Boom Trike Peugeot ECU

[RFG]

Hi Trikers,

I have a 2017 Boom Trike from Germany, fitted with 2 litre Peugeot engine and automatic gearbox. All sensors are reading ok. When I need to stop or slow to walking speed to give way to traffic, the engine revs keep slowing down until the engine stops, unless I bump it into neutral and pump the throttle to keep it running. It will start after stopping but will repeat that behaviour at the next stop. 3 different mechanics / auto electricians have said the ECU has "locked up". The timing is 8-14 degrees retarded when it should be advanced. It is down on power on what it should be. It uses a bit more fuel than I think it should. Evidently Boom have fitted an after-market ECU which is readable but NOT programmable, the settings cannot be changed.

Q. Does anyone know of a way to re-map the existing ECU?

Q. Does anyone know of another brand of ECU, compatible with this engine and gearbox?

Q. Does anyone have a solution to this problem?

Many thanks, RFG

Port Macquarie, Australia

[rhino 2]

Randell...............Welcome to Trike-Talk.............

[1dn5up]

Randall , electronics are great when they work. Sounds like a good old carburetor Is needed. I would 86 the injection .Ride safe.

BTW, love the wheelbase on them .

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Welcome to the Gang from Western Colorado.

Can't help with this issue, but, in general, there has to be some sort of remapping software/unit to make that happen. Maybe contact the engine manufacturer or as stated, go back to a carb, although that kind seems extreme. Surely somebody somewhere has done a remap on that engine .

[Gorilla]

Randall welcome,

Not a lot of Boom trikers on here but maybe one of our electronic wizards can think of something.

[tomg]

In the past I have added "sensor upgrades" and was instructed to disconnect the negative battery ground for about a minute and hopefully when reconnected and started it will read the airflow and reset it's self. Just a thought. Tomg

[FuzzyWuzHe]

In the past I have added "sensor upgrades" and was instructed to disconnect the negative battery ground for about a minute and hopefully when reconnected and started it will read the airflow and reset it's self. Just a thought. Tomg

Not a bad idea ... old saying in computers, "When in doubt, don't scream and shout, do a hard reset!". Basically what tomg said, disconnect power, wait, reconnect and see if everything resets ... couldn't hurt, cheap, easy potential fix.

[Jack Klarich]

I have a couple of questions, how did you come to the conclusion the sensors are reading OK? And how did the techs reach the conclusion the ECM is locked up? Has anyone tried to scan the ECM for codes? Does the dash have a check engine light? Has it ever come on?

More info would be a big plus. Does this scooter have a diagnostic port similar to this

[RFG]

Randall , electronics are great when they work. Sounds like a good old carburetor Is needed. I would 86 the injection .Ride safe.

BTW, love the wheelbase on them .

Thanks Frankie, you're right, I'd LOVE a carbie! I use a quote similar to your "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it". Mine is "Better to be looking AT it than looking FOR it". Cheers!

[RFG]

I have a couple of questions, how did you come to the conclusion the sensors are reading OK? And how did the techs reach the conclusion the ECM is locked up? Has anyone tried to scan the ECM for codes? Does the dash have a check engine light? Has it ever come on?

More info would be a big plus. Does this scooter have a diagnostic port similar to this

Hi Jack, thanks for the interest mate. 3 x techs have diagnosed the sensors as ok. The first one found a faulty O2 sensor and replaced that, the other sensors all read ok. Yes, the techs have tried for codes and come up empty handed. No check engine light. Yes, it has a diagnostic port similar to your pic. The ECU can be read but nothing can be changed, or at least I haven't found anyone who has the equipment to change it. It may not be "locked up" but evidently it's faulty. An after market unit would probably fix it but the problem being there is a second ECU for the auto gearbox and we need to find a unit that will talk to the gearbox ECU. Quite frustrating! Cheers

[RFG]

Welcome to the Gang from Western Colorado.

Can't help with this issue, but, in general, there has to be some sort of remapping software/unit to make that happen. Maybe contact the engine manufacturer or as stated, go back to a carb, although that kind seems extreme. Surely somebody somewhere has done a remap on that engine .

Hey Alan, thanks mate. I agree, somebody somewhere must have done a remap on that engine!

[RFG]

In the past I have added "sensor upgrades" and was instructed to disconnect the negative battery ground for about a minute and hopefully when reconnected and started it will read the airflow and reset it's self. Just a thought. Tomg

Great thought tomg. I've just phone the techs and asked the question. They said that had not done that, so I will try it myself. The techs advised they are sure it's a programming issue but a simple solution is always the best place to start! I've also been told that the ignition should be turned on for 10 seconds before starting, or it can upset the ECU. I had never done that. I'll try your solution first, cheers!

[Jack Klarich]

Randall, Welcome to Trike Talk

1 more question for you. When your techs checked your ECM did their scanner give them a VIN? Most good scanners will, this will help to narrow your search for a new ECM. Best of luck I am amazed with the amount of retarded ignition you are seeing

[vwbug72501]

somebody somewhere must have done a remap on that engine!

Rabbit Hole Alert!!!

From my experience, moving into the area of remapping any ECU will lead you into an unbelievable myriad of intentionally vague and misleading information. 90% of which is false and just plain wrong!!! You can start researching the remapping by first finding out what model of Peugeot runs that particular engine/trans combination. If it exists in a "performance" model or in a sedan/coupe that is ralleyed, drifted, etc. then you may be able to find a forum where they discuss these performance issues. There are also CANBUS forums out there that discuss modifications of the communication protocols used by the various controllers in vehicles.

This is a whole new world that will make your brain hurt! It is not insurmountable. Unfortunately, most newer systems require keying to a VIN and that usually requires some kind of proprietary equipment to achieve this goal. In the USA, many are afraid of running afoul of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the associated liabilities and fines. In this environment there are a lot of snake oil salesmen ready to take advantage of the ill informed and uneducated so proceed cautiously and verify the facts as best you can before jumping in.

Good Luck and keep us updated.

[Sidecarbill]

Well we never remapped anything, when a car had a problem we searched for the problem, not a work around. When a car doesn't run right and doesn't show codes it's usually a mechanical problem. Could be a break in the intake hose, a vacuum leak or a bad gasket. Put a smoke machine on it and check for leaks.

[RFG]

Randall, Welcome to Trike Talk

1 more question for you. When your techs checked your ECM did their scanner give them a VIN? Most good scanners will, this will help to narrow your search for a new ECM. Best of luck I am amazed with the amount of retarded ignition you are seeing

Hey Jack, I can't contact the first 2 techs at the moment to ask about the VIN. I have a VIN number from registration papers only. That VIN is apparently not compatible with Peugeot VINs in Australia (of course, why would it be?!!) The techs were also amazed (as I was too) about the amount of retarded timing. The 3rd tech could not even get his equipment to read. He is trying to source an after market unit with new wiring loom. He advised against spending the money an importing a replacement ECU from the manufacturers because it may not fix the problem if it happens to be something else. If he can source another programmable unit, with new wiring loom, which will talk to the gearbox ECU, I would be happy to go down that road, because a lot more workshops across the country will have the equipment to check and re-program should I need that done in the future.

[RFG]

Hey Jack, I can't contact the first 2 techs at the moment to ask about the VIN. I have a VIN number from registration papers only. That VIN is apparently not compatible with Peugeot VINs in Australia (of course, why would it be?!!) The techs were also amazed (as I was too) about the amount of retarded timing. The 3rd tech could not even get his equipment to read. He is trying to source an after market unit with new wiring loom. He advised against spending the money an importing a replacement ECU from the manufacturers because it may not fix the problem if it happens to be something else. If he can source another programmable unit, with new wiring loom, which will talk to the gearbox ECU, I would be happy to go down that road, because a lot more workshops across the country will have the equipment to check and re-program should I need that done in the future.

Contacted techs and the VIN did not display. I only have the VIN off registration papers.

[RFG]

Well we never remapped anything, when a car had a problem we searched for the problem, not a work around. When a car doesn't run right and doesn't show codes it's usually a mechanical problem. Could be a break in the intake hose, a vacuum leak or a bad gasket. Put a smoke machine on it and check for leaks.

thanks and good call Sidecarbill, that's been done to no avail

[RFG]

Rabbit Hole Alert!!!

From my experience, moving into the area of remapping any ECU will lead you into an unbelievable myriad of intentionally vague and misleading information. 90% of which is false and just plain wrong!!! You can start researching the remapping by first finding out what model of Peugeot runs that particular engine/trans combination. If it exists in a "performance" model or in a sedan/coupe that is ralleyed, drifted, etc. then you may be able to find a forum where they discuss these performance issues. There are also CANBUS forums out there that discuss modifications of the communication protocols used by the various controllers in vehicles.

This is a whole new world that will make your brain hurt! It is not insurmountable. Unfortunately, most newer systems require keying to a VIN and that usually requires some kind of proprietary equipment to achieve this goal. In the USA, many are afraid of running afoul of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the associated liabilities and fines. In this environment there are a lot of snake oil salesmen ready to take advantage of the ill informed and uneducated so proceed cautiously and verify the facts as best you can before jumping in.

Good Luck and keep us updated.

Thanks Tom for the advice. I hear what you are saying and I'll take it on board. It's all out of my league and I take advice from those who know more. I came from the days of carbies, using a timing light, gapping my own plugs and tuning my own cars. Unfortunately those days are long gone!

[Sidecarbill]

Ok not beat a dead horse here,but I don't know the capabilities of those involved. So I know I shouldn't assume. But if this vehicle ran right before and doesn't now then something changed. If never ran right it's a different story, going by something as simple as a spark plug change. Some cars read spark knock at the plug. Wrong brand plug retarded timing. I don't know anything about Peugeots. But if it has variable timing cams and they are not phased right, you won't be able advance the timing far enough. So improper installation of a timing belt or chain will create this problem. So I would think the real key to what's going on here is whether it ever ran right. Good luck with your project.