Pro Action 14" Shocks and 14" Comfort Lift Combo Questions

[FuzzyWuzHe]

I have just over 500 miles on this shock set up and most of that is here in my little valley. Mostly between 35-55 mph. I did 10-20 miles on I70, but, we are not really supposed to. Our Governor is relaxing the restrictions here, so today, I went for about 100 miles west, into Utah some ... no one stopped me, then came back to really give them a good test. And as is my norm, , I have a few questions.

1) Do these shocks "self adjust"? I ask because it seemed when I got them installed (after I put them right side up), they seemed to be a little firmer. I liked the more firm ride. I'm not talking about it bouncing me around, just leaning less to the outside of a 75 mph curve. Today it felt like there was more "lean" to the outside. I didn't feel unstable or anything, just more leaning than I remember after first installing. It was particularly noticeable in a down hill 75 mph left turn. I am still running 22# in the rear and 36# in the front tires. Wanted to limit variables while "testing".

Should also be noted, I did get on the ground when I got home, checked the shocks, no oil anywhere, so, if they don't self adjust . Also, these shocks are way better than the air shocks, so maybe I'm just being picky.

2) I'm gonna assume (yea I know what that means), since they have a clicker valve thingie, they do adjust some to what they "see". If that is the case, I may need to add or subtract (guessing add) preload to stiffen them up to minimize the outside lean. Or maybe they are too stiff, not allowing the full travel of the shocks to adjust for centrifugal force. Not positive how to do either (step one in the instructions about three clicks on the clicker valve thingie), and don't want to just "play". I think I'm less interested in the comfort and more the performance aspect. Although, it would be nice to have some of both. Maybe 60% performance, 40% comfort.

3) Another aspect that will probably require stiffening or loosening the shocks is when I pull the trailer ... adding 17# tongue weight. Although, that might just be like me eating two cheese burgers instead of one .

4) I have only noticed the shocks bottom out once, maybe twice, couple of pretty big "bumps" that I didn't see coming.

5) Should I tweak tire pressures before messing with the adjustments Kevin and the Gang made???

6) Lastly ... How do I know how many clicks are on the click operated rebound damping thingie ... ... I'm guessing it would not be good to just start turning things and counting clicks, but, it may just be that simple. When I was doing pools, I didn't want my customers messing with the adjustments I made on the covers, because they always messed up my work ... LOL. Pretty sure Kevin feels the same about me messing with his adjustments.

Should be noted, I'm very confident that if I called DK or Kevin, I would get great customer service as I'm accustomed to. I'm just hesitant to call because I know they are probably up to their eyeballs in this "new normal" "Stuff". I have two friends that have been sent home to work-at-home and they are yanking their hair out. At home they don't have all the resources they have at work, and it always seems what you need is the thing you didn't bring home.

I'm hoping someone that has had a need or desire to adjust these things, will chime in. Yes I read the instructions and know when I do adjust them to do no more than one turn at a time. Then test ride and repeat as necessary. I'll all about test riding.

[ultrafxr]

I have just over 500 miles on this shock set up and most of that is here in my little valley. Mostly between 35-55 mph. I did 10-20 miles on I70, but, we are not really supposed to. Our Governor is relaxing the restrictions here, so today, I went for about 100 miles west, into Utah some ... no one stopped me, then came back to really give them a good test. And as is my norm, , I have a few questions.

1) Do these shocks "self adjust"? I ask because it seemed when I got them installed (after I put them right side up), they seemed to be a little firmer. I liked the more firm ride. I'm not talking about it bouncing me around, just leaning less to the outside of a 75 mph curve. Today it felt like there was more "lean" to the outside. I didn't feel unstable or anything, just more leaning than I remember after first installing. It was particularly noticeable in a down hill 75 mph left turn. I am still running 22# in the rear and 36# in the front tires. Wanted to limit variables while "testing".

Should also be noted, I did get on the ground when I got home, checked the shocks, no oil anywhere, so, if they don't self adjust . Also, these shocks are way better than the air shocks, so maybe I'm just being picky.

2) I'm gonna assume (yea I know what that means), since they have a clicker valve thingie, they do adjust some to what they "see". If that is the case, I may need to add or subtract (guessing add) preload to stiffen them up to minimize the outside lean. Or maybe they are too stiff, not allowing the full travel of the shocks to adjust for centrifugal force. Not positive how to do either (step one in the instructions about three clicks on the clicker valve thingie), and don't want to just "play". I think I'm less interested in the comfort and more the performance aspect. Although, it would be nice to have some of both. Maybe 60% performance, 40% comfort.

3) Another aspect that will probably require stiffening or loosening the shocks is when I pull the trailer ... adding 17# tongue weight. Although, that might just be like me eating two cheese burgers instead of one .

4) I have only noticed the shocks bottom out once, maybe twice, couple of pretty big "bumps" that I didn't see coming.

5) Should I tweak tire pressures before messing with the adjustments Kevin and the Gang made???

6) Lastly ... How do I know how many clicks are on the click operated rebound damping thingie ... ... I'm guessing it would not be good to just start turning things and counting clicks, but, it may just be that simple. When I was doing pools, I didn't want my customers messing with the adjustments I made on the covers, because they always messed up my work ... LOL. Pretty sure Kevin feels the same about me messing with his adjustments.

Should be noted, I'm very confident that if I called DK or Kevin, I would get great customer service as I'm accustomed to. I'm just hesitant to call because I know they are probably up to their eyeballs in this "new normal" "Stuff". I have two friends that have been sent home to work-at-home and they are yanking their hair out. At home they don't have all the resources they have at work, and it always seems what you need is the thing you didn't bring home.

I'm hoping someone that has had a need or desire to adjust these things, will chime in. Yes I read the instructions and know when I do adjust them to do no more than one turn at a time. Then test ride and repeat as necessary. I'll all about test riding.

Alan, I do think you should email Kevin and ask for his input. In the meantime as one who has over 30k on these shocks on my 2018 and now my 2020 TG and who has asked a lot of questions of Kevin about these shocks I'll give you my thoughts on your questions.

1) I don't think these shocks self adjust in any way. They are what they are and dependent on the compression and rebound settings.

2) The clicker adjusts rebound dampening and has no effect on compression dampening. Now with that being said the two work hand in hand of course. Kevin has told me (and says so in his videos) that the clicker is where to start adjustments. I think there are 5 positions. Counterclockwise is less dampening and clockwise of more. Kevin usually starts at position 3 so turn it 1 click clockwise and try that.

3) I seriously doubt you'll need to make any adjustments when having the trailer attached. Not enough weight on the hitch to make much difference imo.

4) I'm very surprised the shocks bottomed. Mine never have and I've hit some pretty big bumps. There are 'bumpers' on the shock rod. As I recall they are kind of beige in color (at least on my shocks). What you do is take a probe (something not metallic so you don't scratch the shock rod) and move the bumpers all the way up to the shock body. Then ride and see how far down on the shock rod the bumpers moved. You want them to move almost to the bottom to get the benefit of full compression but if they are all the way at the bottom then you may need to increase compression dampening. This is done on turning the ring at the top of the shock body . . . and there is a set screw holding it in position so it won't turn. Kevin says he has done it with the wheels on but I had to remove the wheels to gain access to it. And a full revolution of the ring will make a HUGE difference. I reduced the compression on mine by one turn and got a pogo effect. So go 1/4 to 1/2 turn and do a test ride.

5) I don't know what tweaking the tire pressure would involve. I keep mine at 20 - 22 psi and don't change.

6) Already answered - I think there are 5 positions.

Kevin has a video of his visit to Pro Action and questions he asked there. Very informative. I think it is on his website.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Alan, I do think you should email Kevin and ask for his input. In the meantime as one who has over 30k on these shocks on my 2018 and now my 2020 TG and who has asked a lot of questions of Kevin about these shocks I'll give you my thoughts on your questions.

1) I don't think these shocks self adjust in any way. They are what they are and dependent on the compression and rebound settings.

2) The clicker adjusts rebound dampening and has no effect on compression dampening. Now with that being said the two work hand in hand of course. Kevin has told me (and says so in his videos) that the clicker is where to start adjustments. I think there are 5 positions. Counterclockwise is less dampening and clockwise of more. Kevin usually starts at position 3 so turn it 1 click clockwise and try that.

3) I seriously doubt you'll need to make any adjustments when having the trailer attached. Not enough weight on the hitch to make much difference imo.

4) I'm very surprised the shocks bottomed. Mine never have and I've hit some pretty big bumps. There are 'bumpers' on the shock rod. As I recall they are kind of beige in color (at least on my shocks). What you do is take a probe (something not metallic so you don't scratch the shock rod) and move the bumpers all the way up to the shock body. Then ride and see how far down on the shock rod the bumpers moved. You want them to move almost to the bottom to get the benefit of full compression but if they are all the way at the bottom then you may need to increase compression dampening. This is done on turning the ring at the top of the shock body . . . and there is a set screw holding it in position so it won't turn. Kevin says he has done it with the wheels on but I had to remove the wheels to gain access to it. And a full revolution of the ring will make a HUGE difference. I reduced the compression on mine by one turn and got a pogo effect. So go 1/4 to 1/2 turn and do a test ride.

5) I don't know what tweaking the tire pressure would involve. I keep mine at 20 - 22 psi and don't change.

6) Already answered - I think there are 5 positions.

Kevin has a video of his visit to Pro Action and questions he asked there. Very informative. I think it is on his website.

I went to the Pro Action website. There is a good video about how to adjust the shocks. Using the bumper as the gauge. Under "normal road conditions, they shoot for that bumper to be about 1/4" from the bottom (or a 1/4" of shinny metal on the shock showing below the bumper) after working. If that is the case, you then go to the clicker thing. They state to only adjust the right shock clicker thing. I'm wondering if that is for the 2 wheelers or apples to trikes too.

Tomorrow I'll go out and check the dampers. Maybe push then up with a nylon rod and go for a ride and then check the bumpers. What I didn't understand, is the spring pre load needs to be adjusted the same for each shock. However, the rebound adjustment is only done on the right shock .

I guess I will do the bumper test tomorrow, then call DK. I just really wanted to not bother them, anymore then I already have .

[ultrafxr]

I don't think there is a prohibition about adjusting the rebound dampening 'clicker' just on the right shock. They're just saying that both shocks do not have to be equal in that adjustment if it gets you the ride and handling you want. You are free to adjust either or both to get the rebound dampening that works for you. But I don't think you'd want the shocks more than 1 click difference in any case.

[DK Custom Products]

Good questions and answers, thanks Jerry.

Fuzzy, will try and go thru one by one and address.

And, yes, we're busy, super busy (covid logistics ), but never too busy for calls or emails. Forums sometimes get delayed more than most. I see you called this afternoon, and will be calling back, but wanted to answer here in writing, for you, and for other reading, that may have the same questions.

1. The shocks do adjust to the conditions-

• 3 stage incrementally pressure sensitive self adjusting compression valving
  
• 2 stage pressure sensitive rebound system
  

There is a video on the subject of shim stacks and how they adjust the speed of compression and rebound based on each different bump.

You gotta be able to "listen fast" to the New Yorker! Starting around the 40 second mark is where the valving, that adjusts on the fly, is discussed.



So, to answer what I think you are asking...they do adjust, but they should self adjust the same everytime, given the same situation. I think you are asking if they adjust so that they ride differently (in exactly the same situation). That answer is no. HOWEVER...

I believe what you probably experienced is the shock "breaking in". When they are new, they are a tiny bit stiffer for the first few hundred miles. This is due to all the seals and rings getting broken in. So when you first rode it it seemed a bit stiffer than it does now...now that they are broken in, it should ride exactly the same everytime, given exactly the same conditions.

ack...I have to go deal with a bit of an emergency. I will go ahead and post this, and then pick it up later tonight and answer the rest of the questions.

Kevin

[FuzzyWuzHe]

I don't think there is a prohibition about adjusting the rebound dampening 'clicker' just on the right shock. They're just saying that both shocks do not have to be equal in that adjustment if it gets you the ride and handling you want. You are free to adjust either or both to get the rebound dampening that works for you. But I don't think you'd want the shocks more than 1 click difference in any case.

So this morning I took the wheels off the trike, moved the bumper thing to the top of both shocks, put the wheels back on, and headed for a ride with Harley. I wanted to get the effect of a co rider ... LOL. After the ride I got down and looked at the bumpers. They were about an 1.25" from the bottom. The Pro-Action video said they were shooting for between 0.25" to 0.50". Figured I would need to adjust the preload.

So I called DK but waited until lunch, forgot they are working from home for the most part. Anyway, I got Leila, I think that's her name, I'm horrible with names. Anyway, she explained that the video at pro action is for the 11", 12" and 13" shocks and no comfort lift.

She also said she wasn't involved in the setup of the shocks, but, she felt my having 1.25" on travel left was probably okay since I didn't have any gear loaded or the trailer. She also explained that the video I watched was on a two wheeler and when these shocks are set up on a two wheeler, they adjust the two shocks a slight bit differently and then adjust just the right clicker thing to dial it in.

She told me to do the same adjustment to both sides and do one click then test. She recommended one click higher, or 4 clicks total. If that felt like an improvement, try one more click, repeat as necessary until it felt good to me.

So, I adjusted to 4 clicks on both sides and went for a ride. The ride has been greatly improved since installing the shocks, but, it was even better today. I used a long screw driver to adjust the clicks through the slots in the wheels. I took the screw driver with me and had planned to maybe adjust them to 5 clicks, but, alas, clouds rolled in and it really looked like I was gonna get wet, so I just headed home and retorted the wheels.

I might try 5 clicks tomorrow, if it's not as good going back to 4 is easy. We'll see.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Good questions and answers, thanks Jerry.

Fuzzy, will try and go thru one by one and address.

And, yes, we're busy, super busy (covid logistics ), but never too busy for calls or emails. Forums sometimes get delayed more than most. I see you called this afternoon, and will be calling back, but wanted to answer here in writing, for you, and for other reading, that may have the same questions.

1. The shocks do adjust to the conditions-

• 3 stage incrementally pressure sensitive self adjusting compression valving
  
• 2 stage pressure sensitive rebound system
  

There is a video on the subject of shim stacks and how they adjust the speed of compression and rebound based on each different bump.

You gotta be able to "listen fast" to the New Yorker! Starting around the 40 second mark is where the valving, that adjusts on the fly, is discussed.



So, to answer what I think you are asking...they do adjust, but they should self adjust the same everytime, given the same situation. I think you are asking if they adjust so that they ride differently (in exactly the same situation). That answer is no. HOWEVER...

I believe what you probably experienced is the shock "breaking in". When they are new, they are a tiny bit stiffer for the first few hundred miles. This is due to all the seals and rings getting broken in. So when you first rode it it seemed a bit stiffer than it does now...now that they are broken in, it should ride exactly the same everytime, given exactly the same conditions.

ack...I have to go deal with a bit of an emergency. I will go ahead and post this, and then pick it up later tonight and answer the rest of the questions.

Kevin

I did call, but, for some reason I had your # as the shop and the shop as yours ... I finally figured it out ... and got Leila ... I think

Interesting video, not sure I truly understood it all, but, I understood enough to know that I could mess this up if I play too much ... LOL ... I really was impressed with the change in one click more (4 total), and it's easy to add a click, so might try that tomorrow, can go back if it seems worse.

[DK Custom Products]

Finally back at the puter.

On to question #2-

The clicker on the bottom of each shock is a bleed valve. It control the flow of shock fluid on both the compression and rebound strokes of the shocks. It definitely affects rebound damping more than compression, but it does have an effect on compression damping also, as you will see in the video below.

Whereas the valving, referred to in #1 above is self adjusting due to the multiple shims in the stack, the bleed valve is adjusted by the clicker.

Together, the valving and the clicker provide the damping control (how fast or slow the fluid moves) that give the different feel when the shock compresses when hitting a bump and rebounds after the bump.

There is a video below that explains/shows how the clicker works to control the flow.

The most important things to know about the clickers-

A. Always zero them out before starting to adjust. Do this by turning them counter-clockwise until they stop.

B. Even though they will turn clockwise about 50 clicks...ONLY the first 5 clicks going clockwise provide 100% of the available adjustment.

C. 98% of the time, on Trikes, with the 14" Trike Series Shocks, the best ride is produced by having both clickers on the third click.

D. There is no harm in adjusting them...no damage can be done, and it is super easy to just zero them out (counter-clockwise) and start over again at 3 and 3.

Sometimes folks find that having one, or both, of the shocks on 2 or 4 will feel better to them than 3 and 3. Don't be shy about experimenting around til you get what feels best for You.



3 & 4. Once you get the springs adjusted to the best spot, you should be able to add/subtract quite a bit of weight (up to 100 lbs) without having to re-adjust the pre-load on the springs. The fine tuning can be done with the clickers.

How to know if the pre-load on the springs is set right for you? Hopefully we sent them set correctly. But, it is always possible that we didn't.

Again, the Trikes and the 14" Trike Series Shocks are different than the shocks talked about on the video on the PA website. The best way to know is to set both the clickers on 3, then push up the bumpers (like Jerry mentioned) and then go for a ride. Hit some pretty good bumps...ie. the hardest bumps you hit on a regular basis. Then check the bumpers. They should be pushed all the way down, BUT, you should not have felt a jarring bottoming out.

The goal is to get the full use of the available stroke (bumpers pushed all the way down) without it hitting the bumper so hard that it fully compresses and you feel any jarring.

(the bumpers will compress to about 1/3 their relaxed thickness before you feel any hard jarring)

If you hit some pretty good bumps at speed and the bumpers are not all the way down, then the springs should be adjusted to have less pre-load.

If you hit some pretty good bumps at speed and the bumpers bottom out and there is a hard jarring feeling, then they need to be adjusted for more pre-load.

The goal of having all the stroke used during normal riding, including the normal hard bumps that are hit means, that every now and then you might hit a massive hole and bottom out with a hard jar. I would prefer to have the best possible ride (using the entire stroke) for 99.9% of the time, and get a jarring in the once every 5-10 thousand miles.

If you never want to bottom out with a hard jarring, then you can go find the worst pothole and adjust your pre-load so it does not bottom out on that with a hard jarring. But, for all your other riding, it is going to be a bit stiffer.

5. Whatever you run your tires at (20-22 psi is best) then that is what you should have them at when doing your fine tuning to get the feel you want.

6. Refer to #2 above. You can't mess anything up, as long as you always go back to zero (counter-clockwise) and the start out at 3 and 3 (or whatever # of clicks you have found give the best rid for you).

The one caution is to make sure you are going counter-clockwise to zero out. It is really common for folks to get confused and think they have zero'd out, but they went all the way to the right, turning the clicker clockwise til it stopped. This will make it ride like a buck-board.

Yeah, sorry so busy. The "new" or interim normal is pretty taxing sometimes. Glad you got ahold of Lela. While she said to do clicks on both shocks...that really is not necessary. If you turned them both to 4 and it was better. Turn one back to three and see if that is even better. If not, then turn it back to 4, and go one more, with one of them on 4 and one of them on 5.

You got your Power Vision dialed in by experimenting with it, better than any I have ever seen. This is the same deal, just play with it in small increments until it feels best to you.

btw, an interesting thing that perplexed me when I first started learning about suspension. It is a bit counter-intuitive.

When you turn the clickers clockwise, (like going from 3 clicks to 4 clicks) this makes the ride a bit firmer. This makes sense. It is restricting the flow of the shock fluid thru the valves & shim stacks.

When turning the clicker counter-clockwise (like going from 3 clicks to 2, or even 1 clicks) this is supposed to make the ride softer...and sometimes it does. BUT, sometimes it will make the ride feel rougher. How is that?

It can let so much fluid flow so easily, that no significant damping is occurring. This results in riding just on the springs, like a pogo stick.

So, what you are searching for is that sweet spot where you have the damping adjusted to give You the amount of firmness You find most comfortable.

Kevin

[Fearless]

Finally back at the puter.

On to question #2-

The clicker on the bottom of each shock is a bleed valve. It control the flow of shock fluid on both the compression and rebound strokes of the shocks. It definitely affects rebound damping more than compression, but it does have an effect on compression damping also, as you will see in the video below.

Whereas the valving, referred to in #1 above is self adjusting due to the multiple shims in the stack, the bleed valve is adjusted by the clicker.

Together, the valving and the clicker provide the damping control (how fast or slow the fluid moves) that give the different feel when the shock compresses when hitting a bump and rebounds after the bump.

There is a video below that explains/shows how the clicker works to control the flow.

The most important things to know about the clickers-

A. Always zero them out before starting to adjust. Do this by turning them counter-clockwise until they stop.

B. Even though they will turn clockwise about 50 clicks...ONLY the first 5 clicks going clockwise provide 100% of the available adjustment.

C. 98% of the time, on Trikes, with the 14" Trike Series Shocks, the best ride is produced by having both clickers on the third click.

D. There is no harm in adjusting them...no damage can be done, and it is super easy to just zero them out (counter-clockwise) and start over again at 3 and 3.

Sometimes folks find that having one, or both, of the shocks on 2 or 4 will feel better to them than 3 and 3. Don't be shy about experimenting around til you get what feels best for You.



3 & 4. Once you get the springs adjusted to the best spot, you should be able to add/subtract quite a bit of weight (up to 100 lbs) without having to re-adjust the pre-load on the springs. The fine tuning can be done with the clickers.

How to know if the pre-load on the springs is set right for you? Hopefully we sent them set correctly. But, it is always possible that we didn't.

Again, the Trikes and the 14" Trike Series Shocks are different than the shocks talked about on the video on the PA website. The best way to know is to set both the clickers on 3, then push up the bumpers (like Jerry mentioned) and then go for a ride. Hit some pretty good bumps...ie. the hardest bumps you hit on a regular basis. Then check the bumpers. They should be pushed all the way down, BUT, you should not have felt a jarring bottoming out.

The goal is to get the full use of the available stroke (bumpers pushed all the way down) without it hitting the bumper so hard that it fully compresses and you feel any jarring.

(the bumpers will compress to about 1/3 their relaxed thickness before you feel any hard jarring)

If you hit some pretty good bumps at speed and the bumpers are not all the way down, then the springs should be adjusted to have less pre-load.

If you hit some pretty good bumps at speed and the bumpers bottom out and there is a hard jarring feeling, then they need to be adjusted for more pre-load.

The goal of having all the stroke used during normal riding, including the normal hard bumps that are hit means, that every now and then you might hit a massive hole and bottom out with a hard jar. I would prefer to have the best possible ride (using the entire stroke) for 99.9% of the time, and get a jarring in the once every 5-10 thousand miles.

If you never want to bottom out with a hard jarring, then you can go find the worst pothole and adjust your pre-load so it does not bottom out on that with a hard jarring. But, for all your other riding, it is going to be a bit stiffer.

5. Whatever you run your tires at (20-22 psi is best) then that is what you should have them at when doing your fine tuning to get the feel you want.

6. Refer to #2 above. You can't mess anything up, as long as you always go back to zero (counter-clockwise) and the start out at 3 and 3 (or whatever # of clicks you have found give the best rid for you).

The one caution is to make sure you are going counter-clockwise to zero out. It is really common for folks to get confused and think they have zero'd out, but they went all the way to the right, turning the clicker clockwise til it stopped. This will make it ride like a buck-board.

Yeah, sorry so busy. The "new" or interim normal is pretty taxing sometimes. Glad you got ahold of Lela. While she said to do clicks on both shocks...that really is not necessary. If you turned them both to 4 and it was better. Turn one back to three and see if that is even better. If not, then turn it back to 4, and go one more, with one of them on 4 and one of them on 5.

You got your Power Vision dialed in by experimenting with it, better than any I have ever seen. This is the same deal, just play with it in small increments until it feels best to you.

btw, an interesting thing that perplexed me when I first started learning about suspension. It is a bit counter-intuitive.

When you turn the clickers clockwise, (like going from 3 clicks to 4 clicks) this makes the ride a bit firmer. This makes sense. It is restricting the flow of the shock fluid thru the valves & shim stacks.

When turning the clicker counter-clockwise (like going from 3 clicks to 2, or even 1 clicks) this is supposed to make the ride softer...and sometimes it does. BUT, sometimes it will make the ride feel rougher. How is that?

It can let so much fluid flow so easily, that no significant damping is occurring. This results in riding just on the springs, like a pogo stick.

So, what you are searching for is that sweet spot where you have the damping adjusted to give You the amount of firmness You find most comfortable.

Kevin

Thank you a good read I understand those fantastic shocks better now. Ride safe Fred

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Finally back at the puter.

On to question #2-

The clicker on the bottom of each shock is a bleed valve. It control the flow of shock fluid on both the compression and rebound strokes of the shocks. It definitely affects rebound damping more than compression, but it does have an effect on compression damping also, as you will see in the video below.

Whereas the valving, referred to in #1 above is self adjusting due to the multiple shims in the stack, the bleed valve is adjusted by the clicker.

Together, the valving and the clicker provide the damping control (how fast or slow the fluid moves) that give the different feel when the shock compresses when hitting a bump and rebounds after the bump.

There is a video below that explains/shows how the clicker works to control the flow.

The most important things to know about the clickers-

A. Always zero them out before starting to adjust. Do this by turning them counter-clockwise until they stop.

B. Even though they will turn clockwise about 50 clicks...ONLY the first 5 clicks going clockwise provide 100% of the available adjustment.

C. 98% of the time, on Trikes, with the 14" Trike Series Shocks, the best ride is produced by having both clickers on the third click.

D. There is no harm in adjusting them...no damage can be done, and it is super easy to just zero them out (counter-clockwise) and start over again at 3 and 3.

Sometimes folks find that having one, or both, of the shocks on 2 or 4 will feel better to them than 3 and 3. Don't be shy about experimenting around til you get what feels best for You.



3 & 4. Once you get the springs adjusted to the best spot, you should be able to add/subtract quite a bit of weight (up to 100 lbs) without having to re-adjust the pre-load on the springs. The fine tuning can be done with the clickers.

How to know if the pre-load on the springs is set right for you? Hopefully we sent them set correctly. But, it is always possible that we didn't.

Again, the Trikes and the 14" Trike Series Shocks are different than the shocks talked about on the video on the PA website. The best way to know is to set both the clickers on 3, then push up the bumpers (like Jerry mentioned) and then go for a ride. Hit some pretty good bumps...ie. the hardest bumps you hit on a regular basis. Then check the bumpers. They should be pushed all the way down, BUT, you should not have felt a jarring bottoming out.

The goal is to get the full use of the available stroke (bumpers pushed all the way down) without it hitting the bumper so hard that it fully compresses and you feel any jarring.

(the bumpers will compress to about 1/3 their relaxed thickness before you feel any hard jarring)

If you hit some pretty good bumps at speed and the bumpers are not all the way down, then the springs should be adjusted to have less pre-load.

If you hit some pretty good bumps at speed and the bumpers bottom out and there is a hard jarring feeling, then they need to be adjusted for more pre-load.

The goal of having all the stroke used during normal riding, including the normal hard bumps that are hit means, that every now and then you might hit a massive hole and bottom out with a hard jar. I would prefer to have the best possible ride (using the entire stroke) for 99.9% of the time, and get a jarring in the once every 5-10 thousand miles.

If you never want to bottom out with a hard jarring, then you can go find the worst pothole and adjust your pre-load so it does not bottom out on that with a hard jarring. But, for all your other riding, it is going to be a bit stiffer.

5. Whatever you run your tires at (20-22 psi is best) then that is what you should have them at when doing your fine tuning to get the feel you want.

6. Refer to #2 above. You can't mess anything up, as long as you always go back to zero (counter-clockwise) and the start out at 3 and 3 (or whatever # of clicks you have found give the best ride for you).

The one caution is to make sure you are going counter-clockwise to zero out. It is really common for folks to get confused and think they have zero'd out, but they went all the way to the right, turning the clicker clockwise til it stopped. This will make it ride like a buck-board.

Yeah, sorry so busy. The "new" or interim normal is pretty taxing sometimes. Glad you got ahold of Lela. While she said to do clicks on both shocks...that really is not necessary. If you turned them both to 4 and it was better. Turn one back to three and see if that is even better. If not, then turn it back to 4, and go one more, with one of them on 4 and one of them on 5.

You got your Power Vision dialed in by experimenting with it, better than any I have ever seen. This is the same deal, just play with it in small increments until it feels best to you.

btw, an interesting thing that perplexed me when I first started learning about suspension. It is a bit counter-intuitive.

When you turn the clickers clockwise, (like going from 3 clicks to 4 clicks) this makes the ride a bit firmer. This makes sense. It is restricting the flow of the shock fluid thru the valves & shim stacks.

When turning the clicker counter-clockwise (like going from 3 clicks to 2, or even 1 clicks) this is supposed to make the ride softer...and sometimes it does. BUT, sometimes it will make the ride feel rougher. How is that?

It can let so much fluid flow so easily, that no significant damping is occurring. This results in riding just on the springs, like a pogo stick.

So, what you are searching for is that sweet spot where you have the damping adjusted to give You the amount of firmness You find most comfortable.

Kevin

Okay ... this is all starting to make sense. WAIT ... that is not possible.

I am liking these shocks for a whole bunch of reasons. The ride, the handling and the brain exercises they provide .

With the preload You at DK provided, in my test, I ended up with about 1.25" of shaft under the bumper. If the goal is to have next to 0" under the bumper, it would seem that I need to remove some preload. However, when I did the ride around after setting the bumpers all the way up, I avoided the larger bumps as per the video on PA.

After setting the clicker thing to 4 clicks, I did NOT avoid the bigger bumps, so, this morning I will look at the bumpers and see where they are. If they are near the bottom, Then I doubt I need to mess with the preload, which would make my heart sing. Really getting tired of jacking the trike up ... it's way harder to do with the Kuryakyn trailer hitch there. If I am gonna be taking the wheels off this often I need to make a "saddle" out of 4"x4" to put over the hitch to the crossmembers. I do suspect that the bumpers will be very near the bottom as in the first ride I was very careful to avoid the bigger ones. The subsequent ride I was not ... LOL.

Okay ... armed with my new "Knowledge" of these shocks (thanks for the videos, really cleared up the mud I've been swimming through), I think going to 4 clicks on both shocks may be a tad too much too soon. There was a very significant improvement at those settings, which really surprised me at the time, but, after watching the video, it makes sense why one click has that affect.

So what's my plan? I think I may go back to 3 clicks on the left shock and 4 clicks on the right shock. My reasoning for this is that in a high speed, down hill left turn (we have areas on I70 that you will be zipping along at 75 mph and start down hill in a 1500 - 2000 foot elevation drop and half way down the hill you make an aggressive left turn) that makes it feel like the trike is trying to throw you off the seat to the right (centrifugal force). I have to be honest and say that I have never enjoyed this scenario around here, even on a two wheeler when I was leaning into the curve. I've always attributed that to being 6' and carrying most of my weight between what should be my waist and my shoulders, I'm top heavy and that weight tends to get "pushed" where the forces want it. Since going to a trike, the sensation in this scenario has always been a little unsettling to me.

So, back to my plan, my hope is that with 4 clicks on the outside wheel in that scenario and 3 clicks on the inside wheel, it will somewhat mitigate the sensation I get. I understand (or at least I do) that the "clicks" work together to fine tune, so, if I have 3 clicks on one and 4 clicks on the other, it's kind of like 3.5 clicks on both to the overall effect of the suspension. I also think I understand that by having the right shock react slower (more clicks than the right) the trike will still react "evenly", but, the right will react a tad slower than the left, maybe mitigating the "feeling" I don't like. To be clear, the "feeling" doesn't slow me down or make me feel unsafe, but, it does get my attention.

As for dialing in the Power Vision ... yea ... I've done some "tweaking" there ... LOL ... but ... it's taken me like 5 years of playing to get there and when I think I'm done, I find a new setting that I think I should be "fixing". To illustrate this, just yesterday when I filled the tank, I got 34.5 mpg based on miles driven / gallons put in the tank and the PV read 34.24 mpg. I brought the PV into the house and raised the mpg number from 1830 to 1835 ... LOL ... the beast wants it to be perfect. I can not imagine I will ever get that crazy with the Pro Action shocks .. although it's possible ... .

As to the neigh sayers who will tell me to just ride the dang thing, , what do you think I've been doing while tweaking ... LOL ... almost 11k miles last year, and 8k of them were just here in my little world (lovingly called Happy Valley ... the area between the Utah boarder and the Grand Mesa, about 35 miles by 30 miles) ... if I'm gonna ride ... might as well tweak things while I'm in the wind . My little world has every type of riding anyone will ever get into ... mountains, valleys, highway, hairpins, just about anything you could imagine, which of course made it great testing ground for tweaking the PV, with the possible exception that I don't have any sea level riding area. I start at 5k feet and go up from there ... LOL ... I did do some auto tuning at sea level in Mesquite ... LOL ... and did a sea level tune ... it didn't seem to make a lot of difference in performance, but, I gave it a shot and will still load it when I get near there.

[ShapeShifter]

Thanks Guys!!.....this will be a very useful thread in the future.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Okay, so as previously discussed first thing I did was put the shocks back to 3 clicks and since the bumpers where about an inch or so from the bottom I was able to push them all the way up.

Went on a ride and didn't avoid anything. Did not aim for bumps, just my normal riding area which has lots of bumps. Between freezing, thawing, rain deluge and lack of rain for long periods, our roads take a beating. Add to that all the home construction and the roads are constantly being dug up, new utilities added and patched. It's nice to have utilities in the road, except when something goes wrong ... LOL.

After about 30 miles, I went home and checked the bumpers. As suspected they were near the bottom, but, I couldn't see whether they had bottomed. I pushed them down with the nylon tool and they only went down about a 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch. So I think my pre load is pretty well set ... assuming I'm understanding all this.

Since I already knew how 4 clicks on each side felt, I made the right one 5 clicks, being careful to 0 them by going to the clockwise then back 5 clicks. So I had 4 on the left and 5 on the right. I did the test ride, another 30 or so miles. Felt firm to me ... very stable, but kind of firm.

I had brought my long screw driver with me, so, I stopped in a Walgren's parking lot, and adjusted them back to 4 clicks on both sides to be sure I was felling what I thought I was feeling.

When I got home, I adjusted them to 3 clicks left and 4 clicks right. I may try 3 clicks left and 5 clicks right, but, maybe not. After I eat my bagel, I'll do the test ride again ... LOL.

[DK Custom Products]

Okay, so as previously discussed first thing I did was put the shocks back to 3 clicks and since the bumpers where about an inch or so from the bottom I was able to push them all the way up.

Went on a ride and didn't avoid anything. Did not aim for bumps, just my normal riding area which has lots of bumps. Between freezing, thawing, rain deluge and lack of rain for long periods, our roads take a beating. Add to that all the home construction and the roads are constantly being dug up, new utilities added and patched. It's nice to have utilities in the road, except when something goes wrong ... LOL.

After about 30 miles, I went home and checked the bumpers. As suspected they were near the bottom, but, I couldn't see whether they had bottomed. I pushed them down with the nylon tool and they only went down about a 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch. So I think my pre load is pretty well set ... assuming I'm understanding all this.

Since I already knew how 4 clicks on each side felt, I made the right one 5 clicks, being careful to 0 them by going to the clockwise then back 5 clicks. So I had 4 on the left and 5 on the right. I did the test ride, another 30 or so miles. Felt firm to me ... very stable, but kind of firm.

I had brought my long screw driver with me, so, I stopped in a Walgren's parking lot, and adjusted them back to 4 clicks on both sides to be sure I was felling what I thought I was feeling.

When I got home, I adjusted them to 3 clicks left and 4 clicks right. I may try 3 clicks left and 5 clicks right, but, maybe not. After I eat my bagel, I'll do the test ride again ... LOL.

Fuzzy, sounds like you're getting it dialed in. Pre-load seems good, so now it is just finding the right combination for the clickers to give you the ride that is best for you.

Yeah, it is a lot simpler than dialing in the PV.

Most ride with the adjustment we set and are extremely pleased with the improved ride quality, but there is nothing wrong with fine tuning it to get the absolute best...AND, you may find that different riding conditions (roads, load, speed, etc.) may benefit from a one click change, which, as you've seen, is super easy.

Kevin

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Fuzzy, sounds like you're getting it dialed in. Pre-load seems good, so now it is just finding the right combination for the clickers to give you the ride that is best for you.

Yeah, it is a lot simpler than dialing in the PV.

Most ride with the adjustment we set and are extremely pleased with the improved ride quality, but there is nothing wrong with fine tuning it to get the absolute best...AND, you may find that different riding conditions (roads, load, speed, etc.) may benefit from a one click change, which, as you've seen, is super easy.

Kevin

I have done some "test riding" with the long screw driver in the tour pak. Here's the combinations I tried:

1) Right 5, left 5

2) Right 5, Left 4 ... I think this may be a finalist. Might be the sweet spot.

3) Right 4, Left 4 ... I think this may be a finalist.

4) Right 5, Left 3 ... I think this may be a finalist.

5) Right 4, Left 3

6) Right 4, Left 2

7) Right 3, Left 3

8) Right 3, Left 2

Should be noted, at all these settings the ride was way superior to the stock air shocks. My Co Rider (Harley) seems to like the ride firmer too.

I have three finalists. I will put it on one setting, and do a couple hundred miles, then try the other. I'm gonna start with the 5 right, 4 left setting. I'm thinking this may be the sweet spot. So may save myself some time.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Did four rides this morning ...

The first was 5 clicks right, 3 clicks left. pretty good on the lean feeling, but on one of the roads I ride a lot that has frost heaves, I was being bumped around a lot right to left. I'm guessing with the two different rebound rates, I was getting some slapping right and left. On other roads with just some normal bumps, the ride was very good.

Tried 5 and 4 clicks, same slapping, just not as bad.

The next one was about 50 miles and had 5 clicks on both shocks ... no slapping ... good control of the lean, or at least the feel of lean, but, a fairly firm ride, not jarring on the bumps, but, not plush, just firm.

The next one was almost 150 miles, with 4 clicks on both shocks. I think this is the sweet spot for me. It is still a little firm, but very comfortable. The lean sensation was about the same as with the 5 and 5 setting.

I may try one more set of tests with a little more pre load and a little less rebound restriction, maybe just a half turn each shock . Maybe not, getting tired of torque wheels ... LOL.

Again, I am not saying in anyway that I don't like the ride, because it's awesome ... maybe just trying to get $1200 worth of ride improvement from a $1000 set of shocks ... .. out of the box the red is worth $1000 after DK set them up. I have written down every setting I tried with results. If I mess with preload, big if, I will document where it is now ... LOL ... so I can go back when I mess it up.

[ultrafxr]

Fuzzy my helmet is off to you. You are without a doubt the most indefatigable determined person I know - beat me by a country mile and I thought I was pretty anal, lol. I admire your tenacity but I'm afraid in my dotage I just not up to all that time and effort to dial my shocks in that way. Now whenever you're down this way maybe I can enlist your services.

And oh yeah while that long screwdriver works great for you not so much for me since I installed the RJS wheel discs. Have to get down on the ground and underneath to reach those clickers.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

And oh yeah while that long screwdriver works great for you not so much for me since I installed the RJS wheel discs. Have to get down on the ground and underneath to reach those clickers.

Hmmmm ... I might just not order those now .. at least until I'm done playing ... LOL.

I'm kind of hoping that Kevin will come along and tell me NOT to play with the pre load ... LOL. But, If I do play with it, I will take the opportunity to re torque the shocks while the wheels are off ... just to be sure ... ... I've already re torqued the lifts ...

[Trampas]

Hmmmm ... I might just not order those now .. at least until I'm done playing ... LOL.

I'm kind of hoping that Kevin will come along and tell me NOT to play with the pre load ... LOL. But, If I do play with it, I will take the opportunity to re torque the shocks while the wheels are off ... just to be sure ... ... I've already re torqued the lifts ...

I'm glad to see you getting close to what you want I think anyway, basically I think you like to play around LOL. I thought once something is torqued down you are not supposed to torque it again since the first time you used locktite I presume, re-torgueing doesn't that break the loctikte or what, I'm not a full fledge mechanic but do play around once in awhile, LOL

All for now Trampas

[FuzzyWuzHe]

I'm glad to see you getting close to what you want I think anyway, basically I think you like to play around LOL. I thought once something is torqued down you are not supposed to torque it again since the first time you used locktite I presume, re-torgueing doesn't that break the loctikte or what, I'm not a full fledge mechanic but do play around once in awhile, LOL

All for now Trampas

I do like to play, I don't ever feel like good enough is enough ... good point about the locktite .. with the red locktite, I doubt the will go anywhere ...

[DK Custom Products]

Hmmmm ... I might just not order those now .. at least until I'm done playing ... LOL.

I'm kind of hoping that Kevin will come along and tell me NOT to play with the pre load ... LOL. But, If I do play with it, I will take the opportunity to re torque the shocks while the wheels are off ... just to be sure ... ... I've already re torqued the lifts ...

Hey man!

You are doing the same thing we do with all new parts. Exploring all the rabbit holes.

When adjusting the pre-load, it is not as easy to get back to the starting point as it is with the clickers. I think you are really close to spot on, BUT, that does not mean it could not be a bit better.

Three things if you start adjusting the pre-load:

1. It is easier to do with the tires removed. It can be done without, but is more difficult.

2. Since it is really easy to get lost from where you are now, make sure to keep track of how much you move the top collar, and in which direction, so you can get back to your starting point.

3. As little a 1/4 turn of the top collar (above the spring) will make a pretty significant difference. If you want a firmer ride, turn the collar clockwise, softer, twist it counter-clockwise.

You are already different, in that the vast majority (including myself) find that 3 & 3 on the clickers provides the preferred ride, but from what you've written, you like firmer, and combined with your bumper not being all the way down after hitting some good bumps, my guess would be that if you had a tad less pre-load (maybe 1/4 to 1/2 turn counter-clockwise) that would make the springs Softer, and you could run your clickers firmer (4 or 5) and it may be your ideal.

BUT, it is all a matter of experimenting, at which you are good. Looking forward to seeing where you end up at the end of your rabbit holes.

Kevin