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Thread: VW trike hydraulic clutch problems

  1. #1
    20+ Posts Zar's Avatar
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    Default VW trike hydraulic clutch problems

    hello Trike Talk people... first of all, thank you for letting me join this forum, I hope I will be able to be of help from time to time.

    ~ I am currently building a VW powered monster of a trike, and I'm in the semifinals, but the conversion to a hydraulic clutch system is where i hit the wall. I will try to describe what is going on to the best of my ability. I have a C&C slave cylinder properly installed, a 3/4"master cylinder as it is recommended, my flywheel, pressure plate and clutch pad are the correct type for my type 1 VW transmission and are new and in perfect and working condition, all the torque values are correct... I bled the system 3 times, and made sure there was no air in the system and at first everything looked to be working fine... but ones I got the engine fired up, the clutch would not disengage...

    after a very complete Inspection, I found that the slave cylinder would only actuate up to the place where the throw bearing engages the pressure plate fingers, and stop. no mater the adjustments on the slave cylinder, it would only go that far... I took all the slack out of the slave cyl. push rods and the pedal was unmovable. I can disengage the clutch i by using a pry bar on the tranny throw arm... I also had the company that sold me the slave cylinder, send me a new one... but it made no difference.

    Thanks,Cesar.

    ,IMG_5974.jpgIMG_5975.jpgIMG_5976.jpg

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    Cesar welcome aboard our VW people should pickup on this shortly.
    Stallion #406 // 2013 Tri-Glide

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    300+ Posts LarryA's Avatar
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    welcome to trike talk..1st thing I thought, does your mc have less fluid capacity than the slave needs? failure to disengage because of insufficient slave travel. Next thought....is there a problem with your throw out bearing length or fork geometry.

    When you say you can disengage the clutch with a bar, can you actually shift into gear with out grinding gears? when you removed all lost motion with slave adjustments....it led me to believe there are problems within the bell housing......

    no vw expert ,but have converted cable chrysler to hydraulic If recall 3/4 mc 7/8 pull type slave.

    There are highly experienced vw folks on this site that will chime in with better advice than I

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    Ok. At full extension it should be at the same point as an adjusted cable.

    As in at full extension the throw out bearing should just be retracted away from pressure plate. I dont have actual numbers but somewhere around a quarter inch of slack before the throw out makes contact.

    It sound like air to me though. Either not all out or something is re-introducing air back in.

    Or possibly the cup in the master is bad.

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    20+ Posts Zar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryA View Post
    welcome to trike talk..1st thing I thought, does your mc have less fluid capacity than the slave needs? failure to disengage because of insufficient slave travel. Next thought....is there a problem with your throw out bearing length or fork geometry.

    When you say you can disengage the clutch with a bar, can you actually shift into gear with out grinding gears? when you removed all lost motion with slave adjustments....it led me to believe there are problems within the bell housing......

    no vw expert ,but have converted cable chrysler to hydraulic If recall 3/4 mc 7/8 pull type slave.

    There are highly experienced vw folks on this site that will chime in with better advice than I
    I can desingage the clutch with a pry bar, and donít have to even push it all the way, and I can get in to gear with out grinding -

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    20+ Posts Zar's Avatar
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    I bled the system 3 times, and found no air at all the last time, after pressing the pedal and adjusting the slave several times... I also checked for leaks and found none... how can I check for a bad master cup?

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    At first it seemed to work?

    As in it did draw in the lever.

    But then later it did not release the clutch and when you inspected it, it was not drawing in the lever.

    You operated the lever with a bar and know it moves as it should.

    So now you push the pedal down it takes out the slack but does not pull the lever even though the pedal continues to travel down.

    The pedal moves and the slave does not?

    As you changed the slave and the fact that it would be leaking fluid out, I doubt that is the problem.

    The number 1 cause is air. If that is eliminated that leaves the master.

    Did the piston stick, did the cup seal fail?

    Way back when I first built mine......I had gotten the brake master and worked on linkages.....worked it in and out a lot......left that part the sit and moved to other things......by the time the final assembly and bleed came around the master was bad and would not displace the fluid.

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    Something I added was, a residual pressure valve between master and slave....the slave is mounted about 12/16 in. above the master.....I was worried about drainback into the master. I think about a 10#....maybe the one for drum brakes from "speedway".

    now...... the chrysler transverse setups did run with the throw out turning continuousley against the pressure plate like some semi trucks do.

    In your situation, with a throw out that sets back with clearance from the p-plate this may not be a good idea???

    If your problems are indeed caused by drain back...I would watch for increasing fluid levels in the mc.

    One last thought...your mc, ( If pedal linkages are set correctly) should give a little burp in the mc fluid when you just begin to press the brake pedal....this signifies that the cup has returned enough to reload the cylinder for the next stroke.

    this is something that can be easily overlooked when working with linkages.

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    Larry has a very valid point.

    I did just assumed you have your linkage and lever all sorted.

    So do you?

    Lever lengths?

    Travel?

    Full retract/ push rod slack?

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    20+ Posts Zar's Avatar
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    The pedal stops where the Slave stops. and I changed the slave cyl, because I thought it was bad.. but it wasn't leaking.

    -I don't see any fluid leaks by the M.C. or anywhere in the system. I also don't see a significant l change on the level of fluid on the M.C.

    so maybe I need more fluid capacity on my M.C. but the thing that throws me off, is that when the Slave is not engage to the tranny, it has more than enough travel to operate the clutch, but when it's attached to the throw arm, it does not have the power to push past the fingers.

    - so, based on all the things you guys are suggesting, it is most likely the wrong M.C. or a bad M.C .

    -if my M.C. is d=bad, how can I test it. ?

    and if I need to change it, what M.C. do you guys recommend to go wit this CNC slave.

    this is my first build, and when I got the M.C. for the clutch and brake, I made sure it was 3/4", and had a big cup. IMG_5987.jpgIMG_5988.JPGthis is what I have in it.

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