Video - Does Your Harley REALLY Need an Oil Cooler?

[DK Custom Products]

I was at a Harley dealer today talking with the parts manager getting a new oil filter, told him I was putting on a oil filter relocation kit , He laughed asked were it mounted told him under the passenger foot board he said come look at this , go to the shop there sits a 2020 black tri with no motor in it and it has no warrantee Harley said the aftermarket oil filter relocation kit and the oil cooler was to much for the little heart to handle.

Asked him who owned it or were it was from, would not answer me ? Im going let mine kit sit on the bench for a while see where this goes ?

I completely respect and understand you're wanting to wait and see. Last thing anyone wants to do to their ride is install something that may hurt it.

The parts manager you referenced is either ignorant of how Harley engines work (and how the oil filter and oil cooler work) or is being disingenuous.

We would never make a part available that jeopardizes someone's engine, or overtaxes the oil pump.

Of course, most folks do not know us, and many folks may think we are just trying to sell parts and will say anything...or maybe we are ignorant. I understand that too.

We regularly hear from employees at dealerships that have not the foggiest idea what they are talking about, BUT they have customers that trust them implicitly.

We hear from them because they call us and and say this or that part cannot be installed, or ask us how to install this or that, having never read the instructions that came with the part. We then proceed to read the instructions to them so they can finish their installation. It is difficult to communicate, or understand, the depth of incompetence at so many dealerships.

And while on the subject, it is not just HD dealerships. Last week Mary took her truck in to one of the largest Ford Dealerships in the mid-south for a regular service. I copied the page from the manual where it says part of the service is to lube the grease fittings on the front axle u-joints, and asked her to make sure they did that too.

They explained to her that there are no zerk (grease) fittings, everything is sealed. She asked them to please look, she was sure there were (because I assured her there were) and also the manual says there are. They spent 5 minutes making her feel stupid for not believing them. She left without them doing it.

I got home, crawled under the truck, and in 5 seconds had my hand on the "non-existent" grease fitting.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent, but it illustrates the unfathomable incompetence and arrogance of many employees at many dealerships.

I completely understand being very cautious, and would never try and convince anyone to do something with their ride that they are not 100% comfortable with.

I do want to assure you that the parts, properly installed, will not damage or overtax any engine they are made for....we simply would not do that.

Kevin

[Jack Klarich]

Kevin, I agree with your standing behind ALL of your (tested in house) products and I also think HD is missing a bigger problem with the oil pumps. The gear rotor pump is a very good pump, however what I think HD is missing is the pumps cannot keep up with the air pressures in the crank cases. The pump by itself cannot overcome the air and oil at the same time. This is creating a vacuum that will lead to sumping. This is JMO, what I cannot still figure out is why do not ALL M8 engines sump? I also believe the head breathers are not able to remove the pressure in the cases fully and need to be addressed by HD

[DK Custom Products]

Kevin, I agree with your standing behind ALL of your (tested in house) products and I also think HD is missing a bigger problem with the oil pumps. The gear rotor pump is a very good pump, however what I think HD is missing is the pumps cannot keep up with the air pressures in the crank cases. The pump by itself cannot overcome the air and oil at the same time. This is creating a vacuum that will lead to sumping. This is JMO, what I cannot still figure out is why do not ALL M8 engines sump? I also believe the head breathers are not able to remove the pressure in the cases fully and need to be addressed by HD

Thanks Jack.

Yes, the M8's have had random oil pump problems. These problems occur stock & with various mods. The mods are not the problem, it is the oil pump. If it is going to have a problem it will have it, regardless of the mods. The problems do seem to be less frequent in later years, but it is not completely resolved. What are they on now...like the 8th revision of the oil pump on the M8's?

On the Twin Cams there were oil pump issues, but not catastrophic like on the M8's. On the Twin Cams the scavenging did not work so well on some bikes (resulting in excessive blow-by), but that was because of the crank being slightly out of round. The pumps themselves were fine, unless they were paired with a crank that was too far out of round.

I do not know if that is the issue on the M8's or not...have not researched it.

Kevin

[ROAD DOG]

Thanks Jack.

Yes, the M8's have had random oil pump problems. These problems occur stock & with various mods. The mods are not the problem, it is the oil pump. If it is going to have a problem it will have it, regardless of the mods. The problems do seem to be less frequent in later years, but it is not completely resolved. What are they on now...like the 8th revision of the oil pump on the M8's?

On the Twin Cams there were oil pump issues, but not catastrophic like on the M8's. On the Twin Cams the scavenging did not work so well on some bikes (resulting in excessive blow-by), but that was because of the crank being slightly out of round. The pumps themselves were fine, unless they were paired with a crank that was too far out of round.

I do not know if that is the issue on the M8's or not...have not researched it.

Kevin

The problem is Harley see's the aftermarket oil cooler and 8 feet of hose now they cancell the warranty ,like any aftermarket motor part they get out of warranting that motor that has known problem's ? they paid the fine to the E P A, but in the long run Harley is making out better by consumer's changing exhaust cutting out cat's changing air filter's cam's what ever that make's there bike bike non E PA compliant Harley tell's the customer we have to cancell your warranty because you altered the emission on your bike with aftermarket part's , They say it's not us the E P A make's us do it or we get fined again . Buy harley part's have the dealer install or were sorry your warranty is cancelled WIN WIN WIN for Harley

[ROAD DOG]

I completely respect and understand you're wanting to wait and see. Last thing anyone wants to do to their ride is install something that may hurt it.

The parts manager you referenced is either ignorant of how Harley engines work (and how the oil filter and oil cooler work) or is being disingenuous.

What he said was go to Macdonalds buy a thick milkshake cut the straw down to 2" suck on it you will get milkshake instantly, Get 10 straw's = " 8' of oil line and cooler" tape them together you will suck your eye ball's out of your head before you get milkshake ? Funny Guy It does make sence to me that could cause problem's with a allready weak oil system ?

[rhino 2]

The problem is Harley see's the aftermarket oil cooler and 8 feet of hose now they cancell the warranty ,like any aftermarket motor part they get out of warranting that motor that has known problem's ? they paid the fine to the E P A, but in the long run Harley is making out better by consumer's changing exhaust cutting out cat's changing air filter's cam's what ever that make's there bike bike non E PA compliant Harley tell's the customer we have to cancell your warranty because you altered the emission on your bike with aftermarket part's , They say it's not us the E P A make's us do it or we get fined again . Buy harley part's have the dealer install or were sorry your warranty is cancelled WIN WIN WIN for Harley

Devils Advocate Here........And Hypothetically speaking.......You have a Stock Tri-Glide in perfect condition and sell it to someone, And to sweeten the deal give the buyer a 30 day Guarantee...........And then the buyer 10 days later blows the engine and wants you to pay for a new engine......And upon looking at the Trike you find he the buyer added all those after market parts that you mentioned to the perfectly stock Trike you sold to him ..... ....What would you say to the buyer....????

[ROAD DOG]

Devils Advocate Here........And Hypothetically speaking.......You have a Stock Tri-Glide in perfect condition and sell it to someone, And to sweeten the deal give the buyer a 30 day Guarantee...........And then the buyer 10 days later blows the engine and wants you to pay for a new engine......And upon looking at the Trike you find he the buyer added all those after market parts that you mentioned to the perfectly stock Trike you sold to him ..... ....What would you say to the buyer....????

That's simple F U

[DK Custom Products]

The problem is Harley see's the aftermarket oil cooler and 8 feet of hose now they cancell the warranty ,like any aftermarket motor part they get out of warranting that motor that has known problem's ? they paid the fine to the E P A, but in the long run Harley is making out better by consumer's changing exhaust cutting out cat's changing air filter's cam's what ever that make's there bike bike non E PA compliant Harley tell's the customer we have to cancell your warranty because you altered the emission on your bike with aftermarket part's , They say it's not us the E P A make's us do it or we get fined again . Buy harley part's have the dealer install or were sorry your warranty is cancelled WIN WIN WIN for Harley

Dead on correct! The EPA fine was money well spent by Harley to bypass the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that was put in place to protect the consumer.

Kevin

[DK Custom Products]

[QUOTE=ROAD DOG;824215]

I completely respect and understand you're wanting to wait and see. Last thing anyone wants to do to their ride is install something that may hurt it.



The parts manager you referenced is either ignorant of how Harley engines work (and how the oil filter and oil cooler work) or is being disingenuous.

What he said was go to Macdonalds buy a thick milkshake cut the straw down to 2" suck on it you will get milkshake instantly, Get 10 straw's = " 8' of oil line and cooler" tape them together you will suck your eye ball's out of your head before you get milkshake ? Funny Guy It doe's make cence to me that could cause problem's with a allready weak oil system ?

Yeah, seems right on the surface. But that is not how it works. (milkshake, oil, sucking, pushing, etc.)

On top of that, there are tens of thousands of M8's running around with no oil pump problems, tens of thousands of which have oil coolers from the factory(see every M8 Softail oil cooler and oil cooler lines) and thousands of which have oil filter relocations...with zero problems.

The problem is the random oil pump that is somehow defective and does not pump correctly, regardless of any mods.

But, again, I completely understand holding off.

I rode an M8 Tri-Glide the day they were released, in 2016. I really like that engine. But I held off on getting one for almost 3 years. Did not want to take the chance on getting one that might have a problem (as so many did in the first couple of years).



Kevin

[DK Custom Products]

Here's a video of a test ride on the first M8 Street Glide to arrive in the Memphis area. Rode this before we rode the M8 Tri Glide a month later.

Note how long all the oil hoses are that feed and return oil to the heads and the oil cooler.



Kevin

[DK Custom Products]

Devils Advocate Here........And Hypothetically speaking.......You have a Stock Tri-Glide in perfect condition and sell it to someone, And to sweeten the deal give the buyer a 30 day Guarantee...........And then the buyer 10 days later blows the engine and wants you to pay for a new engine......And upon looking at the Trike you find he the buyer added all those after market parts that you mentioned to the perfectly stock Trike you sold to him ..... ....What would you say to the buyer....????

I think the MM Act is appropriate. If the mod caused the problem, then he voided the warranty.

If his mod did not cause the problem, he did not void the warranty.

Just 1 example of how Harley is abusing the illegal power give to them by the Consent Decree with the EPA-

Someone installs V&H slip-ons onto their M8 Softail. A month later one of the sparks plugs rattle loose out of the head. The slip-ons had NO bearing on the spark plug being installed loose at the factory, resulting in damaged threads in the head.

But the entire power train warranty is voided. Ridiculous, but that is the intended consequence of the collusion the occurred between Harley & the EPA.

Kevin

[ROAD DOG]

No, the temps should...should be in the daytime 60s and cooler at night. But, can snow anytime in the midwest!

Love Beartooth! We've done it twice...but never on the trike. Daughter was 15 yrs old on our 1st trip...SD motorcycle learners permit... on a 650 Suzuki single...was that called a 'Bandit'? Stayed in Red Lodge, so up to Cooke City and back. Her first big trip, from NE SD there and back. Wife and I were on a 650 Yamaha V Star. This was back in 2007. Don't want to ride 1800 miles on either bike again! 2nd time was a solo trip on the Heritage in 2014 or 2015 I think?,....total blast!!

It's about 800+ miles to Red Lodge from home...hmmmm, 2 day ride out, ride the Pass, 2 days home...easy week! May have to keep July in play!!

Got a call from the HD service mgr today (Saturday). With nicer weather back home, they were able to put some miles on the Tri. He said the tech had bypassed the relocated filter and cooler, rode it around 40 miles and no clicking sound. He recommended the higher pressure pump. We were out on a ride, so I wasn't able to read back what you had told me in the previous post about oil pressure and start up, etc. The dealership is closed Sunday and Monday, so I told him I'd call back on Tuesday when I could be at the computer and read our conversation to him. Wait and see, I guess....and, I forgot to ask about my ESP coverage or estimated cost if not covered.

Thanks,

Bill

What was the out come? was it a new oil pump ? was it covered by warranty ?

[ROAD DOG]

wwwww

I completely respect and understand you're wanting to wait and see. Last thing anyone wants to do to their ride is install something that may hurt it.



The parts manager you referenced is either ignorant of how Harley engines work (and how the oil filter and oil cooler work) or is being disingenuous.

We would never make a part available that jeopardizes someone's engine or overtaxes the oil pump

Kevin Quote



I put my new motor in And decided to put the oil filter relocation kit on, I was makin sure it was clean lookin at the fitting for the hoses, the fitting go from about 5/16 inside diameter to about 3/16 inside diameter that seams like a lot of restriction ? I removed them and drilled them out to 5/16 all the way through , the other thing I did not like was the 1/4 " bolts with 5/16 washer going into 5/16 holes , I went and got some stainless 5/16 bolts, nuts and washers , it seems so much better fit. Oil pressure seems about the same . see how it goes ?













Kevin

[ROAD DOG]

No, the temps should...should be in the daytime 60s and cooler at night. But, can snow anytime in the midwest!

Love Beartooth! We've done it twice...but never on the trike. Daughter was 15 yrs old on our 1st trip...SD motorcycle learners permit... on a 650 Suzuki single...was that called a 'Bandit'? Stayed in Red Lodge, so up to Cooke City and back. Her first big trip, from NE SD there and back. Wife and I were on a 650 Yamaha V Star. This was back in 2007. Don't want to ride 1800 miles on either bike again! 2nd time was a solo trip on the Heritage in 2014 or 2015 I think?,....total blast!!

It's about 800+ miles to Red Lodge from home...hmmmm, 2 day ride out, ride the Pass, 2 days home...easy week! May have to keep July in play!!

Got a call from the HD service mgr today (Saturday). With nicer weather back home, they were able to put some miles on the Tri. He said the tech had bypassed the relocated filter and cooler, rode it around 40 miles and no clicking sound. He recommended the higher pressure pump. We were out on a ride, so I wasn't able to read back what you had told me in the previous post about oil pressure and start up, etc. The dealership is closed Sunday and Monday, so I told him I'd call back on Tuesday when I could be at the computer and read our conversation to him. Wait and see, I guess....and, I forgot to ask about my ESP coverage or estimated cost if not covered.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill what was the outcome of this , Did they get it fixed ?

[ROAD DOG]

Got a call from the HD service mgr today (Saturday). With nicer weather back home, they were able to put some miles on the Tri. He said the tech had bypassed the relocated filter and cooler, rode it around 40 miles and no clicking sound. He recommended the higher pressure pump. We were out on a ride, so I wasn't able to read back what you had told me in the previous post about oil pressure and start up, etc. The dealership is closed Sunday and Monday, so I told him I'd call back on Tuesday when I could be at the computer and read our conversation to him. Wait and see, I guess....and, I forgot to ask about my ESP coverage or estimated cost if not covered.

Thanks,

Bill

Did you ever get this Trike fixed was wondering what was the cause ? Thanks Dan