Pinion Seal Headache

[Trace]

I have a 2003 Goldwing 1800 w/a Champion trike kit. W/a Champion vin # 6265. I believe it is also a 2003. I was told that if the flange on the driveshaft that connects to the differential. Has nuts the connecting bolts instead of being threaded directly into the flange on the differential. Then that means it's a Toyota differential. The trouble l'm having is not knowing what model of Toyota differential is used by Champion. Did they use a Tacoma, or a 4Runner or what? I can't just go in to an auto parts store & say l need a pinion seal for a Toyota differential. If anyone knows what model of Toyota differential was used PLEASE let me know. Thanks in advance

[rhino 2]

I have a 2003 Goldwing 1800 w/a Champion trike kit. W/a Champion vin # 6265. I believe it is also a 2003. I was told that if the flange on the driveshaft that connects to the differential. Has nuts the connecting bolts instead of being threaded directly into the flange on the differential. Then that means it's a Toyota differential. The trouble l'm having is not knowing what model of Toyota differential is used by Champion. Did they use a Tacoma, or a 4Runner or what? I can't just go in to an auto parts store & say l need a pinion seal for a Toyota differential. If anyone knows what model of Toyota differential was used PLEASE let me know. Thanks in advance

Tracey....I can't help on the pinion seal, But i'm sure someone will chime in soon with the info you need......But in the mean time i can Welcome You To Trike-Talk .....

[Gorilla]

tracey welcome aboard. I believe someone will be able to answer you shortly.

[Scott1]

Popout the pinion seal and it should have a number on it and a auto parts store should be able to match the number.

[bikerbillone]

Maybe not a good idea and you've already tried Google and You Tube....

[CrystalPistol]

Lee H. Mann on here is pretty well versed on Champion trikes as well as Lehman trikes.

[Trace]

I just wanted to thank everyone on here that offered help with the issue l was having. I did manage to get the pinion seal replaced. I really wasn't in a position to remove the old one 1st to get a part# So I bought 3 different ones & luckily 1 of them was the right one. It's really a shame that there's not some sort of method. To tell what model of Toyota differential Champion used in their trike kits.

[Lee H. Mann]

I just wanted to thank everyone on here that offered help with the issue l was having. I did manage to get the pinion seal replaced. I really wasn't in a position to remove the old one 1st to get a part# So I bought 3 different ones & luckily 1 of them was the right one. It's really a shame that there's not some sort of method. To tell what model of Toyota differential Champion used in their trike kits.

Trace,

Here is your opportunity to shine and contribute to the Forum.

You now have the information, how about sharing it.

[Trace]

The seal that l ended up using, was for a pre-2005 Toyota Tacoma truck. The Tacoma truck was much smaller before 2005. And Champion switched to a Suzuki differential in mid year 2006. The reason l ended up w/3 different seals is because l couldn't find out what model of Toyota they used. So l got a seal for pretty much every possibiity there was. The kit on our trike is a 2003, so l'm not sure how many years they used the Tacoma differentials. However, l doubt they used a lot of different models. I took the Toyota part# for the Tacoma 90311-38047. And they cross referenced it over to a National brand part #710525. Hopefully this will be helpful to anyone else w/a pinion seal issue. When l called the new owner of Champion, he was not very helpful. Other than he was able to confirm that ours did in fact have a Toyota differential.

[Trace]

I wasn't sure how to go about making a new post. So, instead l'm just adding to my past post. The problem l'm having is that the leak @ the pinion seal, l had replaced has returned. I'm sure the correct seal was installed, because l had the auto parts cross reference the # off the one that was removed. The trike had less than 10k miles on it when it was replaced. The leak stopped for a short time, but then returned after a few hundred miles. I guess my ? to my fellow triker friends is. Did the person install the seal incorrectly or somehow damage it, or is there something else causing the leak? There's no vibration or strange sounds that l'm aware of. It's not leaking badly or dripping constantly, & if l wipe the oil off of it. It doesn't leak while the trike is setting, only after l drive it again, is when the oil reappears just behind the pinion seal area. Any help with this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Jack Klarich]

I wasn't sure how to go about making a new post. So, instead l'm just adding to my past post. The problem l'm having is that the leak @ the pinion seal, l had replaced has returned. I'm sure the correct seal was installed, because l had the auto parts cross reference the # off the one that was removed. The trike had less than 10k miles on it when it was replaced. The leak stopped for a short time, but then returned after a few hundred miles. I guess my ? to my fellow triker friends is. Did the person install the seal incorrectly or somehow damage it, or is there something else causing the leak? There's no vibration or strange sounds that l'm aware of. It's not leaking badly or dripping constantly, & if l wipe the oil off of it. It doesn't leak while the trike is setting, only after l drive it again, is when the oil reappears just behind the pinion seal area. Any help with this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

There are several reasons you could have a leak. Improper install, fluid too high, vent for rear end plugged, fluid leaking thru splines past the seal.

[Trace]

Thanks Jack, l wasn't aware there was a vent, but l'll check it out. I'm sure the fluid level is correct Because l've already checked that. I told the person that installed the seal, about putting silicone on the splines upon assembly & he said they usually do that. So l was under the impression that he was familiar w/that part of it. When l called him back after it started leaking again. He said the only thing left to do would be to change the pinion?? Sounds a bit extreme to me, when the trike has less than 10k miles on it.

[Trace]

Jack, I located the vent on the differential, and it's the kind that can't be removed. I did check it though and the little cap on it spins freely and it's very clean under there. From what I've read you can pop the cap off of the vent and check it or you can leave the cap off and run a little hose off of the tube that's in the differential. I did pry on it a little bit before I read about removing it and it didn't seem like it wanted to come off very easily. My question for you is since it's very clean under there and it has such low mileage on it. Do you think I should go ahead and pry it off to check to make sure it's not clogged or do you think it's okay to just figure it's not that and probably something else? I'm getting ready to go for a pretty long ride on Sunday and I don't want to risk messing something up by taking it apart and then not being able to extend it with a hose. Please let me know what you think about this thanks again

[Jack Klarich]

Jack, I located the vent on the differential, and it's the kind that can't be removed. I did check it though and the little cap on it spins freely and it's very clean under there. From what I've read you can pop the cap off of the vent and check it or you can leave the cap off and run a little hose off of the tube that's in the differential. I did pry on it a little bit before I read about removing it and it didn't seem like it wanted to come off very easily. My question for you is since it's very clean under there and it has such low mileage on it. Do you think I should go ahead and pry it off to check to make sure it's not clogged or do you think it's okay to just figure it's not that and probably something else? I'm getting ready to go for a pretty long ride on Sunday and I don't want to risk messing something up by taking it apart and then not being able to extend it with a hose. Please let me know what you think about this thanks again

The chances are good the vent is OK, myself I like to be sure when doing a job like this

The chances are higher the seal may have been nicked during installation and or the garter spring on the seal is dislodged

[Lee H. Mann]

The chances are good the vent is OK, myself I like to be sure when doing a job like this

The chances are higher the seal may have been nicked during installation and or the garter spring on the seal is dislodged

I wonder if the pinion flange itself has a groove on it .....

How does the flange fit in the seal ?

Clean everything and see exactly where the oil is coming from...

[Trace]

Hello Jim, thanks for your response. I'm not sure how the flange fits, because l had someone else do it for me. I had it narrowed down to 3 different seals. The person that installed it for me said that the seal for the pre 05' Tacoma was an exact fit. It didn't leak for a few hundred miles, but then it started again. It inly leaks when it's in motion though, it doesn't leave any drips on cardboard etc if you leave it set. To be absolutely sure l had the correct seal, l had the number off the old one. Cross referenced at the auto parts. And it was in fact the same number as the one l had installed. The other thing that has me puzzled is that Toyota used the same seal on their mini trucks up until 1995. The strange thing is that from what l can find, all their trucks had 5 lug wheels.

A Champion trike has 4 lug wheels. I cant find any way to tell what vehicle they made that used that differential & had a 4 lug wheel pattern. Not that that really matters all that much. But from what l can find, Toyota produced 3 different differentials for their trucks, & the most common is called the "4 cylinder" differential. This is most likely the one that champion used in their kits. I can't explain why they have the 4 lug pattern though. I guess l'll just have to find someone in my area that isn't afraid to work on a trike. Sorry for such a long reply

[Trace]

Oh and also Jim, l forgot to mention in my last message. But l've already cleaned it off, and the leak us in the exact same place again. Right where the pinion shaft goes in to the differential. Behind the end cap that's on the very tip of the differential.

Thanks again

[Lee H. Mann]

Oh and also Jim, l forgot to mention in my last message. But l've already cleaned it off, and the leak us in the exact same place again. Right where the pinion shaft goes in to the differential. Behind the end cap that's on the very tip of the differential.

Thanks again

Trace, I think we are using different terminology when naming parts, we talk past each other.

Typically a pinion leak is in one or more of three areas;

between the pinion shaft or stem splines and the pinion flange splines coming past the pinion stem nut; between the pinion rubber seal surface and the contacting pinion flange surface;

or between the pinion seal outer shell and the differential carrier.

Damages to any of these sealing surfaces and insufficient sealing can produce a leak.

Other causes are cracks and gouges in these surfaces as well.

[Trace]

Hello again Jim, thanks for your help on this & the diagram as well. I'm not sure where it's leaking at other than it's coming out of the front where the cover is over the large nut. When l get back home l'm having a different person try to see what the problem is. Hopefully this time it can be resolved, thanks again!! Trace

[CrystalPistol]

Not to muddy things, but just as an example. I have a few Fords, 4 have the 8.8" integral rear (well one has just the center with IRS half shafts) …. anyway, none were leaking except the one with lowest miles, my Wife's '08 Mustang GT was leaking just a few months after we got it, had 23,xxx miles. Pretty good leak, but I noticed that I could back it up on ramps, crawl under it and wipe clean and use some brake clean and have it dry, and it would stay dry until next time we took it out. I was going to R&R the seal, but after thinking on it, recalling several Ford police cars, our '01 Mercury, my '95 T-bird, my two pickups, our trike (6.75 rear), then of all the 14 police cars assigned over 31+ years, my various other personal cars, I only ever had one, a Chevrolet Caprice police car have a leaking pinion seal where you see oil drips like I saw under the Mustang. I suspected a dirt dobber maybe built in the vent hose and stopped it up so I looked. The Mustang had NO hose, it had a small vent with a light spring loaded disc valve under a crimped on top hat. I know the disc is only lightly spring loaded to prevent water incursion, but it's a small hole it blocks. When pressure builds in the rear from heat, it has to push against that spring to vent, the hole is maybe 1/4". It probably takes some couple or three psi to push it open. I take zero psi to push through an open ended hose. I also looked, all my other cars and my PU have hoses that go high to a loop. I bought a proper threaded hose barb, ran a 3/8ID hose from the barb up to the body, then looped it into a frame rail. I zip tied a screen on the open end. NO MORE LEAKING PINION SEAL.