Likes Likes:  15
Thanks Thanks:  1
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: Slow speed steering wobble with 2008 Suzuki Trike

  1. #11
    Lehman / Champion Guru
    Gold Club Member
    Lee H. Mann's Avatar
    User ID
    4486
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Martinsburg, WV
    Posts
    4,153

    Cool

    William, If Randy can't help, try this guy.

    https://www.customtripletrees.com/
    Jim Murphy
    Lehman Tech since 1998
    Champion Tech since 2005
    Lehman & Champion Dealer Owner Operator
    Iron Butt Rider 2001

    WHEN HELP IS OFFERED, A SIMPLE "THANK YOU" IS APPRECIATED.

  2. #12
    300+ Posts dougv's Avatar
    User ID
    14428
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Torrington,Ct
    Posts
    319

    Default

    Jim I was going to mention the rear tire pressure but you mentioned 20 pounds on the rears and 38 pounds on the front, hot. What would be the cold temperature pressure, I have the Avon trike tire for the front and everywhere I see, it should be set to 41 pounds cold. I have set my rears to as low as 20 pounds cold.

    I have an older CSC sport on a 97 Goldwing with a straight axle and did notice the shake over rough roads but it is better with the lower rear tire pressures. I ran into a guy in Florida that was running over 40 pounds in his rear with an independent suspension and was complaining of a rough ride.....no doubt it was....

  3. #13
    Lehman / Champion Guru
    Gold Club Member
    Lee H. Mann's Avatar
    User ID
    4486
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Martinsburg, WV
    Posts
    4,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dougv View Post
    Jim I was going to mention the rear tire pressure but you mentioned 20 pounds on the rears and 38 pounds on the front, hot. What would be the cold temperature pressure, I have the Avon trike tire for the front and everywhere I see, it should be set to 41 pounds cold. I have set my rears to as low as 20 pounds cold.

    I have an older CSC sport on a 97 Goldwing with a straight axle and did notice the shake over rough roads but it is better with the lower rear tire pressures. I ran into a guy in Florida that was running over 40 pounds in his rear with an independent suspension and was complaining of a rough ride.....no doubt it was....
    Optimum tire pressure should variate between 3 and 4 pounds from hot to cold. And I don't mean cold at below freezing temps. Cold temperatures of 55-75 degrees.

    Get a cheap pyrometer pyrometer.jpg to check tire temperatures cold and then hot after normal riding at highway speeds. I would Never exceed 170 F on the front tire. Increasing the air pressure 1 or 2 pounds will decrease the temperatures significantly.

    Most people don't pay that much attention to their air pressures and allow them to run low creating rapid wear and overheated temperatures.

    Keeping the air pressure a little higher kinda solves this problem.

    If you are the rider that keeps his eye on tire pressures, the recommended pressure is on the side of the tire.

    If you are a spirited rider, up the recommended pressure 1 or 2 pounds.

    If you carry a combined rider/passenger weight, do the same as above.

    Rear tire pressures for a Trike should be the same rule, except for manufacturers pressure recommendations.

    Start at 20 pounds and see what the pressure differentials are (3 to 4 pounds) and the temperatures are.
    Jim Murphy
    Lehman Tech since 1998
    Champion Tech since 2005
    Lehman & Champion Dealer Owner Operator
    Iron Butt Rider 2001

    WHEN HELP IS OFFERED, A SIMPLE "THANK YOU" IS APPRECIATED.

  4. #14
    10+ Posts OntarioLes's Avatar
    User ID
    29795
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Napanee, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    18

    Default Thanks!!

    Hi Lee H. Mann,

    Thanks for the tip! Also I did adjust the air pressures with some improvement in the head shake. Checking with Randy and will look into Custom Triple Trees.

    This forum is amazing - great ideas and feedback!
    OntarioLes

    Eastern Ontario
    2008 Suzuki Boulevard Trike

  5. #15
    300+ Posts dougv's Avatar
    User ID
    14428
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Torrington,Ct
    Posts
    319

    Default

    Lee, I'll have to try that. I was concerned about lower pressure in the front tire and rolling off the rim since the front sees a lot more side pressure than a normal bike. I think our shop may have a temp sensor I can borrow, if not will look for one. I did have the front down lower than what I would normally have it set at and noticed the steering force was a lot higher. At 41 pounds the front end is pretty rough over bumps.....thanks for the info

  6. #16
    50+ Posts ProudTexson's Avatar
    User ID
    12155
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Big Spring Texas
    Posts
    58

    Default

    The only place I can find a rake kit for a Lehman Tramp was this place Quoted me a price of 925.00 push shipping. To high for my blood.

    I sent and email and that what I got back

    https://www.customtripletrees.com/

  7. #17
    10+ Posts
    User ID
    29348
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Alexandria
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Rake and Trail on trikes...

    I have no doubt the measure of importance of this to many riders of trikes. However, with that said, in terms of wobble of the front end at any speed there is one cause of that and one only. Specifically that would be that the plane of the rear axle is not in a directional plane exactly 90 degrees to the front wheel. While there can be little doubt that rake and trail may mitigate the occurrence of this wobble, it is important not to lose sight of the forest for the trees.

    Having setup several trikes with and also without HD FXR rubber-mounted type frames, in my experience, no trike minus the isometric properties of the rubber mount frame should exhibit wobble of any significance at the front forks when properly aligned. To give the best possible representation of this, I will use what is available on the keyboard to illustrate. _|_. Here the vertical line represents your front wheel in its straight ahead position and the two horizontal lines represent the plane of your rear axle. The only thing that will make that front end wobble is when those two alignments are skewed. While turning the handlebars does change this relationship somewhat, it still does not induce wobble, it simply steers the vehicle in a relatively expected fashion. When traveling straight ahead the front end should have an equally applied lateral force on the front wheel. If the 90 degree angle of relationship between these two planes is not properly enforced, the wobble is the immediate effect of the whole geometry of your chassis perpetually attempting to right itself as it struggles to deal with two differing lateral forces applied to the front end from one side as opposed to the other by the rear wheels.

    Further I will note that the amount of distance outward to either side of the center point of the front wheel also has no wobble-inducing exertion of force on the front end. Example, ___|_, where the end of each horizontal line would represent the distance of the tire when measured from the plane of the front wheel, even this will not induce excessive front end wobble. Even sidecars must be setup to observe this rule of physics. Furthermore, wobble (when it exists at all) just as "Critical Speed of rotating mass" will be accentuated or more or less prominent at certain RPMs or speed, it still exists solely due to forces of physics which are diametrically opposed and at odds with each other.

    The absolute best example of this I can point to for a true real-world example is in a true Positive Traction rear end or actual live axle attached to a 3 wheeler. In such cases, a 3 wheeled vehicle is virtually next to impossible to move setting at complete rest with the front wheel cocked at an angle! Until the front end is used to remove the characteristic opposing force of the 2 rear wheels trying to move forward at differing rates of rotation by righting the whole structure back into a perfect right angle to one another, the structure is fighting itself. This opposing force does not correct itself with speed, it usually only serves to get further pronounced with more speed. Wobble however is not a thing we as trike riders must accept as a reality. More on this further down in this post.

    There was at one point in time a significant number of live axle trikes on the road as most trikes (other than the servi-cars) were being built by custom creators at one time. And to be clear, any trike configuration of this nature had to be seriously manhandled and also would have inherent wobble at times in maneuvering, not to mention violent instances of flipping over. Even with the isometric setup there is a nominal amount of wobble due to the fact that the perfect relationship of 90 degrees is not set as a result of the rubber giving way at some points even if for very brief moments. Rake and trail adjustments on a trike will indeed serve to make the vehicle easier to steer under certain conditions, but it should never be the first avenue of correction in stopping wobble.

    Given that one has the typical adjustment inherent in chains and sprockets or belts and pulleys, it is very easy to use the immediately discernible forces in opposition here in order to adjust this relationship of the rear end to the front end. This can be done by loosening both sides of the binding force of each side of the axle where they are attached to the rear end. With both sides loose, simply grab the handlebars and turn them even a little bit side to side and observe how the sliders move within whatever means they are normally attached to the vehicle. Even the slightest of movement of the front end will be easily visible in the sliding areas of pivot where one would adjust the chain or belt. Now, armed with this knowledge, move the rear wheel closest to the actual drive-line (chain or belt) very near to the tension you desire your chain or belt to be when properly adjusted. This should be done with the front wheel as straight as possible. Bind that side down tight. With the one side clamped down tight, now go to the handlebars and give them a good left to right tug. Moving the front end even just a little will force the other side to come to rest at the point of least resistance. Allow the front end to come to rest at center or the straight ahead steering position. Hold it there and bind the other side down and then recheck the tension of your belt or chain. If the tension is within specs now roll the bike forward just a few inches and observe the force on the front wheel as you attempt to roll both rear wheels straight ahead at the same rate. If the front end rolls even a few inches before falling to one side or the other violently or rapidly, then you have probably achieved very close to the perfect relationship in terms of true.

    Hope this helps someone having the wobble experience with their trikes. Let no one convince you however that wobble is something all trikes do. This just is not so if everything is properly aligned. And again, while it is a factor of very minimal consequence with a rubber-mounted frame, it should absolutely not be a factor with typical chassis alignment outside of this one exception. And in closing, I apologize for what seems like an exceptionally wordy post here, I was simply trying to cover all of the many various scenarios of the equipment and methods utilized by each in order to accomplish the desired objective.

  8. #18
    10+ Posts OntarioLes's Avatar
    User ID
    29795
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Napanee, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Thank you for this detailed explanation of the geometry that is involved with the steering of a trike. Combine this with an understanding of tire air pressure as well as rake and trail I feel better prepared to really enjoy my trike. Some trike riders I have talked with have very little insight to their three-wheeled ride.

    SmartAceWolf - thank you for taking the time to post this. I am sure other trike riders will be grateful!
    OntarioLes

    Eastern Ontario
    2008 Suzuki Boulevard Trike

  9. #19
    Official Mascot Trail Blazer's Avatar
    User ID
    10999
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    huntington , texas
    Posts
    1,064

    Default hello William

    I still get a wobble on some ruff roads at slow speeds. but only happens on ruff roads, I did get a low speed ( 23 or 30 mph) when showing down after looking at everything we could think of it turned out the front tire was cupped just a little I changed it out and no more descending slow speed wobble

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Slow speed steering wobble and damper?
    By CaveManDave in forum VW Powered Trikes
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-06-2016, 07:27 AM
  2. slow speed wobble
    By Dragon in forum Stallion Trikes
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-19-2015, 11:04 PM
  3. Front Wheel Wobble at SLOW Speed
    By WCGeez in forum Brand Specific Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-28-2015, 08:18 PM
  4. Low Speed Wobble
    By Alan Oakley in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-19-2010, 05:17 PM
  5. Slow speed head shake
    By Saltywheels in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-02-2010, 04:23 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •