the original idea I had, but had trouble finding a fabricator... Here is that crappy photoshop....

The jury decided on the fender.... To look good... no fender.... to be practical....mount it. So we will put it on something like this.... (With the brake calipers of course)

So as those keeping score can see.... still lots to do. Building this way is a time consuming process, and yes it interferes with the idea that you ride these things.... but that day will come soon enough....

[Free Bird]

Hiya everybody.... Long time no post (at least on this thread)....

I am in wait mode on the project ....Waiting on the new front and waiting on paint.... So I have been thinking... what can I do to a torn down bike that is just waiting for stuff to show up....

The answer... ENGINE UPGRADES

So here is what I am thinking….. I can make my own Stage 4 Upgrade (Comments are welcome….)



Maintain stock displacement and the MoCo Jugs and Pistons

Add:

S&S 475G Chest kit (get the gear drive, oil pump, and pushrods with that)



Stock Cylinder Heads - Pro Polished and Ported

58mm HorsePower Inc Max Flow Throttle Body (to replace the plastic Mikuni)



Cobra Pro-Chamber Head Pipes with Cobra Neighbor Hater Slip-Ons (these are made JUST FOR THE FREAKIN FREEWHEELER!!!! Yes Virginia! THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS!!!)

.... seriously.... it is nice to see things popping up for FLRTs.... we all have become to used to the "Except Trikes" on just about every aftermarket thing....









AIM Light Force Clutch Slave Cylinder (too many good reviews to pass up)

(There is a whole thread dedicated this thing... check it out)

Retain my S&S Air Cleaner, but modified to incorporate DK’s External Breather to keep the mucky muck out of the combustion chamber



That's it.... Not a profueler... but a little peppy-er for funnin around

Thoughts and input are always welcome.....

[Jack Klarich]

Jeff, I would check those HD cylinders real good

I have heard many horror stories about out of taper

[Free Bird]

Jeff, I would check those HD cylinders real good I have heard many horror stories about out of taper

I hope not..... but thanks for the heads up

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Yep ... I'm pretty sure the whole warrantee issue is mute .. but ya gotta love the concept and I'll bet ... she's gonna be a little nasty ... and you are gonna have to plan on 20-40 minute fill ups ... you are gonna attract a crowd ... but that id a good thing.

[Free Bird]

Well.... all this waiting makes a fella nervous..... gotta do SOMETHING with the trike..... So I shed a brief tear and paid my final respects to the factory warranty and took the jump.... All the "stuff" for my engine upgrades got ordered today. Here are the goodies:

[MDO]

Very nice!

Any update on paint & are you still picking it up in N.C. yourself ?

[Free Bird]

Yes. Current forecast for the paint is early April.

I am going to Louisville next weekend to take all of the "stuff" for the springer mock up. (I think) we are going to employ a special made set of Nash Pudgy Gimps that are made to a 29" rise and then cut and employed on the springer to get to the equivalent 18" on the trike.

Lot of fun.... but LOTS of waiting....

[Jack Klarich]

Jeff, are you changing the cam plate with the S& S oil pump?

[Free Bird]

Jeff, are you changing the cam plate with the S& S oil pump?

No change to the cam plate Jack. I was advised hat it was not required. I had actually planned on it and then was told that the cam plate did not do as much for the oil distribution issues as the oil pump alone did. The Mo Co has no less than 5 revisions to oil pumps for 2017 M8's. So I figured that was a definite mod. Do you have different thoughts on the cam chest? I value your input.

[Jack Klarich]

No change to the cam plate Jack. I was advised hat it was not required. I had actually planned on it and then was told that the cam plate did not do as much for the oil distribution issues as the oil pump alone did. The Mo Co has no less than 5 revisions to oil pumps for 2017 M8's. So I figured that was a definite mod. Do you have different thoughts on the cam chest? I value your input.

Yeah, I dunno about the plate being an absolute, however if you are going as far as a new and IMO a very good cam choice, if it were my trike I would gear drive the cam and be done with the MOCO non sense of the NOT so silent and improved cam chain

That along with adjustable push rods will give you better valve timing, and a longer running engine with no fears of a POS hydraulic cam tensioner

Here is the NEW HD oil pump to cam plate seal it is working to keep the crank case oil from building up and not returning to the tank

[Free Bird]

Yeah, I dunno about the plate being an absolute, however if you are going as far as a new and IMO a very good cam choice, if it were my trike I would gear drive the cam and be done with the MOCO non sense of the NOT so silent and improved cam chain That along with adjustable push rods will give you better valve timing, and a longer running engine with no fears of a POS hydraulic cam tensioner. Here is the NEW HD oil pump to cam plate seal it is working to keep the crank case oil from building up and not returning to the tank

Gear vs Chain was a debate... Gears make perfect sense to me but the Woods guy and the Master Tech at my local MoCo outlet (Doc's) both said it was not something they felt was required since I was was not building a big cube hot rod engine. My target was not a big HP increase, but rather a steep initial torque curve to get the big tires and weight of the extras (along with my big carcass and my wife's petite frame) moving off the line and accelerating when needed. The Woods 22x and Zippers 468 had nearly the same curve, but I went with the Woods because Doc's has a relationship with them building M8 motors (check Woods dyno pages - Doc's is mapping some of their cams) and I thought I would take advantage of that. I will re-open the debate on gears though as it just makes too much sense. Thanks for that

I am not sure if gears = new cam chest or if the OEM cam chest bearings are tight enough to run gears without abnormal wear.... Do you know?

62400206 oil pump assembly cover replaces 62400125. Got it. I will add that to the parts list. What did they do differently on the 206? It looks like the oil pump sits on top of it so if it is the latest bit of engineering to improve oil flow and deal with migration I want to add it.

[Jack Klarich]

The new 206 part has a new and improved seal. HD thought the pump was losing suction on the scavenge side. I believe this was the cause of the oil sumping

As far as cam bearings, I would for sure change them You have a very cool project going on

The main reason I would go to gear drive ( even with out a big inch engine) is I do not like surprises

I had a 07 96 inch TC engine that blew up. Glad I had ESP

[Free Bird]

The new 206 part has a new and improved seal. HD thought the pump was losing suction on the scavenge side. I believe this was the cause of the oil sumping As far as cam bearings, I would for sure change them You have a very cool project going on The main reason I would go to gear drive ( even with out a big inch engine) is I do not like surprises I had a 07 96 inch TC engine that blew up. Glad I had ESP

Yep, the cam bearings will be changed as part of the normal cam swap, I was wondering if the OEM bearing design would tolerate the runout requirements of a cam with shaft tolerances designed for gears vs one designed for the slop that comes with a chain. The OEM may not work (from a geometric dimensioning and tolerancing standpoint)

[Jack Klarich]

Yep, the cam bearings will be changed as part of the normal cam swap, I was wondering if the OEM bearing design would tolerate the runout requirements of a cam with shaft tolerances designed for gears vs one designed for the slop that comes with a chain. The OEM may not work (from a geometric dimensioning and tolerancing standpoint)

OEM should support the cam, tho the Torrington bearing has more surface area

The bearings are bigger than stock to prevent cam walk and better support

Note no spacing between rollers unlike the stock INA bearing

[MDO]

When you adults start talking engine internals, I'm glad I don't have a clue what your talking about, or I might want to update mine. It would not upset me to improve on the oil pump, but I'm not really seeing evidence there is a problem with my stock one & I don't have a clue which mod pump I have.

[Jack Klarich]

When you adults start talking engine internals, I'm glad I don't have a clue what your talking about, or I might want to update mine. It would not upset me to improve on the oil pump, but I'm not really seeing evidence there is a problem with my stock one & I don't have a clue which mod pump I have.

As luck would have it me either

IMO it is more of a problem with the Twin cooled models

[Free Bird]

OEM should support the cam, tho the Torrington bearing has more surface area. The bearings are bigger than stock to prevent cam walk and better support

Note no spacing between rollers unlike the stock INA bearing

That is what I was talking about THANK YOU Jack. That gives me a leg to stand on when talking pinion run out for gears vs chains! Glad you love the details. You enrichen this web site and forum. Papa Zook ... give Jack a raise.

Thanks man

[haute pursuit]

Dang brother... I haven't be on here in a few months and I figured you would be tearing up pavement with flashing lights behind you by now! Can't wait to see the finished product!