Would someone please explain what is done to your bike for a stage 1, and is it worth it.
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Stage 1 Upgrade
Would someone please explain what is done to your bike for a stage 1, and is it worth it.
A bit of 'googling' located this pretty good explanation:
Stage 1 Upgrade usually consists of recalibrating the air intake and exhausts systems together to improve the air flow by using specialist aftermarket accessories that are designed to improve performance. A Stage 1 Upgrade does not involve the internal engine modification of a Harley-Davidson.
The point of the upgrade of course is to improve performance by letting the motor breathe better. It is just an air pump so more volume in and out equals more power. And it does require what Harley calls a 'recalibration' of the ECM and if you use all Harley parts (which is required to retain your factory warranty coverage) then Harley will have an updated calibration for that combination of intake and exhaust. If you go the aftermarket route then you will need some sort of tuning device - Power Commander, TTS Mastertune, Power Vision, etc., and possibly a professional tune using whichever device you select.
Along with more power the engine will tend to run a bit cooler especially if you go with a non-Harley factory tune which are very lean in order to meet EPA requirements.
Nuff Said," Were Burnin Daylight, Lets Ride"(Sober 37 years)
Current ride : 2021 FREEWHEELER M8, oldest ride 1960 FL
Thanks guys !
On my 16 Tri Glide i gutted the head pipe then installed a Stage 1 Screaming Eagle air cleaner,with Street Cannon mufflers along with a Power Vision download.It help with the performance but the biggest improvement was less heat on my wife and my self.
Tune info
I have the exact mods and am wondering which tune you are using. My mileage is in The 31-32 range regardless of my driving Style. Hot rod to scary slow really makes very little difference with this trike.Originally Posted by Mykneesbehurtin
if possible could you send me a copy of the tune you are using and the results. It would sure help me to figure out this “tuner”
If you have the Power Vision, you can go to dynojet.com, download your tune based on your configuration. Then do the autotune to modify the tune based on your specific trike and your driving style. There are great Videos to teach you how to load tunes and auto tune on the Dynojet website.
If you don't have a Power Vision if will do you no good to get a copy of his tune.
I had the stage 1 on my 11 Tri-Glide 103 engine it consists of the air cleaner exhaust system re-calibrate EMC and raise’s the redline up to 6300 rpm’s worth every penny as far as I was concerned📞
Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar.....
2019 Tri-Glide.......
Stock M8 engines IMO do not need a tuner unless you really want to dial in your tune and void your factory warranty ( unless you use the Screaming Eagle Tuner with purchase of cables from Harley)
The M8 does NOT run lean like the Twin Cams did
AS far as raising the Rev limiter, IMO leave it alone unless you are planning on redlining gears and racing
The Power Vision tuner is IMO about as good as it gets and very user friendly
Nuff Said," Were Burnin Daylight, Lets Ride"(Sober 37 years)
Current ride : 2021 FREEWHEELER M8, oldest ride 1960 FL
What Jack said!Stock M8 engines IMO do not need a tuner unless you really want to dial in your tune and void your factory warranty ( unless you use the Screaming Eagle Tuner with purchase of cables from Harley)
The M8 does NOT run lean like the Twin Cams did
AS far as raising the Rev limiter, IMO leave it alone unless you are planning on redlining gears and racing
The Power Vision tuner is IMO about as good as it gets and very user friendly
Good to know, Not All Stage I's are the same. LINK on what makes up a Great Stage I upgrade.
LINK with Dyno Charts (from Jack's M8) showing how much better the AFR is on the M8's than the Twin Cams.
I was just talking with Dwayne earlier today about his 2018 M8 Deluxe. He has open exhaust with TTI's and an open Air Cleaner with EBS (Outlaw 587). Running the factory tune and it is not the least bit lean, runs very good.
In factory condition, or in Stage I condition, the majority of the benefit of a tune is in the difference in timing, not AFR. In the link above you can see that from when we used a sniffer on the dyno.
Kevin
So Kevin, if I am understanding you correctly, I could put on some different slip on mufflers and my 19 would probably still run exactly like it does now? Or I could put on slip on mufflers plus change my air breather and it would still run great?
I know on my 16 TG after adding slip on mufflers it didn't run as good as original.
Current: 2019 Trike (custom 130ci T-Man kit with Darkhorse bottom end)
I DO have the Power Vision, but there is no tune on their site for Decat stock headpipes, Street Cannons, And Screaming Beagle air cleaner. I have tried several other combination tunes with little to no success. That’s why I asked which “base tune” he was using and what is nibs results. I know 40+mpg is a pipe dream for the trike, but I should be able to get 35/36! 31-32 is rediculous.
Just to add to this and as i jogged my memory a little..... After i added all that stuff, I got a little aggressive and added rush 1.75 slip-ons....And that was a mistake i lost a lot of bottom end torque/power....But gained more top end than than i needed...
My pipes were too free flowing [Not enough back-pressure] So ratter then playing around with new slip-ons i put on a set of DK Customs Thunder Torques.....15 Minute job...
And got the bottom end back in spades and the trike ran great for 40 thousand miles after that........
Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar.....
2019 Tri-Glide.......
I ran Vance and Hines, HD Stage One, de catted head pipe and was averaging 35/36 ... some highway, some city ... some country. I would start with the dynojet tune that is closest to your configuration. Then do a few auto tuning rides, like you ride ... again, city, country, highway. After your fist autotune run, save it, load it and auto tune the autotuned map, repeat until you don't see a lot of change in the learned block.
I just swapped out the Vance and Hines for Fuel Moto's E-series, mainly for the quieter ride. So I'll start with the map fuel moto sent me and go from there.
As far as MPG are concerned, this is very dependent on how you ride, something as simple as blipping the throttle at a stop light will affect it. It's amazing how much that will affect mpg. If you are trying to get 35/36 at 75 mph, probably not gonna happen. You are pulling a "bill board" through dead air, the rear end is like a sail. My goal with regards to mpg is around here, most of my riding has city, country and highway riding, that's why I tune that way. My goal is to get at least 180-200 miles on a tank ... LOL ... mainly because we have places around here where fuel can be 120-140 miles away (that's also why i have a 2 gallon roto pax can in the trunk).
It is important to note: Not every after market muffler or head pipe will improve performance. There are lots of products out there that just make noise and kill performance.
Also, I think a mistake lots of folks make with the auto tune mode is they don't let it learn how they ride ... some just try to hit every cell. I know I did. Another mistake that's made is they may save what it learned, but, never load it, and don't auto tune what they've already learned.
I can send you a tune that I've had great results with. Kevin used it on his 14 and was getting great results. I would still recommend auto tuning as there are lots of differences to individual rides and riders. If you're interested, PM me with an email and I'll send it.
Bob forget the term back pressureJust to add to this and as i jogged my memory a little..... After i added all that stuff, I got a little aggressive and added rush 1.75 slip-ons....And that was a mistake i lost a lot of bottom end torque/power....But gained more top end than than i needed...
My pipes were too free flowing [Not enough back-pressure] So ratter then playing around with new slip-ons i put on a set of DK Customs Thunder Torques.....15 Minute job...
And got the bottom end back in spades and the trike ran great for 40 thousand miles after that....
Think reversion and heat retention instead
Nuff Said," Were Burnin Daylight, Lets Ride"(Sober 37 years)
Current ride : 2021 FREEWHEELER M8, oldest ride 1960 FL
A Rose by another name......Bob forget the term back pressure
Think reversion and heat retention instead-
Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar.....
2019 Tri-Glide.......
Not even closeA Rose by another name......
Nuff Said," Were Burnin Daylight, Lets Ride"(Sober 37 years)
Current ride : 2021 FREEWHEELER M8, oldest ride 1960 FL
Hand-grenades and Horse-shoes'.....Not even close
Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar.....
2019 Tri-Glide.......
Now you got itHand-grenades and Horse-shoes'.....
Nuff Said," Were Burnin Daylight, Lets Ride"(Sober 37 years)
Current ride : 2021 FREEWHEELER M8, oldest ride 1960 FL
You can put a good free flowing air cleaner on your '19 and it will run better.
Like Rhino 2 mentioned, you can put aftermarket slip on mufflers and it may run better, or it may not run as well.
Most slip-ons will benefit from the addition of the Thunder Torque Inserts.
But, I believe what your asking is if you put a free flowing air cleaner and free flowing exhaust, will the tune be as good as it is now. Yes, it will. Unlike the Twin Cams the M8 does not get too lean when you swap out the a/c and exhaust.
What I do with my bikes/trikes (and will be doing with my own '19 Tri Glide) is put a good Air Cleaner on them, like the 587 or 606, both of which come with an External Breather System. This will make it run better/stronger.
Then I add slip-on's that I like the look of, and importantly to me, the sound of. This usually makes them run a bit WEAKER in the low rpm's and a bit stronger in the higher rpms.
I then add Thunder Torque Inserts which will boost my torque in the low and mid range to much better than it was stock, and still keep the high rpm's stronger than stock.
Feel free to call or email with any questions.
Kevin
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