Cooling My M8 Wet Head

[Jack Klarich]

OK, are you saying that the Power Vision can now read the engine oil temp on the M8 bikes? That is great if it will. I have never been able to find it as an option on my PV for my 2016 TC. I guess the PV is not able to get that from the ECM on the 16 and back models. Anybody else getting oil temp from the TC with a PV? I am going to check my PV menus again, but I don't think it will do it.

NOPE. I just hooked my PV up and checked for oil temp reading. It is not available for a gauge under the Advanced or Basic gauge options. Sure wish it was.

Thanks for checking Mike, I thought it was readable

It does have a coolant temp reading, I wonder what that would be on the Wet Heads?

[Cookr21]

Thanks for checking Mike, I thought it was readable

It does have a coolant temp reading, I wonder what that would be on the Wet Heads?

I'll be taking a 120 mile ride tomorrow. I added the coolant temp to the PV display and will let you know the results.

[Cookr21]

That is not good at all. Something is wrong. Even bone stock in 100* ambient temps, you should not be getting that much heat.

It could be quite a variety of things, but the first thing I would do is ride it a bit, to get it warmed up, then pull the lower fairing cover on the right hand side and see if the coolant in the reservoir is hot. If it is not, that lets you know that the coolant is not circulating thru the heads.

With all the things you've done to cool it, it seems almost impossible for it be that hot, even if the coolant is not circulating. Do you have full power? It is not sumping, working against itself? Are the radiator fans kicking on? It could be any one or combination of those things.

There are just so many things it could be, but I would check the coolant first, and also see if it is throwing any codes.

If that is all good, then I would check the tune...but even a horrible tune should not be able to make it run that hot...but I would still check it.

Then I would check and make sure the anti-knock system is working.

If you need any assistance in checking any of the above, feel free to call.

I hate to say this, but if it were my bike, I would not ride it long enough to get it that hot, until whatever the issue(s) are are resolved. The ET is measuring the temp of the liquid cooled cylinder head, the rest of the engine is even hotter.

Kevin

Got a chance to ride it this morning and warmed it up, (252 degrees ET on PV). Only took about 6 miles with rpm's between 2200 and 3000. Speeds in town are all under 45 mph. Pulled the right side cover and reservoir is warm as in I can hold it all day long. Definitely not hot by any means. Coolant fans are running and and exhausting on both lowers. Any further suggestions?

[Jack Klarich]

Got a chance to ride it this morning and warmed it up, (252 degrees ET on PV). Only took about 6 miles with rpm's between 2200 and 3000. Speeds in town are all under 45 mph. Pulled the right side cover and reservoir is warm as in I can hold it all day long. Definitely not hot by any means. Coolant fans are running and and exhausting on both lowers. Any further suggestions?

I am stumped, I would expect @ 252 the coolant would be hotter in the reservoir

I wonder what your oil temp is?

Have you got a thermometer you can stick in the oil tank hole?

[Cookr21]

I am stumped, I would expect @ 252 the coolant would be hotter in the reservoir

I wonder what your oil temp is?

Have you got a thermometer you can stick in the oil tank hole?

No thermometer Jack. I'll head over to O'reillys or autozone and see if they have one.

Why would the reservoir be hot? Is it not just a holding tank for the system if it needs more or less fluid?

I believe my coolant temp got up to about 191 on that little run. Maybe not hot enough for the fluid to pull or add to the tank? I'll do another run shortly and see what I get for ET and Coolant temp and report back.

[Jack Klarich]

No thermometer Jack. I'll head over to O'reillys or autozone and see if they have one.

Why would the reservoir be hot? Is it not just a holding tank for the system if it needs more or less fluid?

I believe my coolant temp got up to about 191 on that little run. Maybe not hot enough for the fluid to pull or add to the tank? I'll do another run shortly and see what I get for ET and Coolant temp and report back.

I was thinking lowers not reservoir

I believe I could live with 191 with both fans on, tho your ride was short

The oil temp will tell a good story once you know its value IMO

[Cookr21]

I was thinking lowers not reservoir

I believe I could live with 191 with both fans on, tho your ride was short

The oil temp will tell a good story once you know its value IMO

Just returned from an 80 mile ride to see what the variation in temps would be. Cruise set at 70 mph at around 3000 rpm.

Highly unscientific for oil temp but used one digital and two deep frier thermostats. Best I could determine for oil temp was 232. This was shutting the trike down and immediately checking.

ET and coolant temps are from the PV. The ET and coolant temps very depending on terrain traveled. On the rolling hills around Great Falls I will say the temps average around 217 for the coolant and 297 for ET.

Going up a pretty good grade on a mountain pass with twisted at 70 rather aggressively I had a high of 230 on the coolant temp and 306 on the ET.

Pulled the right lower cover, (engine running) when I got on top to see if the radiator had been pulling any fluid from the reservoir. Once again I could hold my hand on the tank and it was not hot at all.

Trike had plenty of power throughout the ride. The darn thing is a torque monster compared to my 2010 trike.

No idea what to check next. Any suggestion from the forum are welcome.

[Jack Klarich]

I dunno but I think the ET is too high for a wet head

IMO. The temp is taken in a very hot part of the engine compared to the front cylinder reading on Twin Cams so I would expect it to be hotter, the M8 definitely cools down faster than Twin Cams

Your coolant temp looks good to me and your oil temps are where they should be

I have high ET some times with my M8 oil cooled but my oil temps are consistent in the range they need to be

I am not too worried, I have put over 17 K miles on now since I have been watching my PV and No bad Ju Ju yet

Just for grins if you know someone that has an infra red thermo give it a shot after a ride and compare your readings to what the PV is showing, you will probably be as surprised as I was

[tom H]

I dunno but I think the ET is too high for a wet head

IMO. The temp is taken in a very hot part of the engine compared to the front cylinder reading on Twin Cams so I would expect it to be hotter, the M8 definitely cools down faster than Twin Cams

Your coolant temp looks good to me and your oil temps are where they should be

I have high ET some times with my M8 oil cooled but my oil temps are consistent in the range they need to be

I am not too worried, I have put over 17 K miles on now since I have been watching my PV and No bad Ju Ju yet

Just for grins if you know someone that has an infra red thermo give it a shot after a ride and compare your readings to what the PV is showing, you will probably be as surprised as I was

230 to 250 on oil temp is not out of the norm on a 100 deg day (would suggest you use synthetic oil and not HD oil), think the manual states 230 as normal, as far as your cooling system If your cooling fans are coming on and going off I would think they are working correctly (on @ 90 C , off @ 83 C. My concern would be what map you have loaded from your PV and what your fuel tables are set at ? a can map is exactly that one to start with and make adjustments to fit your needs. the injectors on the original bike tuned will be a little different than what yours are and your VE tables will also be slightly different 14.4 in the cruse range is about where you want to be 2000 rpm to 35 or 3700 RPM up to about the 80 KPA throttle range, from what you are saying here I would guess your total weight is around 1800 lbs loaded going up and down hills with a pretty much stock bike downshifting to pass always helps even on two wheels, and most stock HD cams are done putting out torque by 3000 to 3500 RPM and start to nose over on the chart. just my two cents and I do understand your concerns Im in the process of modifying the wifes tri Glide due to the heat coming off the engine and putting blisters on her leg. as well as oil transfer from trans to primary.

[tom H]

what map are you using and have you done any other tuning since installing map. your numbers sound normal for

a tri glide or a harley in general, 230 - 250 oil temp not out of the question. coolant temps must be normal if your fans are working ( on at 90 C off @ 83C. and no HOT light on gauges. just rolling the throttle on to pass will work if you have lots of room but the engine will do better if you drop down to 5th gear to pass. cooling fans dont do much at 70 MPH. My wife got blisters on her right leg from her TG , In the process of doing mods to help it out,

BUT it is still a big air cooled engine (only the exhaust port is liquid cooled) for the most part and will put out lots of heat when worked hard and yes to me 1500 to 1800 hundred LBS climbing hills is working the motor.

[Cookr21]

what map are you using and have you done any other tuning since installing map. your numbers sound normal for

a tri glide or a harley in general, 230 - 250 oil temp not out of the question. coolant temps must be normal if your fans are working ( on at 90 C off @ 83C. and no HOT light on gauges. just rolling the throttle on to pass will work if you have lots of room but the engine will do better if you drop down to 5th gear to pass. cooling fans dont do much at 70 MPH. My wife got blisters on her right leg from her TG , In the process of doing mods to help it out,

BUT it is still a big air cooled engine (only the exhaust port is liquid cooled) for the most part and will put out lots of heat when worked hard and yes to me 1500 to 1800 hundred LBS climbing hills is working the motor.

Appreciate the reply Tom.

Bummer to to hear about the extreme heat you wife is experiencing. Hope you find a solution soon. I feel heat but nothing like blistering heat.

The PV is my first experience with a tuner and I have no idea what I'm doing with it. Just downloaded a user guide for it yesterday and will start digging into it. The tune I began with is the one supplied with it according to my setup. I took that tune and ran 3 or 4 auto tunes around town with the supplied tune and whatever the results of the auto tune is what I'm running. It's time I learn more on the capabilities of the PV and how it will work best for me and my setup.

Been some discussion above about checking the trike to see if any codes have been thrown. None displayed on the PV. Would the ECM on the trike store codes that the PV would not detect? Want to make sure I'm not missing something.

To me it appears that the radiators and fans are working properly. I took the front covers off to check for air flow blockage, (fin damage, excessive bugs and debri) all looked good. Fans definitely running and expelling heat from the sides of the lowers. Coolant temps go up when under load and down as expected when not under load. They appear to stay steady on the flats. Pretty much what I would expect from a liquid cooled motor.

Engine oil temp does appear to be running in a decent temp range, (highly unscientific using the thermometers I described above and had available at the time). Would like to find a better way to check oil temp with more accurate results. Any suggestions welcome?

Appreciate the responses. Keep them coming if you have more. Learning more about this trike daily. Hope to get it cooled down as much as possible. Truly enjoy the time that Laura and I spend on it.

[Jack Klarich]

Been some discussion above about checking the trike to see if any codes have been thrown. None displayed on the PV. Would the ECM on the trike store codes that the PV would not detect? Want to make sure I'm not missing something.

That is a very good question

I have found the PV to see a code the on board ECM scanner did not find

That said I am sure the HD digital tech scanner can find all codes ever logged on the ECM even after a soft delete JMO

[tom H]

Appreciate the reply Tom.

The PV is my first experience with a tuner and I have no idea what I'm doing with it. Just downloaded a user guide for it yesterday and will start digging into it. The tune I began with is the one supplied with it according to my setup. I took that tune and ran 3 or 4 auto tunes around town with the supplied tune and whatever the results of the auto tune is what I'm running. It's time I learn more on the capabilities of the PV and how it will work best for me and my setup.

Been some discussion above about checking the trike to see if any codes have been thrown. None displayed on the PV. Would the ECM on the trike store codes that the PV would not detect? Want to make sure I'm not missing something.

not real good at posting on here but here goes.

I use a daytona twin tec, wego III to set VE in map, Im using the same map I had done on my 2018 ultra due to build being similar and it was done on a dyno.

ultra is Rinehart 2 into 2 with non cat head pipe and 4.5 mufflers zippers 468 cam SE air cleaner,

triglide is same 468, fuel moto head pipe and mufflers SE air cleaner. both using power vision.



long story short VE tables were off quite a bit, rich and very lean in in the cruse area. have not even tried to use the PV tuning due to limits of stock exhaust sensors.

I did clear codes with the twin tec but did not check the PV to see if they were reading same codes, or even check to see what they were due to the fact I have just got bike back together, will check next time I do some tuning and see if they came back and are readable with both devices and if they show up on dash

( believe they were for low voltage to exhaust sensors and I have them turned off for tuning with wideband sensors)

[pfsorl]

You might need to check the jets that shoot oil into the bottom of the cylinders. My 18 got a brand new engine when these jets loosened and both cylinders overheated. Harley went from O-rings to gaskets and the gaskets are compressing, allowing the jets to unthread. Harley is now having them torqued to 120 ft-lbs vs the original 90. Needs a full tear down but if you still have warranty it will save your motor. I know of several motors in South Carolina where this was the problem. A buddy had identical engine and only one cylinder was overheating and burning out crank sensor. One jet had come loose.

Another thing is never ride with the fairing vents shut unless outside air temp is below 45 degrees.

[Jack Klarich]

You might need to check the jets that shoot oil into the bottom of the cylinders. My 18 got a brand new engine when these jets loosened and both cylinders overheated. Harley went from O-rings to gaskets and the gaskets are compressing, allowing the jets to unthread. Harley is now having them torqued to 120 ft-lbs vs the original 90. Needs a full tear down but if you still have warranty it will save your motor. I know of several motors in South Carolina where this was the problem. A buddy had identical engine and only one cylinder was overheating and burning out crank sensor. One jet had come loose.

Another thing is never ride with the fairing vents shut unless outside air temp is below 45 degrees.

I hope you mean inch pounds? Ft Lbs would be way too much for the cap screw that holds the piston cooling jets in place

[Capt.Bob]

You might need to check the jets that shoot oil into the bottom of the cylinders. My 18 got a brand new engine when these jets loosened and both cylinders overheated. Harley went from O-rings to gaskets and the gaskets are compressing, allowing the jets to unthread. Harley is now having them torqued to 120 ft-lbs vs the original 90. Needs a full tear down but if you still have warranty it will save your motor. I know of several motors in South Carolina where this was the problem. A buddy had identical engine and only one cylinder was overheating and burning out crank sensor. One jet had come loose.

Another thing is never ride with the fairing vents shut unless outside air temp is below 45 degrees.

Pardon me for being skeptical but this is the first I have heard of oil jets being insufficiently assembled. Who suggested to you that one "never ride with the fairing vents shut unless outside air temp is below 45 degrees"? Current and recent Tri Glides have built-in fan systems for heat issues and the M8's are "wet heads". Although the 103's and 107's tend to run on the hot side, what data would support the recommendation for the fairing vent positions and ambient temps?