Weird skip in rpm in 5th gear at about 2100 rpm.

[JaysGone]

This is my second post on this particular oddity.

In the 1st post I described it as feeling like the clutch is slipping.

Going along at a steady pace keeping up with traffic. Instead of say downshifting. I give the throttle a slight twist and get a rise of say 200 rpm feels like a slip and then alls fine.

Since the odds its the clutch is small. Low miles no other issues and cant make the bike do it when I want to.

Could it be in need of the ECU being reset or remapped??

If so must this be done by Honda??

Anyone have any idea of the possible cost to remap the fuel injection??

The bike has never gotten better then 30 mpg 32 once in a blue moon.

The bikes never been serviced has 28K miles on it.

2010 by the way.

Thanks

[trikeman]

If it’s never been tuned or had service or maintenance work preformed. It can’t hurt anything except your billfold. I would take it to reputable Honda mechanic and let him put his hands on it. May be something as simple as spark plugs. Do you know if it’s had the valves adjusted? Think that should have been done at bout 5k miles. It could be a computer issue. A friend of mine has a 2006 wing doing the same thing only more radical. Missing rough idle and sometimes loss of power. Was a bad EMC. Replaced it. Problem solved. Good luck

[FuzzyWuzHe]

The lack of maintenance really doesn't explain the INCREASE in RPM, would explain a lag, but, not so much an INCREASE.

Having said that, when I did all the maintenance on my old trike at 30k, I was shocked on how bad things where.

Air Cleaner was clogged so bad the bike ran poorly for 20 miles or so until the ECM adjusted to actually getting air.

Brake fluid and clutch fluid was somewhat cloudy. Never seen that before.

Rear end fluid was watered down, emulsified with water.

Drive shaft zirc fittings were dry, u joints were dry.

The crank case vent system drain line was full of moisture.

Spark plus where worn and out of gap.

And many more issues.

The issue with the Gold Wing, if you can call it that, is that it is so well designed, that even with those issues I mentioned, it still ran smooth and still got 30+ mpg. After I got all the maintenance done, the trike had much more umph, and I would see 40's on occasion on highway mpg. Lots of Gold Wing owners just ride the wheels off them, not judging, just saying. Most people do regular oil changes and that helps. But, the bike benefits from so much more.

If it where me, I'd get the maintenance done and then see if it still does what it's doing, my guess is that it will. You have nothing to loose getting the maintenance done, and everything to gain. If you want to get 100k-300k out of your trike ... you have to do the maintenance.

Get all the maintenance done that should of been done by 30k, just once, for example, don't do a bunch of oil changes ... just one. Not gonna lie to you, if you have a Honda tech or even an indie do it, it's pricey probably in the $1,000 to $1,200 range. Maybe less depending on your mechanic and what they find. Money well spent.

After that, see where you stand. Tough to troubleshoot 5-10 issues at once.

[DWATC]

From what you are saying I think my '09 did the exact same thing. I never thought to check the TAC so can't say for sure. What it did was at about 45 mph it would feel like it went in and out of gear quickly then was fine. I couldn't make it do it and it only did it when it felt like it. Asked my mechanic and he said ride it. I did that for about 75K until I traded it off the bike had 115K on it so I'm just guessing on how long I rode it. Never had a problem new plugs, air filter, or oil change did a thing to improve it.

[mhgoldwing]

From your description it only happens in 5th gear and only at 2100 rpm. I would suspect that from your description everything is eliminated except what is being used in 5th gear.

A smarter guy than me will have to figure it out but process of elimination says I would eliminate the following:

Clutch - it would slip in other situations

ECM - it would react the same if loaded in some other gear besides 5th.

Spark plugs - again, would show up at other times.

Drive line - would show up in other gears

That leaves the transmission itself or some other gizmo I don't know about. Maybe one of the tech guys will chime in.

[Lee H. Mann]

This is my second post on this particular oddity.

In the 1st post I described it as feeling like the clutch is slipping.

Going along at a steady pace keeping up with traffic. Instead of say downshifting. I give the throttle a slight twist and get a rise of say 200 rpm feels like a slip and then alls fine.

Since the odds its the clutch is small. Low miles no other issues and cant make the bike do it when I want to.

Could it be in need of the ECU being reset or remapped??

If so must this be done by Honda??

Anyone have any idea of the possible cost to remap the fuel injection??

The bike has never gotten better then 30 mpg 32 once in a blue moon.

The bikes never been serviced has 28K miles on it.

2010 by the way.

Thanks

Attributed to Sidecarbill "Just sayin. But the engine is mechanically hooked to the rear wheels, if in fact the engine raises 1 to 200 rpm without a road speed change well there has to to be slippage in the drive train. My old Suzuki intruder has a hydraulic clutch. When the relief port gets clogged with contamination corrosion from dirty fluid, then running on the highway would cause the fluid to expand because of the heat. When the fluid can't escape back to the reservoir it puts pressure on the clutch causing slippage. Perhaps you have a similar problem. It didn't take hardly any movement at the lever to disengage the clutch."

Question, Have you checked the clutch fluid reservoir for being over filled or needing changing ??

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Attributed to Sidecarbill "Just sayin. But the engine is mechanically hooked to the rear wheels, if in fact the engine raises 1 to 200 rpm without a road speed change well there has to to be slippage in the drive train. My old Suzuki intruder has a hydraulic clutch. When the relief port gets clogged with contamination corrosion from dirty fluid, then running on the highway would cause the fluid to expand because of the heat. When the fluid can't escape back to the reservoir it puts pressure on the clutch causing slippage. Perhaps you have a similar problem. It didn't take hardly any movement at the lever to disengage the clutch."

Question, Have you checked the clutch fluid reservoir for being over filled or needing changing ??

Kind of why I recommended doing all service that past due ... again ... tough to troubleshoot with so many variables (issues).

[CrystalPistol]

A clutch that slips only when in high gear will sometimes show no slip in lower gear where torque multiplication is greater.

If your trike's engine is indeed speeding up 200 rpm or so in 5th gear simply because of throttle being opened quickly, clutch is slipping (as gears don't slip). Whether it's due to wear, soft springs, or adjustment of lever … clutch is slipping.

[RUMRUNR]

A clutch that slips only when in high gear will sometimes show no slip in lower gear where torque multiplication is greater.

If your trike's engine is indeed speeding up 200 rpm or so in 5th gear simply because of throttle being opened quickly, clutch is slipping (as gears don't slip). Whether it's due to wear, soft springs, or adjustment of lever … clutch is slipping.

I agree, the clutch is the only place it can slip and get an RPM increase without the spedo moving.

[JaysGone]

Bought the bike used at 10K miles. 29K now.

No work done other then all fluid changes and I pulled the plugs at about 17K miles to look.

Clutch fluid was changed when brake recall done last year.

I didn't do the 24K maintenance as it was $1000 plus. Nothing was wrong or bad at the time.

I was/wanted to have both 24/32 k done at the 32K mark.

I know a slipping clutch and this issue it isn't.

I do however have the doesn't exist ghost shift.

Has happened maybe 3 times. Drops out of 4th back into 3rd accelerating hard as in entering highway.

This "slippage is a slight rpm increase. 100-150 so rpm at 2100 rpm in 5th gear just going along and easing the throttle instead of downshifting to 4th to increase speed. Its more like a throttle blip then a slipping of say a clutch. Doesn't even last a second. But you can feel it and see the tach needle move if I catch myself looking at the tach at the exact moment..

I cant make it do this at any speed or gear on its own. It only happens in 5th gear. When it feels like it.

I can defiantly live with it as long as it doesn't get worse till 32K. If it gets bad enough then that's a good thing. Easier to identify at that point.

[Gold Rush]

YUP, sound like you have a plan. Many years ago a mechanic friend of mine told me something similar about a strange noise I had on an pickup truck. Sold the truck a few years later complete with the intermittent noise.

[JaysGone]

Jerry

its not a life and death issue for me. If I power through it.

Its at about 52ish mph and Im on a 45 mph road when this happens.

I shouldn't even be in 5th gear as is. Just going with the flow of traffic so I put it in 5th and glide along.

Might be lugging the engine a bit and its letting me know it.

Just my Hondas way of saying get out of 5th already.

The double spacing of my replies here bugs me more then my bikes slight burp.

[RUMRUNR]

Bought the bike used at 10K miles. 29K now.

No work done other then all fluid changes and I pulled the plugs at about 17K miles to look.

Clutch fluid was changed when brake recall done last year.

I didn't do the 24K maintenance as it was $1000 plus. Nothing was wrong or bad at the time.

I was/wanted to have both 24/32 k done at the 32K mark.

I know a slipping clutch and this issue it isn't.

I do however have the doesn't exist ghost shift.

Has happened maybe 3 times. Drops out of 4th back into 3rd accelerating hard as in entering highway.

This "slippage is a slight rpm increase. 100-150 so rpm at 2100 rpm in 5th gear just going along and easing the throttle instead of downshifting to 4th to increase speed. Its more like a throttle blip then a slipping of say a clutch. Doesn't even last a second. But you can feel it and see the tach needle move if I catch myself looking at the tach at the exact moment..

I cant make it do this at any speed or gear on its own. It only happens in 5th gear. When it feels like it.

I can defiantly live with it as long as it doesn't get worse till 32K. If it gets bad enough then that's a good thing. Easier to identify at that point.

When you get this 100-150 rpm increase does the speedometer move?

[JaysGone]

When you get this 100-150 rpm increase does the speedometer move?

Yes the speedo increases at a normal pace with the acceleration. Burp or no burp. The whole point and maybe I haven't explained myself here properly. Im calling it a burp. i dont know what other descriptive word to use.

Its not a clutch slippage feeling. I know what that is. You can easily force a bad clutch to slip.

Ive only owned 1 vehicle in my life with an auto tranny. I have plenty of experience wit auto and bike clutches.

Its a momentary flash of rpm. Tach moves, bike moves, speedo goes right along as it should.

Trike accelerates you feel like a burp at the same exact point in 5th gear at the same point in rpm every time when it does happen. It burps gaining a bit of rpm for an instant. No change in acceleration. Goes right on past the point when it burps. And will keep accelerating as Im giving it throttle. From 50mph to whatever. Seems to be at 52ish mph when it does happen.

Im more of the thought its something in the ECU or mapping of the FI that's out of whack.

This is one reason all my other bikes have carbs. I love taking carbs apart and playing with them.

The trike is the 1st and only bike Ive ever had with FI. Or ever will have.

One of my biggest complaints with a GW is you cant work on them. Basically nothing to play with. Its boring as hell in this regard.

[Sidecarbill]

I don't know Goldwings. So for what its worth. When I worked on cars we never reflashed a computer for a driveability problem. We had our diagnostic computers. If nothing showed up for codes when scanned, then we would recommend spark plugs. Keep in mind there's other things we can check but we're keepin it simple here. If someone came to me with a performance problem and the change interval was 60000 and the car has 55000 miles, first thing I would do is change the plugs. You're gonna do it in another 5000 miles anyway. I,d check the air filter, doesn't matter how many miles a filter has on it rodents can fill it with stuff in one weekend. I don't know if you can pull codes on a Wing but its the first thing I'd check. Fuel injection is easier than carburetion. Most people overjet and don't really fix a problem.

[RUMRUNR]

Yes the speedo increases at a normal pace with the acceleration. Burp or no burp. The whole point and maybe I haven't explained myself here properly. Im calling it a burp. i dont know what other descriptive word to use.

Its not a clutch slippage feeling. I know what that is. You can easily force a bad clutch to slip.

Ive only owned 1 vehicle in my life with an auto tranny. I have plenty of experience wit auto and bike clutches.

Its a momentary flash of rpm. Tach moves, bike moves, speedo goes right along as it should.

Trike accelerates you feel like a burp at the same exact point in 5th gear at the same point in rpm every time when it does happen. It burps gaining a bit of rpm for an instant. No change in acceleration. Goes right on past the point when it burps. And will keep accelerating as Im giving it throttle. From 50mph to whatever. Seems to be at 52ish mph when it does happen.

Im more of the thought its something in the ECU or mapping of the FI that's out of whack.

This is one reason all my other bikes have carbs. I love taking carbs apart and playing with them.

The trike is the 1st and only bike Ive ever had with FI. Or ever will have.

One of my biggest complaints with a GW is you cant work on them. Basically nothing to play with. Its boring as hell in this regard.

I got it now, I thought you were getting RPM gain and no gain on the spedo, I misunderstood.

Like you say maybe ECM or fuel delivery glitch, I haven't needed to be into the fuel injection part of my bike but I can only guess that it is like a throttle body injection. Maybe at that certain RPM and in 5 th gear it is lugging and the TBI is slobbering a little bit of excess fuel & when you crack the throttle it gets a little extra gulp. Maybe that is why you have some low fuel economy, it is running rich all the time. I know I will get hung on the cross for even saying this but maybe run some Tecron or Sea Foam through it & see if it cleans up. What do the exhaust pipes look like, does it look like it is rich?

Hope you find the problem.

[JaysGone]

I got it now, I thought you were getting RPM gain and no gain on the spedo, I misunderstood.

Like you say maybe ECM or fuel delivery glitch, I haven't needed to be into the fuel injection part of my bike but I can only guess that it is like a throttle body injection. Maybe at that certain RPM and in 5 th gear it is lugging and the TBI is slobbering a little bit of excess fuel & when you crack the throttle it gets a little extra gulp. Maybe that is why you have some low fuel economy, it is running rich all the time. I know I will get hung on the cross for even saying this but maybe run some Tecron or Sea Foam through it & see if it cleans up. What do the exhaust pipes look like, does it look like it is rich?

Hope you find the problem.

Ive put a ton of Techron through it.

There is a full bottle for 20 gallons in there now.

I can see a nice increase in fuel mileage already.

But

It burped 3 times today on the way home from work at the same point everytime.

I was looking too.

So I guess its check the plugz this weekend at least.

I skipped the 24K checkup because $1000 is a lot for an airfilter.

That's of course is another unknown at this time.

Yes in a nutshell Ive always though the GW was running rich. Just have a feeling there.

Back to carbs nah I know where Im at with them over 30 years experience road racing and even modifying the actual carb bodies themselves for racing purposes.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

This is what mine looked like at 30k ... the dirt wasn't real bad, but the moister in it was scary.

[JaysGone]

FuzzyWuzHe

This is what mine looked like at 30k ... the dirt wasn't real bad, but the moister in it was scary.

That's pretty bad.

Most of if not all vehicles Ive owned here in Florida. The filters don't get dirty.

But if they do get anything its sand in them. So I don't really worry about air filters much.

My Valks was over 10 years old but easy to get at. I never had to change it.

My 2005 RoadStar is only on its second filter.

They get holes burned in them from carb backfires.

This bike. I have no clue what conditions its 1st 10K miles was run under.

No excuses just being cheap with the GW.

3 quarters of the cost of the 24k service is getting at the air filter.

Im not taking the front pod off.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Im not taking the front pod off.

It really isn't that hard ... just time consuming ... there are loads of u tube videos that show you what to do.