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Thread: Why Sena Freewire won’t do Carplay on GTS Radios

  1. #1
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    Default Why Sena Freewire won’t do Carplay on GTS Radios

    The new Harley Boom! GTS Radio in late–model touring bikes is certainly an improvement over the old 6.5 GT unit in previous ones.

    This is the radio in our 2021 Tri Glide Ultra.

    The processor is much faster and the NAV comes online so much quicker.

    It’s even capable of Apple CarPlay IF you use Harley wired headsets.

    Some folks have elected to go with the H-D WHIM and the Harley-branded Sena headsets… I decided to try to integrate our existing SENA 5S headsets by using the Freewire -01 interfaces as we already had the 5S units.

    Some things I’ve discovered:

    Yes, you have to have one Freewire for the rider and a second one for the passenger; each unit is paired to their respective headset (rider or passenger).

    The Sena Bluetooth headsets used with the Freewire must have Bluetooth 4.x or higher (so if you have an old SMH10, etc. you’re out of luck).

    They do support stereo coming out of the GTS radio, and intercom, nav prompts, etc.

    When you plug your iPhone into the USB port in the media bay in the fairing you will only be able to use it as a media device, even if CarPlay is enabled in the phone, and Projection is enabled in the GTS radio.

    Using this setup CarPlay never appears on the radio because it says it doesn’t see a microphone.

    The problem has to do with the microphone impedance that the Freewire unit presents to the GTS audio system; the older radios like the Boom! 6.5 use a higher impedance microphone, where the new system expects to see a low-impedance mic.

    This is why some older Harley wired headsets will not work properly with the new radios.

    There are even CarPlay bypass plugs you can buy on Amazon and eBay; these enable CarPlay by effectively putting a jumper between the mic + and -terminals (typically for the passenger) on the radio… this presents a low impedance path on the microphone circuit and fools the radio into thinking there is a wired headset attached.

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    As you can see, all these bypass plugs do is put in a jumper that shorts out the microphone circuit for the passenger. (pins 2 & 3 on connector 280A… and a dead short is extremely low impedance ��)

    The upside to using the plug is if you never want to use intercom (or plug a passenger headset in - or any headset at all) this will give you CarPlay on the radio.

    You can still use this bypass plug to enable CarPlay if you are using a Freewire for the rider position ONLY and don’t carry a passenger (or don’t care for the passenger talking on the intercom).

    In this scenario with the CarPlay bypass plug installed the passenger will still be able to hear you over the intercom and hear the radio - but not be able to talk because their mic is effectively shorted. Some people that have been married a while might consider this an ‘undocumented feature’ lol.

    I brought this mic impedance problem to the attention of Sena and requested this be added as a feature set for use with the newer radios… this could be implemented on the circuit board itself, or (better yet) with a different 7-pin connection cord that has an impedance matching transformer to give the GTS radio what it’s looking for to enable CarPlay.

    As for me, I will likely run most of the time with two Freewires installed and no bypass plug so my wife can get a word in on the intercom; this will be at the expense of CarPlay functionality.

    I also plan on taking the existing bypass plug I have and actually running the wires back to a switch on the fairing so I can re-enable this feature when I’m riding solo… then I can use Apple Maps or Waze if I desire.
    NRA-Certified Instructor/CRSO
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    Good Job Gregg
    Stallion #406 // 2013 Tri-Glide

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    One other option if you don’t want to buy a CarPlay bypass plug might be this…

    Get a 7-pin DIN plug and jumper pins 1 & 4…then fill up the plug with a potting compound to exclude moisture. Plug this into the headset connector (rider or passenger)…this should do the same thing as the CarPlay bypass plug, again at the expense of intercom/voice command and being ‘switchable’ like my setup.

    Plus you don’t have to remove the fairing…

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    Front and rear headset sockets have the same pinout.
    Last edited by rangemaster728; 09-02-2021 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    I'm unsure if this option is still available as I've seen some postings that it is not. Might be worth a check with your dealership however. On my 2020 using Digital Technician they were able to deselect the CapPlay microphone so the system would not look for a mic in order to access CarPlay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ultrafxr View Post
    I'm unsure if this option is still available as I've seen some postings that it is not. Might be worth a check with your dealership however. On my 2020 using Digital Technician they were able to deselect the CapPlay microphone so the system would not look for a mic in order to access CarPlay.
    I’ve read similar posts…in my case I want the utility of using the onboard intercom/voice commands as well so just turning the mic off in software won’t work for me.

    However - if someone just wants CarPlay, pipes music/NAV prompts thru the speakers and doesn’t care about intercom or voice commands that would be a solution.
    NRA-Certified Instructor/CRSO
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  6. DKCustoms postbit
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    Started some testing last night…

    Since the CarPlay ‘jumper’ being sold various places just shorts pins 1 & 4 on connector 280A under the fairing (which shorts out the passenger mic) I did a measurement.

    With nothing connected (no wired headset or jumper plug) there is approximately 8VDC present between passenger mic + and - terminals. CarPlay is not functional when an iPhone is plugged into the USB Media port.

    Using a resistance decade box on those terminals on 280A I started decreasing the resistance until CarPlay came on…

    While I still have more testing to do it appears that right around 600 ohms this 8VDC falls to about 4V and now CarPlay enables…will test this more this weekend.

    Further decreasing the resistance below 600 ohms CarPlay still works; this is why the ‘jumper’ hack functions as it is 0 ohms.

    It could be the impedance of some Harley wired mics is above this threshold…so no CarPlay.

    The same thing happens with a Sena Freewire-01; likely because the output impedance of the mic circuit of the Freewire is too high.

    I have a Harley wired headset and will do some impedance testing on the bench, along with trying some loading resistors to see if this theory holds water…

    The test consists of playing a 1KHz tone next to the mic and measuring the mic audio amplitude with an oscilloscope; series resistance is then progressively added to the circuit until the amplitude falls to 1/2 the original value.

    The resultant resistance value to get it to fall to this 1/2 value is the approximate impedance of that microphone at that frequency.

    I’m thinking the older Harley headset mics were high impedance, where the new headset mics are lower impedance… and since the Freewire was made to interface with the older Harley radios it would follow they would be a high impedance output as well on the microphone circuit.

    Of course this testing wouldn’t be necessary if Harley was forthcoming about the actual impedance values of the older and newer microphones, but that’s the MoCo for you. I called and asked that specific question but they either didn’t have the information or didn’t want to share it.

    Hopefully I’ll get to more testing this weekend and post the results here.

    The end result here is to get CarPlay to work and still have the functionality of an operable passenger microphone with a Freewire plugged in… The solution might be a Hi-Z to Low-Z impedance transformer in the mic line.

    I’m also in conversations with the SENA technical support people regarding this and they are very interested in the results as well as they do not have the newer GTS radio to test.
    NRA-Certified Instructor/CRSO
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    Default

    I was a little wary of just shorting the pins, so I measured the resistance of two headset mics. One was ~600 ohms and the other 1.6K ohms. I tried a 1K resistor between pins 1&4 and carplay started working. 1.5K worked also. That's as far as I tested because those were the lowest value resistors I had on hand . I bought a 7-pin DIN connector online to try it out. Worked great for Sunday's ride. Nice work @rangemaster728. Thanks for the thorough write-up.

    Take care.

    Quote Originally Posted by rangemaster728 View Post
    Started some testing last night…

    Since the CarPlay ‘jumper’ being sold various places just shorts pins 1 & 4 on connector 280A under the fairing (which shorts out the passenger mic) I did a measurement.

    With nothing connected (no wired headset or jumper plug) there is approximately 8VDC present between passenger mic + and - terminals. CarPlay is not functional when an iPhone is plugged into the USB Media port.

    Using a resistance decade box on those terminals on 280A I started decreasing the resistance until CarPlay came on…

    While I still have more testing to do it appears that right around 600 ohms this 8VDC falls to about 4V and now CarPlay enables…will test this more this weekend.

    Further decreasing the resistance below 600 ohms CarPlay still works; this is why the ‘jumper’ hack functions as it is 0 ohms.

    It could be the impedance of some Harley wired mics is above this threshold…so no CarPlay.

    The same thing happens with a Sena Freewire-01; likely because the output impedance of the mic circuit of the Freewire is too high.

    I have a Harley wired headset and will do some impedance testing on the bench, along with trying some loading resistors to see if this theory holds water…

    The test consists of playing a 1KHz tone next to the mic and measuring the mic audio amplitude with an oscilloscope; series resistance is then progressively added to the circuit until the amplitude falls to 1/2 the original value.

    The resultant resistance value to get it to fall to this 1/2 value is the approximate impedance of that microphone at that frequency.

    I’m thinking the older Harley headset mics were high impedance, where the new headset mics are lower impedance… and since the Freewire was made to interface with the older Harley radios it would follow they would be a high impedance output as well on the microphone circuit.

    Of course this testing wouldn’t be necessary if Harley was forthcoming about the actual impedance values of the older and newer microphones, but that’s the MoCo for you. I called and asked that specific question but they either didn’t have the information or didn’t want to share it.

    Hopefully I’ll get to more testing this weekend and post the results here.

    The end result here is to get CarPlay to work and still have the functionality of an operable passenger microphone with a Freewire plugged in… The solution might be a Hi-Z to Low-Z impedance transformer in the mic line.

    I’m also in conversations with the SENA technical support people regarding this and they are very interested in the results as well as they do not have the newer GTS radio to test.

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