ECM Calibration

[470004]

Looking to replace the stock cam with Screamin Eagle SE-255 camshaft (this cam would fit my budget since I am retired and on a fixed income). The trike is a 2013 TriGlide with only the Screamin Eagle A/C and 4" Street Cannon Performance mufflers. ECM calibration was done at the dealer at the time of purchase w/o a purchase of a tuner. The cam installation I will perform myself and since I have the special tools needed. I was going to have the dealer remap the ECM, but now they want me to purchase a tuner and run a dyno tune at a cost of $800.00.

I ask why not just remapped the ECM from their computer like they did for the SE A/C and mufflers? They said the trike will not run correctly. A buddy stated he know an Indy shop where the owners are certified X-HD mechanics. I s/w with them and they said there I can get away from it. I am not looking to make any more changes to the engine after the cam replacement.

[Fearless]

Good luck with your choice of cams I believe I would look for more bottom end torque. I'm sure you have done your homework on the power curve needed for the heavy trikes. I believe those are the cams used in 103 HO MOTORS a remap would be best Travel safe Fred

[Ed H]

Looking to replace the stock cam with Screamin Eagle SE-255 camshaft(this cam would fit my budget since I am retired and on a fixed income). The trike is a 2013 TriGlide with only the Screamin Eagle A/C and 4" Street Cannon Performance mufflers. ECM calibration was done at the dealer at the time of purchase w/o a purchase of a tuner. The cam installation I will perform myself and since I have the special tools needed. I was going to have the dealer remap the ECM, but now they want me to purchase a tuner and run a dyno tune at a cost of $800.00. I ask why not just remapped the ECM from their computer like they did for the SE A/C and mufflers? They said the trike will not run correctly. A buddy stated he know an Indy shop where the owners are certified X-HD mechanics. I s/w with them and they said there I can get away from it. I am not looking to make any more changes to the engine after the cam replacement.

I did not go with HD on ECM calibrations. HD is bound to making any corrections without going down the EPA road. I bought a PC V from Fuel Moto, they set it up for the stage one and pipes. Come spring I am going to take out those 255's (not at all happy with them) and replace with Andrews 57H. Stump pulling power, pass a semi in 6th like it is standing still. FM will send me a new map free, I will down load it into the PC V. If not happy they will send another and another. I will no doubt put the self tuning module on it so it will constantly upgrade.

[Jack Klarich]

# 2 on Power Vision tuner

Very user friendly

https://www.dkcustomproducts.com/

Check with Kevin for pricing

[Fearless]

# 2 on Power Vision tuner

Very user friendly

https://www.dkcustomproducts.com/

Check with Kevin for pricing

Jack that makes the most sense. We both know Power Vision tuners are information central on our trikes so much more than just a tuner. Good thinking Jack

[470004]

Thanks everyone for your input. I will give DK Customs a call.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

+1 on the power vision, it is a great product that will optimize the best power and MPG while minimizing heat from the engine.

The other great thing about a power vision, if you trade your trike, you can use it on another bike by just paying a relicensing fee, and maybe a new cable if needed.

[Wmitz]

Looking to replace the stock cam with Screamin Eagle SE-255 camshaft (this cam would fit my budget since I am retired and on a fixed income). The trike is a 2013 TriGlide with only the Screamin Eagle A/C and 4" Street Cannon Performance mufflers. ECM calibration was done at the dealer at the time of purchase w/o a purchase of a tuner. The cam installation I will perform myself and since I have the special tools needed. I was going to have the dealer remap the ECM, but now they want me to purchase a tuner and run a dyno tune at a cost of $800.00. I ask why not just remapped the ECM from their computer like they did for the SE A/C and mufflers? They said the trike will not run correctly. A buddy stated he know an Indy shop where the owners are certified X-HD mechanics. I s/w with them and they said there I can get away from it. I am not looking to make any more changes to the engine after the cam replacement.

You may want to step back and think about a few things. As others have said the PV is a great tuner. Now the exhaust, do you have the stock exhaust with the cat in it? If so I would highly recommend that the cat is removed for better flow. Next is the cam, if memory serves me correctly there were lots of people with pinging issues with the 255 cam, and if you are considering tuning it yourself it might get frustrating. Take a look at the Woods 222 for the twin cams. I ran one on 12 RGU. It has a nice smooth overall torque ban, comes in early, a bit more power than the 255, and is easier to tune. Just get the correct map from whoever you buy the PV from. Fuel Moto has a ton of dyno sheets you can look at for the 222. Good luck with your choices.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Just to clarify why HD is telling you they need to do a tuner.

HD has some "canned maps" for a few configurations ... they just charge you to "install" them ... usually around $150-200. Seems crazy to me since it takes like 5 minutes. It's not really an install, more of a download.

[470004]

Just to clarify why HD is telling you they need to do a tuner.

HD has some "canned maps" for a few configurations ... they just charge you to "install" them ... usually around $150-200. Seems crazy to me since it takes like 5 minutes. It's not really an install, more of a download.

When I purchase the trike new in 2013, I had the dealer install the Screamin Eagle A/C and 4" Street Cannon Performance mufflers. There was no tuner involved when the dealer perform this remapping? I am just wondering why can't the dealer do the same with the SE-255 cam or are they just trying to sell me a tuner plus dyno tuning for $800.00? I am just trying to keep within my budget since I am retired and on a fixed income. I am in my late 60's and no looking to drag race.

[DK Custom Products]

When I purchase the trike new in 2013, I had the dealer install the Screamin Eagle A/C and 4" Street Cannon Performance mufflers. There was no tuner involved when the dealer perform this remapping? I am just wondering why can't the dealer do the same with the SE-255 cam or are they just trying to sell me a tuner plus dyno tuning for $800.00? I am just trying to keep within my budget since I am retired and on a fixed income. I am in my late 60's and no looking to drag race.

Sorry in advance...I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in this whole conversation.

But first, to answer your question above- They cannot do a remapping for those cams because they do not have a canned map that will work with them. They need to use a tuner of some sort to enable them to build a tune for your bike with the particular configuration your are contemplating.

Now for the monkey wrench-

I would recommend NOT replacing your cams at all right now.

If you do a few less expensive mods, you will have the same, or more, power gain than you would get out of any cam replacement. Plus you would have a more reliable engine.

Then, if at some point in the future you wanted even more power, at that time you could do a cam upgrade and it would yield an even better power increase than if you do a cam upgrade now.

Why do I say this? We have seen it hundreds of times. Folks upgrade their cams (which is a SECOND TIER upgrade) Before having a strong foundation to build on.

Almost always a Trike (or bike) with a strong foundation will outperform a trike with a cam upgrade built on a mediocre foundation.

Below are two links that outline what it takes to have a strong foundation in place before doing any other performance mods.

LINK 1

LINK 2

To be very clear-

With the mediocre SE air cleaner, the engine is not breathing anywhere near optimally. (inexpensive fix for this)

With the stock Street Cannons, power is being robbed by reversion...not as much as some other exhausts, but still not ideal. (inexpensive fix for this)

Most importantly, without cooling intervention, the engine is losing an amazing amount of power due to running hotter than optimal for power generation. (This can be a bit more expensive, but less than the contemplating cams and needed tuning)

As with anything else, having a strong foundation is important to have in place before building anything else on top of it.

Feel free to write or call with any questions.

Kevin

[ultrafxr]

post deleted

[FuzzyWuzHe]

When I purchase the trike new in 2013, I had the dealer install the Screamin Eagle A/C and 4" Street Cannon Performance mufflers. There was no tuner involved when the dealer perform this remapping? I am just wondering why can't the dealer do the same with the SE-255 cam or are they just trying to sell me a tuner plus dyno tuning for $800.00? I am just trying to keep within my budget since I am retired and on a fixed income. I am in my late 60's and no looking to drag race.

What they did with the a/c and pipes (the pipes didn't need remapping. Old rule of thumb, changes before the engine ... a/c, fuel body etc need remap. After the engine, pipes, slip ons etc, usually not.) was too down load their stage one map. Most common upgrade. Almost necessary for the engine to breathe right.

They don't do canned maps for every conceivable configuration. For that they sell you a tuner. And as stated, the are required by EPA law suit to be very "limited" in what they can do. That's where the after market tunes are far superior.

The big advantage to the power vision (and maybe some others) you start with a map that is "close" for your configuration and the you ride. It learns about what's needed to make the engine run cool, efficient and powerful. after the "learning period" you can remove it and no body will know you had it. (maybe HD if they look at it when you get service. Having said that, the power vision stores your original map and you can put it back on whenever you take it to HD.

Another big advantage to the power vision, you can mount it and it will tell you more about what's going on in your engine than you probably want to know. If your eco knows it ... so can you.

All in all, great tool.

As for the 255 cams, I believe those came stock on my 15 tri. I had no issues getting the tri tuned with the power vision and it ran as I thought it should. Smoother, cooler, better mpg's and way better power.

Most of what I've stated is stated before .. particularly in DK's post and I agreed with all he stated ... just maybe put it in less technical terms ... Keven, the K in DK, has more time playing with the Harley platform than most of us have walking ... not saying Kevin is old ... just the he lives and breathes this stuff and has tried almost every thing there is to try.

[Fearless]

What Kevin said; and really could not be stated better from anyone else that I know of. Our old 09' Triglide runs cooler and better than ever and I have no plans on changing cams. Kevin knows what he is talking about. Unless you plan on pulling a heavy trailer do the other Modifications and then see if you need to open the cam chest. just sayin... good luck with your choice. travel safe Fred

[470004]

Want to Thanks all the above for their input. What Kevin stated in his post makes sense and I will hold off on the cam installation at this time. I have no problems holding on to the SE 255 cam and taper adjustable push rods on my accessories shelf.

[Fearless]

Bill so you understand I had not ridden in forty years when we purchased old Shiney 10th, October of 2013. not that I remember. I knew absolutely nothing about Harley's or the heat issues with the Twin Cam engines, here is where I got my education on how to save my legs from burning more so how to save the Motor from self distruction as well. The Power vision tuner, Boyesen intake, external breather, Mighty mite love jugs, floor board spacers, 2" Lift on the fuel tank, and air deflectors. It is now a pleasure to ride anytime. For my old back and messed up wrists I switched out handle bars but that is a very personal thing if you change choose wisely time consuming to do and can be pricey. Good luck on your heat management journey it is a rewarding one and will save you big money in the long run. The oil that was in our triglide is not even dirty with over 4,000 miles when changed not black like before Engine Temps. never over 245 all summer. Travel safe Fred

[tim olson]

Want to Thanks all the above for their input. What Kevin stated in his post makes sense and I will hold off on the cam installation at this time. I have no problems holding on to the SE 255 cam and taper adjustable push rods on my accessories shelf.

I run a 2007 ultra + tleu side car bike, actually more load than a trike, - gearing - air cleaner - exhaust are the big cheap items, i got a old street tuner before the lawsuit to install my own "stage one" - i run a completely open air cleaner - no cover at all, its a K&N with the extra holes plugged with bolts. i run old CVO 4" mufflers with the cat drilled out. exhaust VOLUME is the key to more torque. you want the largest mufflers than you can lay your hands on. note that the same calculations say the muffler exit should be about the size of the exhaust valve - not a popular opinion, but correct. harley can no longer do tune changes for trikes. none EPA approved. the CVO stock cam [255] is a excellent heavy bike cam - but - big but - there was a harley bulletin that i can't lay my hands on just now that said to change the lifters every 7500 miles with high lift cams. most folks also say to change the inner bearings to b168 with high lift cams. I have been sorely tempted to install that cam myself, [my bike is getting a bunch of new bits this spring] but getting a PV or TTS tuner costs more than the cam, inner cam bearings, and lifters. the other issue often not talked about is that my stock 96 will haul me and my wife along at 80 on all but the worst head winds - and to be honest that's fast enough, im way past my 20's where speed was a thrill.