Shake Them Rear Ends

[1550vt]

Spring has sprung the I hear scooters rumbling all up and down the highway in ever-increasing numbers. This is just a reminder for those early Lehman kitted owners. I had a wheel bearing failure out in the middle of nowhere last year and managed to replace it in small town USA.....got real lucky. Lehman used a standard Ford rear wheel bearing. Problem is....nobody uses that wheel bearing any longer and they can be hard to find. It's a sealed RW207CCRA and when I got mine home and changed all the rear bearings, they were all leaking grease and were getting dry. If an outer one fails, the rear end will have to be removed and gutted to replace the inner bearing it damaged. I never leave home on a long trip without a spare RW207 in the toolbox.

If you have some age on your kitted Lehman and over 20K-25K miles on it...you need to either have them looked at, or at least jack the rear end up and see if you can detect any slack. The belt-driven models have the same inner and outer bearing. The inners on shaft drive models are sealed inside the axle-tube, but could still be damaged if an outer fails and you would be surprised what type differentials Lehman used....as in small foreign car of some kind that most mechanics can't identify.

Just a friendly reminder.

 

[Boscoporp]

Do you have any idea which one a Motor Trike uses?

 

[1550vt]

Probably something better...(LOL). I just happen to know that Lehman used this same bearing for many years in both the belt drive and shaft drive kits. I had only heard a few "rumors" here-n-there about Lehman having issues with these bearings.....until one of mine crapped-out around 2,000 miles from home. All the manufacturers use standard automobile components in some areas. Lehman used a lot of early Ford stuff (80's to 90's) and some of these components are no longer stocked on the shelves of auto parts houses. I am sure it's a rarity to have one fail, but what disturbed me was that when I look at all of mine...they had shown evidence of leaking grease past the seals.

If you jack the rear end up and try to move the wheel up and down or fore-n-aft...an itty-bitty amount of slack may be considered normal. I think you would be able to tell if you have too much. Another good test is to ride the trike forward and slam on the rear brake....then let it coast backwards and slam on the rear brake. if you hear any "clunking" at all....it's a dead giveaway unless something else is loose.

 

[mmkrnh8012]

Lehman were using pinto rearends. that is my undrestanding.

 

[1550vt]

Actually....not the entire rear end....just some components thereof. Us Lehman owners don't like to admit it....but it's true. We like to use the term "Fox-Bodied" cars. The Mustang, T-Bird, Pinto and lots of others in this family of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles used the same components.

Lehman uses (or did use) some foreign car differential on the shaft drives. I was helping a guy convert his drums to disc-brakes on a Honda and I could not identify just how to pull the axles, so he took some good pictures and made the rounds of all the mechanics and auto dealerships he knew of. One said it looked like some form of Chrysler, but most simply said..."I have never seen anything like that before".

I like to tell everybody that my parts came from a Mustang. Actually, the axle is the same, so I may have Mustang axles? To this day, the TG carries the same 4 x 4.25 bolt pattern. I know the TG (and maybe more recent Lehman kits) have a different axle-flange and likely a different sealed bearing. The last time I tried to identify the TG axle-flange pattern....it was not on any chart of standardized patterns. Lehman is as bad as (or worse) than Harley when it comes to using hard-to-find aftermarket parts and they do everything they can to keep things a secret and force you to have to go back to them for parts or service. They may have "invented" a new bearing size for all I know.

Like-it-or-not....the new TG owners are riding on some Pinto parts too!

 

[Lehman Trikes]

I would like to add some clarity to the discussion on Lehman differentials and axle bearings. Our design is based upon Pinto/Mustang II rear end assemblies. We have brand new housings made and assembled with all new components based on that design. The bearings and seals should interchange with your local auto parts store’s replacement parts for that vintage Pinto/Mustang II differential.

Axle Bearing BCA RW207CCRA
Axle Seal (shaft drive models) National 3214 or NAPA 13985

The axle bearings are the same ones originally specified by Ford Motor Co in that design. The same is true for the axle flange bolt pattern. It is the same 4 bolt on 4-1/4 bolt circle lug pattern that was used on those early Fords.

The TG differential is a completely different design that was created specifically for H-D Motor Co. by their chosen supplier.

 

[1550vt]

What you said is pretty much what I said...I think. I had to figure it out all on my own. The reason that I had to was that your company listed on their web pages a disc brake conversion kit. No dealer had one, yet admitted it was posted on the site. I eventually was told by somebody at Lehman through a dealer that the kit was not available (even though it was still on the website) and nobody ever could explain why. I was told for the small sum of $4,000 I could get a new rear end equipped with disc brakes, but I said no thank you and figured out how Lehman built this rear end and I made my own conversion and have since helped several other folks do this disc conversion for around $300-$400 using radially mounted calipers and Thunderbird rotors.

I certainly appreciate your support as a sponsor, but I have one bone to pick with Lehman. The wife and I made a special trip to Spearfish once and parked right out front on our Renegade kitted Ultra. We entered through the front door and no sooner got inside before we were greeted by the most unfriendly lady I have ever had the occasion to meet posing as a front-office employee. She asked us what we wanted and I explained to her that we were a long way from home on a trip and came by to visit the home of our Lehman kit. Witch Hazel told me...."we don't give tours and if you need something go see a dealer".

I certainly hope Lehman has made some progress in the public relations department since then.

 

[1550vt]

Okay....I have vented. Now let me tone my rhetoric down a bit and say that I really appreciate a manufacturer like Lehman actually participating in the forum. It is a bold step to make yourself a target for a customer that has had a bad experience.....and I've had a couple. This is the way we all make improvements and I really do appreciate your input.

I have been on a Lehman Renegade for over 10-years now and I think as compared to other kits, it's rock solid. The body and frame construction is stronger than anything out there and I think I could roll-it-over in a crash, turn it back over, dust it off and ride it home. People do make light of the Lehman when the subject of Pinto parts comes around, but I know the axle and all of it's components are well designed and are based on the Ford 8.8 axle flange and hub. I think it was a wonderful idea to put the thing together with parts that could (to some degree) be found off of many auto parts house or Ford dealer shelves. I will say that it is becoming a bit harder to do, as many parts houses no longer stock the bearings and components from the Fox Bodied Ford era. Advanced, Auto Zone and some others don't and they have to be ordered. I have been all inside every part and component of this drive-line (to include the guts of the differential) and I know it's well built. I will still say that a person should pack a spare set of 207 bearings, especially if they are cross-country travelers like I am. These bearings are manufactured in different grades. Some have metal grease seals and some have plastic grease seals. I would opt for the more expensive ones with the metal seals. As you have stated above, the belt-drive models (Harley) do not take the separate grease seal, but the shaft-drives do.

I just had a bad taste left in my mouth from the Spearfish incident. I was treated like a cheap piece of cheese and I won't back away from that. Maybe we all learn something here.

Thanks again!

 

[Lehman Trikes]

Thanks for the response, it sounds like you've got the right information.

I'm a little confused on the disc brake upgrade as the original Monarch was only available with drums, and the Monarch II only available with disc brakes and we do not offer alternate configurations on these. However, the older GL1500 and some H-D conversions were offered in both configurations in the past. Best to give us a call if I'm misunderstanding something.

I'm pleased to say that a lot has changed since your visit to our factory. For a few years while fullfilling our H-D Tri Glide obligations our sales and main offices were located at another location. Unfortunately the main plant was closed to the public much of the time due to confidentiality restrictions related to our H-D agreement. That does not, however, excuse being treated rudely by anybody in our organization and for that I truly apologize.

Today our sales and customer service staff are located back at the main factory and I am confident that your experience here today would be a very positive one.

 

[1550vt]

First of all....welcome back. It takes a lot of guts for a manufacturer to join-in on these forums and listen to us that think we have been burned for whatever reason and we all appreciate that. Yes....I agree the time I was there in Spearfish was during the early development of the TG and I have heard others report that their experience was nothing like mine. All I can do is tell it like it was and if things had been explained to me a little more clearly and in a polite manner, there would have been no problem. I was almost 2,000 miles from home and I just had the bad luck of bumping into a lady that was having a bad day.

On the brakes. I have a Renegade on a Harley Ultra. It's an early conversion and I do not think Lehman was offering disc brakes at the time. Mine had drums. Anyway, on the Lehman site was a disc brake conversion kit. I contacted more than one dealer and could not get a straight answer as to why they could not be obtained....only that they were not available. The dealers even admitted that the kit was on the site and one dealer called the factory and was only told that they were not available and I would have to purchase a new rear-end for around $4,000, which prompted me to do what all good hot-rodders do....I made my own drum-to-disc conversion. I think I know why they were pulled as a conversion. I am pretty sure no caliper mounting brackets were pictured in the kit....only rotors, lines and calipers. It may very well be this kit was designed for use as an upgrade to existing disc brake equipped kits, but the verbiage on the website specifically stated that it was a conversion kit. Like I have said, one dealer admitted they were there on the site, but could not be had. This is what he was told by a factory rep. and I can only report what I was told.

I have since converted mine and helped a few other guys as well with drum-to-disc conversions (Honda Monarch included). Turned-down 87-88 T-Bird rotors work like a champ. I would be happy to send you the details on what I have done if you'd like to see. It is small, but there is a market out there for a drum-to-disc conversion kit.

Thanks for the response!

 

[dusty74]

Thanks for the response, it sounds like you've got the right information.

I'm a little confused on the disc brake upgrade as the original Monarch was only available with drums, and the Monarch II only available with disc brakes and we do not offer alternate configurations on these. However, the older GL1500 and some H-D conversions were offered in both configurations in the past. Best to give us a call if I'm misunderstanding something.

I'm pleased to say that a lot has changed since your visit to our factory. For a few years while fullfilling our H-D Tri Glide obligations our sales and main offices were located at another location. Unfortunately the main plant was closed to the public much of the time due to confidentiality restrictions related to our H-D agreement. That does not, however, excuse being treated rudely by anybody in our organization and for that I truly apologize.

Today our sales and customer service staff are located back at the main factory and I am confident that your experience here today would be a very positive one.

I have a 2006 GL1800 with Drum and Disc brakes (drum for emergency drum brake)

I am looking for a complete parts list for the Lehman rear end as well as an off the shelf part list is this something you can provide?