New Word

[njtrike]

I learned a new word in my HD vocabulary. It is sump issues. Returning from a ride to the Black Hills on the last hundred miles my 2018 triglide stared to lose power and was burning a lot of fuel. When I got home I checked the oil and it had a burnt smell. My dealer Historic Harley in Topeka Kansas tore the motor down and determined that nothing was wrong or damaged except that my motor didn't have the updated oil pump that the 18 models should of had that was supposed to fix the issue of oil not being removed from the sump quick enough. If the oil in the sump starts running above 8 ounces it can affect the flywheel and cause a loss of power and cause the oil to get too hot. No lights or codes thrown. This makes me wonder how the manufacturing process actually works. When I get this trike back ( has 10k ) I plan to put it through some real tests because I have a feeling it isn't going to be the same as before I learned this new word. Prior to the 18 I rode a 10 and put a bunch of miles on it with no issues. The 18 in my opinion was far superior in performance versus the 10. Hanging out at the Historic Harley Dealership is a pleasure due to the Evel Knievel Museum being there, a BBQ Restaurant, and coffee hangout for us old guys. Also I might add they are a great dealer and have a top notch service team. Hopefully this will turn out as desired because I’m getting too old to experience a high level of stress.

[rhino 2]

I learned a new word in my HD vocabulary. It is sump issues. Returning from a ride to the Black Hills on the last hundred miles my 2018 triglide stared to lose power and was burning a lot of fuel. When I got home I checked the oil and it had a burnt smell. My dealer Historic Harley in Topeka Kansas tore the motor down and determined that nothing was wrong or damaged except that my motor didn't have the updated oil pump that the 18 models should of had that was supposed to fix the issue of oil not being removed from the sump quick enough. If the oil in the sump starts running above 8 ounces it can affect the flywheel and cause a loss of power and cause the oil to get too hot. No lights or codes thrown. This makes me wonder how the manufacturing process actually works. When I get this trike back ( has 10k ) I plan to put it through some real tests because I have a feeling it isn't going to be the same as before I learned this new word. Prior to the 18 I rode a 10 and put a bunch of miles on it with no issues. The 18 in my opinion was far superior in performance versus the 10. Hanging out at the Historic Harley Dealership is a pleasure due to the Evel Knievel Museum being there, a BBQ Restaurant, and coffee hangout for us old guys. Also I might add they are a great dealer and have a top notch service team. Hopefully this will turn out as desired because I’m getting too old to experience a high level of stress.

Not a new word for me my 17 did it twice.........

[1dn5up]

If you’re smart you will trade it in ☎️

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Before I rant ..... I am a dyed in the wool Harley fan. Have been since I turned 16 and bought a 1965 basket case (salvaged title) sportster. Does it get in your blood ... don't know ... does it hypnotize you ... don't know ... is it the thump thump thump ... don't know ... but whatever it is ... I got it bad.

Have I ventured away when I got ticked off ... yes ... did I venture away when my wallet wouldn't support it ... yes ... but I have always come back ... don't know why.

So, How do I really feel about Harley? I believe the soul of the company has been destroyed by the money grubbing corporate jerks who bought the company back from AMF ... a huge percent of the bike is made else where. Trump went to bat for them ... and as soon as he announced tariff's to help with trade deficits, HD spat in his face and said because of his tariff's, they were moving some of their production to indonesia ... a plan hatched long before Trump was in office, all about shipping to Europe.

You need three sets of tools to work on them. They will void your warrantee for any reason (my dealer actually told me when I did the 5k service on my 15 Tri, we can void your warrantee for not having the service done by a dealer ... I told him I'd see him in court), because it helps the bottom line. Reminds me of the movie The American President where Michael Douglas is "too busy trying to keep his job instead of doing his job". Harley Davidson is too busy trying to cut costs/quality trying to keep their company, rather than make a machine that they can be proud of. Would that mean a totally water cooled engine? Don't know. I would rather see Harley make totally different bikes that you could ride 100k miles than the direction they are going. Can it be done? Honda and BMW make touring bikes that can, for about the same cost.

Alex Bozmoski the chief engineer of new products said:

The new eight-valve engine seeks two broad goals. One is to make greater power and torque while being emissions-compliant, fuel-efficient, and highly reliable. The other is a trend visible across the vehicle industry—to achieve world-class “ride feeling” through chassis, suspension, and driveline refinement.

Doesn't sound like it's too reliable ... or maybe it was just not ready for prime time. Seems to me the concept of two plugs for each cylinder is a very old one, maybe refined some, but still not a totally new engine. My local Harley dealer has told me several times that "there is not even service memos about the M8's". It's one thing to lay an egg, it's quiet another to deny you did.

The owner of the local HD dealer told me one day that HD doesn't need to make more longevity based products. He told me the average owner of his HD purchased new, trades it with between 7.5k and 15k miles. So there is no need for longevity. That's the mind set.

Harley has thought out of the box a few times .. the VRod comes to mind ... I never heard a single issue with the engine like they have with the M8 (big issues) ... but they only put that engine in a metric looking cruiser. Why not make it a little bigger, and put it in a cruising bike ... chrome it out.

Another example of "out of their box thinking" is these 500 and 750 cc bikes to attract the "new generations" ... how are they selling? Another example, the "promised electric" bike. That might attract a new market, but they will loose their hard core fans.

Don't get me wrong, HD does some really good things. Nobody designs cooler looking bikes in the world (Indian is close). When I ride a motorcycle, I want to see and feel the engine, nobody does that like HD. Would I give up the feel the engine thing if doing away with the "engineered vibration" meant I didn't need to work on it all the time or spend huge amounts of money to get it to last 50k miles ... you bet. In an ideal world, I'd love to have a Tri Glide with a Gold Wing engine that was exposed and chromed out like the HD engine. Not gonna happen.

Another thing Harley does better than any other motorcycle company in the world is Marketing. No other manufacturer has the accessory line like Harley. Gold Wings have a huge after market accessory market, but, very little from Honda itself.

I'm guessing most of the Harley Motor clothes division is NOT made in the USA and the quality shows. A friend of mine bought his wife a $450 Harley Leather Jacket (Willie G design) for her birthday. It literally fell apart in 6 months, the local dealer told him they would get it repaired for him. If I remember correctly, it was made in Pakistan or some such.

I love American Pickers, Why, because they consistently find 80 to 100 year old Harley bikes that can be restored or still run. How many of the post AMF bikes are gonna be around in 80 years? I was not a big fan of AMF, but, they saved Harley Davidson ... they actually made improvement to safety and reliability of the bikes.

The big question is ... What company is gonna be around to save Harley this time, don't think it will happen ... just hope it's not in my lifetime. That would break my heart.

So, am I jumping ship, nope .... I just am very upset what the corporate weenies have done to my beloved Harley's.

Rant Over ... sometimes ya just gotta vent. This will probably be deleted as manufacturer bashing, but that's not my intent ... obviously ... I love Harley Davidson.

[1dn5up]

Yup, more hp , torque , cui , all = heat and premature failure. Especially on air cooled internal combustion motors. Cooling fans do work. Yup there ugly , but they work. Porsche and the VW PROVED IT. My evo had 65k before a rebuild , only cause the leak down readings were low , and struggled to start. Other than bearings , rings , everything else was reused. (We threw in a balancing, and road cam ) The reliability is there on the 103 , ect. But the heat is the culprit.

So it’s a love it or leave situation.

BTW ,

[rhino 2]

After a while they are going to run out of people who will still drink the Kool-Aid......

[MDO]

I like mine, but the MoCo could do things better. For the price of our trikes, the should have a 5 year warranty. Other manufacturers do it and they could too.

If you say you build a quality product & charge a premium price, back it with a top notch warranty program.

If your ride develops a minor problem, get it fixed and make them do it, if you didn't cause the problem.

The sumping & the tranny to primary transfer are both fixable, so make them do it.

I am shocked to hear an 18 M8 had the old oil pump, they were to have purged the older version. They definitely need to improve their quality control process.

[Gray Biker]

Not to get into a argument.... But you have your story wrong.... " I believe the soul of the company has been destroyed by the money grubbing corporate jerks who bought the company back from AMF "...

It was the money grabbers from AMF that took HD down... They saved them from bankruptcy... But they were out to drain all the money out of the name that they could. Around here. Nobody would buy one of the "Bowling Balls" And if you went in to buy anything that wasn't AMF it was obsolete.... They were so good for business I bought a 650 twin Yamaha... The "Money Grabbers" that bought it from AMF Made a bike that people would ride, and it actually ran long enough to ride...

Oh and J&P and many other after market companies made lots of money because of their way of treating the customers...

Can you say Evo... Then they sold stock and started making money for the stock holders instead of making good bikes... Just like every other company.... As for the warranty they will try anything to get out of paying until you bring up the federal law suit that states if they tell you, you have to use their oil or what ever to keep the warranty they have to supply the parts free...

When I was working at a Mack dealer they tried the , you have to use our oil thing.... I printed off the court case.... That was the last I heard anything of..."You have to use our shit"

As with all vehicles there are some bad ones out there... But others run just fine with no major problems... And most times people only post about the bad ones... Imagine that ...

By the way, I looked at newer Trikes at Sturgis last year and did lots of reading posts... I bought a low mile 2012, I'm staying away from the new engine...

[trike lady]

Actually a chromed out exposed Goldwing engine can be found in a Valkyrie and with 6 carbs to boot.

[rhino 2]

Actually a chromed out exposed Goldwing engine can be found in a Valkyrie and with 6 carbs to boot.

I had a Valk two wheeler that was a show stopper....Just a little too big for my style of riding...That was another one i should have never let go....

[Peter A.]

I totally agree, and have been saying that for a number of years, the MoCo does NOT

give a damn about longevity or quality control! When I first started riding Harley’s

in 1970, the one concern and desire I had was to have the RIDE/LOOK of the ‘ole

school (1940, 50’s) look! Loved those old bikes + leather helmets, caps, etc.

Back in the day we enjoyed lubing that chain and wrenching in general on a Saturday

then going for THE RIDE!

i still ride/enjoy my 1988 EVO with 276 k miles on it (rebuilt but still orig. engine) but

even now/already I have issues with getting parts for it (MoCo’s ten year rule on parts

sucks).......wish I could find a nice original Pan or Shovel, HA.

At 75 yrs. I still (thank the Lord) ride but lean more & more toward my HD Trike (2010

with 104 k miles on it.

End of my rant..........you all ride SAFE!

[Mykneesbehurtin]

As i have posted before i have had a number of issues with my 17 but as of yet its not been the engine (knock on Wood).But this is the first HD i have ever owned that i felt the need to get an extended warranty.So July 31 it goes back in for the 4th time for oil transfer into the primary,already had the "fix' installed. So now they remove the fix and vent the primary,just another bandaid as far as i see it.

I dont think trading in is the answer because the latest service bulletin covers 17-19 bikes.This engine has been out for 3 soon to be 4 years one would think that they would have come up with the cause first then the solution.I have been a HD fan since 1989 and owned only HD,but at what point does one say uncle.I truly hope those of you that own a M8 have many miles of smiles but when you have one that gives you lots of issues it does have a way of wiping the smile off your face.

If Indian would make a factory trike i think that it would give HD a good run for its money,as long as it wasn't to ugly lol. I would test ride one for sure.

[MDO]

Hopefully the venting should fix the problem. I have a Freewheeler and have been lucky as far as the engine. I'm very impressed with the way it runs.

[Jack Klarich]

I am reading this thread but staying out of it

[MDO]

I am reading this thread but staying out of it

Why start now Jump in the deep end head 1st, like everyone else here.

[Jack Klarich]

Why start now Jump in the deep end head 1st, like everyone else here.

I fear this thread will go sideways and OFF topic

[Wmitz]

To the op, I had an 18, it sumped 3 times, started around 2700 miles. Never ran right after that. Another issue after that with the suspension they couldn’t find, so I traded it in for 19 Ultra Limited. So far the 114 and the bike has been perfect, with 6000 mile on the clock. Test rode a 19 tri, way better than the 18, especially the trans. Waiting to see what the 20’s are like.

[MDO]

To the op, I had an 18, it sumped 3 times, started around 2700 miles. Never ran right after that. Another issue after that with the suspension they couldn’t find, so I traded it in for 19 Ultra Limited. So far the 114 and the bike has been perfect, with 6000 mile on the clock. Test rode a 19 tri, way better than the 18, especially the trans. Waiting to see what the 20’s are like.

I wasn't aware there were changes to the transmission on the 19's

[Wmitz]

I wasn't aware there were changes to the transmission on the 19's

The trans on my 18 tri wasn’t smooth at all. My 19 Ultra Limited, and the 19 tri and freewheeler I tested were the smoothest trans shifting I have ever experienced. Have no idea if they updated something, but the difference that I saw and felt were tremendous.

[MDO]

The trans on my 18 tri wasn’t smooth at all. My 19 Ultra Limited, and the 19 tri and freewheeler I tested were the smoothest trans shifting I have ever experienced. Have no idea if they updated something, but the difference that I saw and felt were tremendous.

Redline with Shockproof made my 17 Freewheeler shift like it had an updated tranny.