2014-2016 HD Water Pump problems

[Rooster57]

A few days ago I posted this on another existing thread, but decided to remove info and post this on a new thread of its own because maybe others will find it interesting:

Let me say that I am NOT an old sage HD mechanic.......I have a 2016 Tri Glide (water cooled of course) and have been riding only 3 yrs and 32000 miles on this machine.

.......After reading about MANY early water pump failures on 2014-2016 HD water cooled models, I decided to replace my water pump with the newer model pump even though the original one had not failed "YET!!!!!"

........Seems that HD has had such a high failure rate of the original pumps on the 2014-2016 models that they changed the part number and water pump to the new design only. (Best I can tell is this happened the summer of 2018).........Meaning all pumps replaced prior to this time was with the old original pump.........The new pump is radically different from the original and requires the removal of the old thermostat.

........The new pump assembly has no external thermostat and does not require one (I assume something inside the new pump does this function)....This new pump is the same one used on the newer M8's (so says the Dallas HD mechanic)...........The new replacement pump comes in a kit with a redesigned mounting bracket and all new formed hoses, clamps and electric harness adapter.......to install this kit will require the disassembly of both lower fairings as the new hoses must attach to the radiators.



...........I did this job myself so "ANYBODY can do it!" .........The Dallas HD mechanic said it takes him 3.5 hrs for real. (It took me MUCHO longer, but I got it done!)

....Oh yeah: No computer remapping was needed.

.........My extended warranty would have covered the original water pump should it have failed.....BUT, my luck is that it would fail during a long trip somewhere and the local dealer would have to order the part which would mean "Good bye trip plans!"

...........If anyone wants to see the new pump replacement kit and the old parts that will be removed for this job, then please scroll down the page of the following HD forum entry where this dude shows all parts very neatly:

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/new-rushmore-models/1251032-new-twin-cooled-water-pump-part-9.html

[Tucci]

I don't know if this question was answered on another thread. My fw is of course air cooled, but in early May, I and friends of ours will be heading on a trip through Va. Skyline drive, onto the Blue Ridge parkway and continue in the smoky mts. NC and Tn. He's has a 14 triglide, 27,000 mi, and one pump replacement at 13,000. How many miles can a triglide be driven with dead water pump before it effects the engine.

[Rooster57]

I don't know if this question was answered on another thread. My fw is of course air cooled, but in early May, I and friends of ours will be heading on a trip through Va. Skyline drive, onto the Blue Ridge parkway and continue in the smoky mts. NC and Tn. He's has a 14 triglide, 27,000 mi, and one pump replacement at 13,000. How many miles can a triglide be driven with dead water pump before it effects the engine.

....I have read where one dude said he rode over 300 miles and didn't seem to do any damage...........I asked the Dallas HD mechanic the exact question about how far can you drive without water pump...He said that when the pump goes out, then you got an air cooled Harley just like the rest of the Harleys and you can drive it as far as you need to.....Of course the failed pump will throw some diagnostic codes to be sure as its not mapped to run without the water pump....But it WILL run okay he said..............Is it true? I don't know but, That's what he told me......(Of course who likes running with your engine light on?)

Forum - Trike Talk Forum & News





https://www.triketalk.com/forum

[Tucci]

Maybe a mechanic can answer what happens when the water in the engine doesn't circulate. Will it heat up enough to blow a head gasket?

[Rooster57]

Maybe a mechanic can answer what happens when the water in the engine doesn't circulate. Will it heat up enough to blow a head gasket?

That's a good question (I think the water actually cools the exhaust portion of the heads)...... but remember this isn't exactly the same water cooling system as on a car.............Maybe that's why they call it "Twin Cooled?"

......I just read read where another dude said he went almost 1000 miles on a trip to home after his pump went out and all was fine later..........Of course, just because some dude claims it don't mean its so.

......anyway, that's some fine riding ya'll have planned! (I was up in that area last year = most gorgeous!)

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Maybe a mechanic can answer what happens when the water in the engine doesn't circulate. Will it heat up enough to blow a head gasket?

I have traced out the cooling system on the tri and an Ultra limited. It's my belief the mechanic got it right. The pump goes out, I suspect a seal will go too and that will bleed pressure, if not, a rubber hose will probably bleed pressure. I'm guessing the engine would care less about loosing the pump. Just run a tad warmer. I've been told this by several HD mechanics and at least one I trust.

The coolant does indeed only cool the exhaust area of the head. It's my belief the only reason for this is to be able to say the operating range of these engines is a narrower range. I don't know what HD is claiming, maybe like 180*-250*. With out the cooling ... they would need to pass EPA standards at like 30* to 300*. Now they only have to pass in what ever range they claim. This allows them to make the WC engines less lean. A good thing.

[Rooster57]

I have traced out the cooling system on the tri and an Ultra limited. It's my belief the mechanic got it right. The pump goes out, I suspect a seal will go too and that will bleed pressure, if not, a rubber hose will probably bleed pressure. I'm guessing the engine would care less about loosing the pump. Just run a tad warmer. I've been told this by several HD mechanics and at least one I trust.

The coolant does indeed only cool the exhaust area of the head. It's my belief the only reason for this is to be able to say the operating range of these engines is a narrower range. I don't know what HD is claiming, maybe like 180*-250*. With out the cooling ... they would need to pass EPA standards at like 30* to 300*. Now they only have to pass in what ever range they claim. This allows them to make the WC engines less lean. A good thing.

Very Informative Alan! ...and your analogy makes sense too! ....Even if a failed water pump doesn't actually damage the engine over a long ride, it still sucks knowing it "Ain't right"...... and watching your engine light stay on during that same "limped ride" is another bummer! ....Well, I use those Mighty Might fans during all rides and maybe they too would help keep the jugs cool should the water pump fail? ...At least I hope they will.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Well, I use those Mighty Might fans during all rides and maybe they too would help keep the jugs cool should the water pump fail? ...At least I hope they will.

They will continue to cool the Jugs, barring a failure of the fans too. One cools the jugs, the other cools the head at the area near the exhaust. At least that's my understanding. Cooling the heads was IMHO a way to meet EPA Standards and not redesign the whole engine. Personally, I'd like to see a fully water cooled engine in the touring bikes. Something like a larger VRod engine would suit me fine. That would change the "look", "Vibration" and I'm guessing "sound" of the HD touring line and might cost HD some of their base.

This is just my opinion ... and we all know about individual opinions.

[cward59]

They will continue to cool the Jugs, barring a failure of the fans too. One cools the jugs, the other cools the head at the area near the exhaust. At least that's my understanding. Cooling the heads was IMHO a way to meet EPA Standards and not redesign the whole engine. Personally, I'd like to see a fully water cooled engine in the touring bikes. Something like a larger VRod engine would suit me fine. That would change the "look", "Vibration" and I'm guessing "sound" of the HD touring line and might cost HD some of their base.

This is just my opinion ... and we all know about individual opinions.

So, The part number for the newer pump is 26800107?

[Rooster57]

So, The part number for the newer pump is 26800107?

....Yes the part number for the pump (kit assy.) is "26800107".

........just checked my receipt....It reads: 26800107 MODULE CLG SYS.COOLANT PU $352.60

.....The pump and hoses and clamps will all come in the box......the 2 mounting bolts in box will be too small (likely) so use your old ones.......2 or 3 hose clamps in the kit will require a special crimp tool to do the job the Harley way (I just replaced those few with the old hose clamps from the older pump...or you can use some usual worm drive hose clamps) = no big deal........everything you see on that dudes picture is what comes in the box.

[graygoat]

21k miles on my 16 & so far ok. Warranty did pay for a leaking right side radiator over winter. Mighty Mites are on now and I think they will give me a cushion to get to a dealer when the pump goes out.

[Rooster57]

21k miles on my 16 & so far ok. Warranty did pay for a leaking right side radiator over winter. Mighty Mites are on now and I think they will give me a cushion to get to a dealer when the pump goes out.

Well, you know we only hear about the pumps that fail and NOT about the pumps that don't......I had 32K on mine and original pump was still going too.......I had just read so much about these failures on the 2014-2016 pumps ( I personally know 2 people its happened to....1 failure at 15K and one failure at 34K) that I just decided to end the probability and replace it!!!

.....I really do think the Mighty Mites will give a nice cooling cushion should the old pump (or new one) fail.

..........Now, don't get me wrong because I'm sure the new pumps can fail too (any HD part can as we all know!), but "most" of the pump internet chatter I read about failing water pumps seemed to stop when the new M8 pumps started being used as replacements during the summer of 2018......who knows about the the future?

....Interestingly, the new water pump (M8 type) is (I think it was) 60 bucks cheaper than the original old water pump.........so, HD must have really had a problem with the original pump to replace it with a better water pump at a cheaper cost! .....I asked the dealer about this = they had no explanation as to why.

.....Another interesting thing is: I asked the Dallas HD mechanic exactly how much time "the book" says for him to charge for installing the new replacement pump.......He said, "The book doesn't say!" .......I said, "Hmmmmm seems HD's scrambling to fix something here!"

[Jack Klarich]

.....Another interesting thing is: I asked the Dallas HD mechanic exactly how much time "the book" says for him to charge for installing the new replacement pump.......He said, "The book doesn't say!" .......I said, "Hmmmmm seems HD's scrambling to fix something here!"

Very interesting, I wonder how they comp the techs doing the warranty work?

Understanding book time on warranty work is different than normal labor times

[Rooster57]

Very interesting, I wonder how they comp the techs doing the warranty work?

Understanding book time on warranty work is different than normal labor times

....Really good question! ......But, I don't know because I didn't ask................I do know that when I stopped to see the Dallas HD mechanic that I always use, he had just finished his first new water pump install with a 2014-2016 replacement for a couple from Florida (I don't recall which motorcycle it was)............He told me he only charged 2 hrs labor thinking it would just be an easy-peazy usual pump install............But, when he got the new pump kit replacement to his dismay, it took him 3.5 hrs to actually complete the job.......and the couple was waiting......I can't recall if it was warranty work or not.

[Jack Klarich]

....Damn good question! ......But, I don't know because I didn't ask................I do know that when I stopped to see the Dallas HD mechanic that I always use, he had just finished his first new water pump install with a 2014-2016 replacement for a couple from Florida (I don't recall which motorcycle it was)............He told me he only charged 2 hrs labor thinking it would just be an easy-peazy usual pump install............But, when he got the new pump kit replacement to his dismay, it took him 3.5 hrs to actually complete the job.......and the couple was waiting......I can't recall if ii was warranty work or not.

Techs working on book time flat rate hate warranty work

I know this from experience This could IMO be part of the reason for high turn over rate of techs in the industry

[cward59]

....Yes the part number for the pump (kit assy.) is "26800107".

........just checked my receipt....It reads: 26800107 MODULE CLG SYS.COOLANT PU $352.60

.....The pump and hoses and clamps will all come in the box......the 2 mounting bolts in box will be too small (likely) so use your old ones.......2 or 3 hose clamps in the kit will require a special crimp tool to do the job the Harley way (I just replaced those few with the old hose clamps from the older pump...or you can use some usual worm drive hose clamps) = no big deal........everything you see on that dudes picture is what comes in the box.

Thanks for the information on this.

[cward59]

....Yes the part number for the pump (kit assy.) is "26800107".

........just checked my receipt....It reads: 26800107 MODULE CLG SYS.COOLANT PU $352.60

.....The pump and hoses and clamps will all come in the box......the 2 mounting bolts in box will be too small (likely) so use your old ones.......2 or 3 hose clamps in the kit will require a special crimp tool to do the job the Harley way (I just replaced those few with the old hose clamps from the older pump...or you can use some usual worm drive hose clamps) = no big deal........everything you see on that dudes picture is what comes in the box.

I just found this for 267.80 free shipping.

[Rooster57]

I just found this for 267.80 free shipping.

I have no doubts this pump can be found cheaper than the HD dealer..................May I ask you where you found it?......and is it the complete kit I wonder?...or just the pump alone?

....seems like I read there was a cheaper place to get it somewhere....but I did not follow up.

[cward59]

I have no doubts this pump can be found cheaper than the HD dealer..................May I ask you where you found it?......and is it the complete kit I wonder?...or just the pump alone?

It has that part number and it was at Surdyke. I want to say its the entire kit.

[Rooster57]

It has that part number and it was at Surdyke. I want to say its the entire kit.

I just went to surdyke.com website..............the only way I could find the item was to enter the part number in search and yep-thats what their price is.......However, it doesn't show a picture so anyone whos' going to order it might want to call their website at the number listed and verify if that number is for the complete kit (including hoses, clamps, ect.).........The old original pump hoses will NOT work with the newer replacement M8 pump which will have preformed hoses in the kit required to fit that newer designed pump.

...if it does, then it's a great price! Oh yeah!

.......Though others on HD forum say they have ordered from these people I think I read; I have not and do not know them.