Pinion Seal Headache

[Trace]

Hello & thanks for your input on this, l do really appreciate everyone's help with this. Jack had also mentioned about the vent on the rear end/ differential. I did locate it and it's the same type you're speaking of w/the little pressed on cap. It moves freely & l did pry on it a little w/a screw driver. It seemed like it didn't want to come off unless l would really pry on it. This was before l read anything further about putting a hose on etc. The trike has such low miles on it & it's so clean under there, that l just couldn't see how it could be clogged up. After reading what other people on here said about attaching a hose to it. I was considering doing it, but we were leaving for an extended ride the next day, so l decided not to do it. I was afraid of breaking something off What you have described is pretty much exactly how mine's behaving though. It only leaks out of the pinion seal area, after l've run it a while. It can set in the garage over a piece of card board for days & l won't see as much as a drop. Do you think it could possibly be clogged even though it's practically like new underneath? Thanks for your help w/this

[Jack Klarich]

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Tracy, if you use a pliers you can remove the hat on that vent, then you can put a hose on the tube with a clamp and run the hose up under the body Once you get the hat off you can run a small drill bit thru the center to make sure the hole is not plugged

[Trace]

Oh and just one other thing that l forgot to mention is that on my differential. The little tube that has the cap on it ISN'T removable at least it doesn't seem like it is anyway. It appears as though it's pressed in somehow. So my only other option, if l were to remove the little cap. Would be to attach a hose directly to the little vent tube. Do you think that would be long enough to hold the hose on w/a small clamp??

[Trace]

Hi Jack, thanks for your reply, that's sort of what l had in mind as well. So just so l'm sure here, you're saying that little cap thing. Should just pop off of there, & then the tube will be long enough to attach a hose?? I just want to make certain before l go any further with it. But at least this way l can rule out the vent being the problem. I guess there's a chance the vent tube could have somehow gotten gummed up. I was told when l bought it that it had sat for 10 yrs or more.

[rhino 2]

Hello & thanks for your input on this, l do really appreciate everyone's help with this. Jack had also mentioned about the vent on the rear end/ differential. I did locate it and it's the same type you're speaking of w/the little pressed on cap. It moves freely & l did pry on it a little w/a screw driver. It seemed like it didn't want to come off unless l would really pry on it. This was before l read anything further about putting a hose on etc. The trike has such low miles on it & it's so clean under there, that l just couldn't see how it could be clogged up. After reading what other people on here said about attaching a hose to it. I was considering doing it, but we were leaving for an extended ride the next day, so l decided not to do it. I was afraid of breaking something off What you have described is pretty much exactly how mine's behaving though. It only leaks out of the pinion seal area, after l've run it a while. It can set in the garage over a piece of card board for days & l won't see as much as a drop. Do you think it could possibly be clogged even though it's practically like new underneath? Thanks for your help w/this

Anything is possible......If the vent is not working properly as the oil gets hot from riding it expands and has go somewhere it could also be a combination of too much oil ' And a nonworking vent...?...Maybe the wrong weight oil in the differential too thin.?...

[Trace]

When l had the pinion seal replaced, the mechanic that installed it, had put 80w90 in it. It didn't leak for a few hundred miles, but then it started again. So....... I then read that Champion recommends 85w140, so l drained it back out into a large measuring cup & it had exactly 1 qt. in it. So l put a qt. of the 85w140 back in and it was still just slightly below the fill hole. So l'm pretty sure l can rule out that's it's too full. One thing that had me puzzled though is that if l wipe the area off where the drips are. It tries to get wet again in that area even if l only drive it for a few miles. That's why l don't see how it can hot enough to build up pressure if it's the vent. Do you think that's long enough for it to build up heat & for e the oil out??

[Sidecarbill]

If you pull the vent cap, whatever you do don't run drill through it unless it's off the bike. You don't want metal shavings in the rear end. Is there any play or side movement at the pinion? Why did the mechanic that replaced it say if that doesn't fix it, it will need a new pinion?

[Trace]

Hello Sidecar Bill, l hope you're doing well & thanks for your response. I think l'm going to just use a piece of coat hanger wire & maybe bend it like an allen wrench. And try to push it through the hole, that way there's no way l can accidentally drop it in. I don't think there's any play in the pinion shaft & l don't know why the mechanic said about. The only other thing l could do is change the pinion. I don't know if he's done many of these, because they mostly work on ATV'S. I had to sort of "talk" him in to doing it for me. One of my concerns was about putting silicone on the splines before reassembling the pinion etc. I would have thought that would be something that would need time to set up before putting things back together, but maybe l'm wrong? I would think the oil would just go right by the silicone if it wasn't fully cured. My other concern before removing the vent cap is that l'm not sure if that little tube has some sort of flanged end or if it's just a straight end in it. Because if l remove it l need to be able to slide a hose over the end of it & there's no room in there to remove a flanged end. Also when l first bought this trike about a year ago. The guys at the shop had told me that it was a one owner trike & the owner had bought it new in 03' & immediately had it converted. He put roughly 7k miles on it but then became ill & passed away. So the trike had sit for at least 10 yrs before l got it. However when l changed the oil about 2 months ago. That's when l noticed the differential was leaking @ the. pinion. And it had quite a bit of dirt built up on it. So l'm thinking it may have even been leaking when the original owner had it. I think Champion changes the pinions & maybe the axles as well because the Toyota pickups have a much lower gear ratio. And l can't figure out why the trike only has a 4 lug wheel pattern. Because from what l can find the Toyota trucks had 5 lug patterns. So my question to this long reply is, if this thing may have started leaking shortly after the original owner started riding it? Maybe the differential vent isn't functioning? If you have an opinion l'd greatly appreciate it, & thank you for taking the time to read this mess.

[Jack Klarich]

Hi Jack, thanks for your reply, that's sort of what l had in mind as well. So just so l'm sure here, you're saying that little cap thing. Should just pop off of there, & then the tube will be long enough to attach a hose?? I just want to make certain before l go any further with it. But at least this way l can rule out the vent being the problem. I guess there's a chance the vent tube could have somehow gotten gummed up. I was told when l bought it that it had sat for 10 yrs or more.

Yes I would surely try that. When I said run a drill thru it I should have been more clear. You would be only using the drill bit by hand to make sure the hole is not plugged up. A piece of wire would also work. The nipple end of the barb where the hat was should be long enuff to attach a hose and clamp. Loop the hose up.

[Trace]

Hi again Jack, thanks for the response, l sort of thought that was the way you meant to use the drill bit. I'm not sure there's enough room to do that though. That's why l had the wire idea, well that & the fear of accidentally dropping the drill bit

I think when we get back, l'm going to go ahead & remove the little cap & attach a hose to the tube. Then drive it somewhere, to test it for leakage. And if it doesn't solve the problem, then l guess l'll just have the seal replaced again by someone else. Did you read what l had said about the whole silicone on the splines? If so what are your thoughts on that?

[Sidecarbill]

If the splines are leaking, you would see oil on the flange where the nut tightens to it. I'd make sure the vent is open. And if it was mine run it awhile see if it gets better or worse. Could be he just greased the seal real well before he installed it. And now you're seeing the residual effects of that.

[Trace]

Hi sidecar Bill, l'm quite certain it's leaking past the seal vs. grease. Because when l drained the 85w90 out & replaced it with the 85w140. The heavier oil has a green tint to it& & l can see it. At the seam where the cap butts up against the front of the differential where the pinion seal is. I will absolutely take that little cap off & check for blockage & put a hose in its place. Then l guess l'll just go from there. I'm really hoping that solves the issue. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

[Jack Klarich]

Oh and just one other thing that l forgot to mention is that on my differential. The little tube that has the cap on it ISN'T removable at least it doesn't seem like it is anyway. It appears as though it's pressed in somehow. So my only other option, if l were to remove the little cap. Would be to attach a hose directly to the little vent tube. Do you think that would be long enough to hold the hose on w/a small clamp??

does this look like the vent?

[Sidecarbill]

Maybe you can take a picture so we can see exactly where it's leaking.

[Trace]

No, that's what l was expecting to find as well. But the one on mine isn't removable. Instead it's pressed or somehow fastened into the differential. It has a small cap that is somehow crimped on, that is also very stubborn to remove. It does move freely though & seems springy if you push on it. So l don't think it's frozen, but maybe it has some sort of blockage?

[Jack Klarich]

No, that's what l was expecting to find as well. But the one on mine isn't removable. Instead it's pressed or somehow fastened into the differential. It has a small cap that is somehow crimped on, that is also very stubborn to remove. It does move freely though & seems springy if you push on it. So l don't think it's frozen, but maybe it has some sort of blockage?

Understood. Many are a light press fit. Some are even plastic. GM has used that type for years. While it is possible yours has some blockage or the valve is sticking some, if it were my ride I would rip the hat off with a twisting motion and put a hose on it. WE did many 4 wheel drive trucks like that for years. This would give you peace of mind IMO plus a better venting system ( less chance of water and dirt intrusion plus more volume for more pressure venting) Good Luck and keep us updated

[Trace]

I would post a picture in here, but l'm not able to at this time. As l need to remove the tire to make it visible. It's just a small stem about the same diameter as a pencil. With a little flat cap crimped

to the top, that you can spin w/you finger. I pried on it a little, but l don't think it's intended to be removed/replaced. Which to me is a very poor design indeed.

[Trace]

Ok, so l'll try to pop the little cap off when l get it back home. Like l had said on here before though it seems like it's on there pretty good. But at least now thanks to all of you, l know it can be removed. Is the purpose of looping the hose to keep water from getting in there?? Thanks again

[Jack Klarich]

Ok, so l'll try to pop the little cap off when l get it back home. Like l had said on here before though it seems like it's on there pretty good. But at least now thanks to all of you, l know it can be removed. Is the purpose of looping the hose to keep water from getting in there?? Thanks again

Yes, the loop will help to keep water out

The cap on the vent is crimped on, if you squeeze it in a few spots with a pliers it should wiggle off

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Ok, so l'll try to pop the little cap off when l get it back home. Like l had said on here before though it seems like it's on there pretty good. But at least now thanks to all of you, l know it can be removed. Is the purpose of looping the hose to keep water from getting in there?? Thanks again

Yes, the loop will help to keep water out

The cap on the vent is crimped on, if you squeeze it in a few spots with a pliers it should wiggle off

[Trace]

Do you mean squeeze it around the edge of the lip on the top? Or do you mean grip around the whole thing and jiggle it up? I just want to be sure l do this correctly. Because l don't want to damage that little stem under the cap right?