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Thread: Pinion Seal Headache

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    I wasn't sure how to go about making a new post. So, instead l'm just adding to my past post. The problem l'm having is that the leak @ the pinion seal, l had replaced has returned. I'm sure the correct seal was installed, because l had the auto parts cross reference the # off the one that was removed. The trike had less than 10k miles on it when it was replaced. The leak stopped for a short time, but then returned after a few hundred miles. I guess my ? to my fellow triker friends is. Did the person install the seal incorrectly or somehow damage it, or is there something else causing the leak? There's no vibration or strange sounds that l'm aware of. It's not leaking badly or dripping constantly, & if l wipe the oil off of it. It doesn't leak while the trike is setting, only after l drive it again, is when the oil reappears just behind the pinion seal area. Any help with this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
    There are several reasons you could have a leak. Improper install, fluid too high, vent for rear end plugged, fluid leaking thru splines past the seal.
    Nuff Said," Were Burnin Daylight, Lets Ride"(Sober 33years)
    Current ride : 17 FREEWHEELER M8, Power Vision tuner, DK Customs Outlaw air cleaner, modified by me head breather vent with drain, Gutted stock mufflers, (RJS Originals) rear wheel discs , (RJS Originals) custom windshield lower panel, Mighty Mites Love Jugs fans by Papa Zook

  2. #12
    30+ Posts Trace's Avatar
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    Default Pinion Seal Headache AGAIN :(

    Thanks Jack, l wasn't aware there was a vent, but l'll check it out. I'm sure the fluid level is correct Because l've already checked that. I told the person that installed the seal, about putting silicone on the splines upon assembly & he said they usually do that. So l was under the impression that he was familiar w/that part of it. When l called him back after it started leaking again. He said the only thing left to do would be to change the pinion?? Sounds a bit extreme to me, when the trike has less than 10k miles on it.

  3. #13
    30+ Posts Trace's Avatar
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    Default Pinion Seal Headache AGAIN :(

    Jack, I located the vent on the differential, and it's the kind that can't be removed. I did check it though and the little cap on it spins freely and it's very clean under there. From what I've read you can pop the cap off of the vent and check it or you can leave the cap off and run a little hose off of the tube that's in the differential. I did pry on it a little bit before I read about removing it and it didn't seem like it wanted to come off very easily. My question for you is since it's very clean under there and it has such low mileage on it. Do you think I should go ahead and pry it off to check to make sure it's not clogged or do you think it's okay to just figure it's not that and probably something else? I'm getting ready to go for a pretty long ride on Sunday and I don't want to risk messing something up by taking it apart and then not being able to extend it with a hose. Please let me know what you think about this thanks again

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Jack, I located the vent on the differential, and it's the kind that can't be removed. I did check it though and the little cap on it spins freely and it's very clean under there. From what I've read you can pop the cap off of the vent and check it or you can leave the cap off and run a little hose off of the tube that's in the differential. I did pry on it a little bit before I read about removing it and it didn't seem like it wanted to come off very easily. My question for you is since it's very clean under there and it has such low mileage on it. Do you think I should go ahead and pry it off to check to make sure it's not clogged or do you think it's okay to just figure it's not that and probably something else? I'm getting ready to go for a pretty long ride on Sunday and I don't want to risk messing something up by taking it apart and then not being able to extend it with a hose. Please let me know what you think about this thanks again
    The chances are good the vent is OK, myself I like to be sure when doing a job like this

    The chances are higher the seal may have been nicked during installation and or the garter spring on the seal is dislodged
    Nuff Said," Were Burnin Daylight, Lets Ride"(Sober 33years)
    Current ride : 17 FREEWHEELER M8, Power Vision tuner, DK Customs Outlaw air cleaner, modified by me head breather vent with drain, Gutted stock mufflers, (RJS Originals) rear wheel discs , (RJS Originals) custom windshield lower panel, Mighty Mites Love Jugs fans by Papa Zook

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Klarich View Post
    The chances are good the vent is OK, myself I like to be sure when doing a job like this

    The chances are higher the seal may have been nicked during installation and or the garter spring on the seal is dislodged
    I wonder if the pinion flange itself has a groove on it .....

    How does the flange fit in the seal ?

    Clean everything and see exactly where the oil is coming from...
    Jim Murphy
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  6. #16
    30+ Posts Trace's Avatar
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    Default Pinion Seal Headache AGAIN :(

    Hello Jim, thanks for your response. I'm not sure how the flange fits, because l had someone else do it for me. I had it narrowed down to 3 different seals. The person that installed it for me said that the seal for the pre 05' Tacoma was an exact fit. It didn't leak for a few hundred miles, but then it started again. It inly leaks when it's in motion though, it doesn't leave any drips on cardboard etc if you leave it set. To be absolutely sure l had the correct seal, l had the number off the old one. Cross referenced at the auto parts. And it was in fact the same number as the one l had installed. The other thing that has me puzzled is that Toyota used the same seal on their mini trucks up until 1995. The strange thing is that from what l can find, all their trucks had 5 lug wheels.

    A Champion trike has 4 lug wheels. I cant find any way to tell what vehicle they made that used that differential & had a 4 lug wheel pattern. Not that that really matters all that much. But from what l can find, Toyota produced 3 different differentials for their trucks, & the most common is called the "4 cylinder" differential. This is most likely the one that champion used in their kits. I can't explain why they have the 4 lug pattern though. I guess l'll just have to find someone in my area that isn't afraid to work on a trike. Sorry for such a long reply

  7. #17
    30+ Posts Trace's Avatar
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    Default Pinion Seal Headache AGAIN :(

    Oh and also Jim, l forgot to mention in my last message. But l've already cleaned it off, and the leak us in the exact same place again. Right where the pinion shaft goes in to the differential. Behind the end cap that's on the very tip of the differential.

    Thanks again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Oh and also Jim, l forgot to mention in my last message. But l've already cleaned it off, and the leak us in the exact same place again. Right where the pinion shaft goes in to the differential. Behind the end cap that's on the very tip of the differential.

    Thanks again
    Trace, I think we are using different terminology when naming parts, we talk past each other.

    Typically a pinion leak is in one or more of three areas;

    between the pinion shaft or stem splines and the pinion flange splines coming past the pinion stem nut; between the pinion rubber seal surface and the contacting pinion flange surface;

    or between the pinion seal outer shell and the differential carrier.

    Damages to any of these sealing surfaces and insufficient sealing can produce a leak.

    Other causes are cracks and gouges in these surfaces as well.

    TYPICAL PINION LEAK.jpg
    Jim Murphy
    EX-Lehman & Champion Dealer Owner Operator
    Iron Butt Rider 2001

    WHEN HELP IS OFFERED, A SIMPLE "THANK YOU" IS APPRECIATED.

  9. #19
    30+ Posts Trace's Avatar
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    Default Pinion Seal Headache AGAIN :(

    Hello again Jim, thanks for your help on this & the diagram as well. I'm not sure where it's leaking at other than it's coming out of the front where the cover is over the large nut. When l get back home l'm having a different person try to see what the problem is. Hopefully this time it can be resolved, thanks again!! Trace

  10. #20
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    Not to muddy things, but just as an example. I have a few Fords, 4 have the 8.8" integral rear (well one has just the center with IRS half shafts) . anyway, none were leaking except the one with lowest miles, my Wife's '08 Mustang GT was leaking just a few months after we got it, had 23,xxx miles. Pretty good leak, but I noticed that I could back it up on ramps, crawl under it and wipe clean and use some brake clean and have it dry, and it would stay dry until next time we took it out. I was going to R&R the seal, but after thinking on it, recalling several Ford police cars, our '01 Mercury, my '95 T-bird, my two pickups, our trike (6.75 rear), then of all the 14 police cars assigned over 31+ years, my various other personal cars, I only ever had one, a Chevrolet Caprice police car have a leaking pinion seal where you see oil drips like I saw under the Mustang. I suspected a dirt dobber maybe built in the vent hose and stopped it up so I looked. The Mustang had NO hose, it had a small vent with a light spring loaded disc valve under a crimped on top hat. I know the disc is only lightly spring loaded to prevent water incursion, but it's a small hole it blocks. When pressure builds in the rear from heat, it has to push against that spring to vent, the hole is maybe 1/4". It probably takes some couple or three psi to push it open. I take zero psi to push through an open ended hose. I also looked, all my other cars and my PU have hoses that go high to a loop. I bought a proper threaded hose barb, ran a 3/8ID hose from the barb up to the body, then looped it into a frame rail. I zip tied a screen on the open end. NO MORE LEAKING PINION SEAL.
    Make Courtesy Your "Code of the Road" too!

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