New Brake Shoes Locking Up 2004 Lehman Goldwing

[Ray & Paula]

Got delayed again.... Plus, I've been doing some more digging into the possibility of this issue being the Secondary Master Cylinder (SMC). That, along with the Residual Check Valve & Proportional Control Valve (PCV). I'd like to at least change the check valve due to having to re-bleed everything again but first, I have to figure out how to get at it with both hands. It is made by a company named Wilwood which is stamped on the valve. One thread here in the forum gave the part number 260-3501 along with Lehmans GC6003 (link below). While taking some pic's, I went ahead and took some of my hydraulic lines and labeled them (below). There are areas of the lines that I can't physically see therefore, it could be labeled inaccurately but, I.M.O. it's correct.

Residual Check Valve: https://www.triketalk.com/forum/thre...hman-Monarch-1

Attachment 114835

Attachment 114837



Attachment 114838

[Jack Klarich]

Got delayed again.... Plus, I've been doing some more digging into the possibility of this issue being the Secondary Master Cylinder (SMC). That, along with the Residual Check Valve & Proportional Control Valve (PCV). I'd like to at least change the check valve due to having to re-bleed everything again but first, I have to figure out how to get at it with both hands. It is made by a company named Wilwood which is stamped on the valve. One thread here in the forum gave the part number 260-3501 along with Lehmans GC6003 (link below). While taking some pic's, I went ahead and took some of my hydraulic lines and labeled them (below). There are areas of the lines that I can't physically see therefore, it could be labeled inaccurately but, I.M.O. it's correct.

Residual Check Valve: https://www.triketalk.com/forum/thre...hman-Monarch-1

Attachment 114835

Attachment 114837



Attachment 114838

The residual check valve if bad should lock both rear brakes, however working with the proportioning valve could cause such a problem, also the brakes being linked diagonally ( i am not familiar with the Honda design) could also be a problem?

[Ray & Paula]

The residual check valve if bad should lock both rear brakes, however working with the proportioning valve could cause such a problem, also the brakes being linked diagonally ( i am not familiar with the Honda design) could also be a problem?

Thank You Jack.... I was getting great fluid flow with my prior tests making me believe that it's "not" the check valve. I thought maybe it woukld be a simple fix once I can get both hands on it..... LOL. If the rear MC doesn't do the trick, my biggest lean will be toward the Secondary MC (SMC) especially after reading a few post's on other forums (links below). I'm considering removing it for inspection before re-bleeding this round. There's so many things that it could be linked to..... I'm not going to give up on this until it's figured out. I sincerely appreciate all your help and time throughout this ordeal. Thanks again Jack! Ray

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....-piston-fixed/

https://www.cbrxx.com/threads/second...s-stuck.34538/

[Ray & Paula]

Still testing..... I installed the new rear brake MC last week along with having the drums turned. Upon installation, I bench bled the MC at the banjo bolt exit opening on the bike. I then gently squeezed the hose between the MC and reservoir to remove any trapped air in which there was. I wanted to perform shoe adjustment a little at a time therefore, I followed up by adjusting them with a little drag giving the wheels two and a half revolutions. I proceeded by re-bleeding the interlinked rear brake system. Took about a ten mile easy stop & go ride for some burnishing. Got back and re-adjusted the shoes. Both wheels had free play without drag as expected. This time, I gave them both one and quarter revolutions of drag. Took another test run for about ten miles once again. Seemed to be much better. At this point, we took it out for a couple of days of an easy 500 mile fall ride with a third being E-way.

Current condition; Upon applying the brakes front & rear together, front "or" rear only, the brakes are grabbing with "close" lockup and pulling to the right. Close, meaning that they're touchy enough to lockup with a little more pressure, with the rears being more so. With that being said, after about an hour of not riding, braking holds a straight line but, only with a couple of stops. I'm going to check shoe adjustment once again which may be the issue. If not corrected, I'm going to re-bleed the entire system, front & rear brakes. I don't feel that there's any air in the system but, I'll go through it again. Both reservoirs, front and rear MC's have enough room for fluid expansion. If this doesn't do it, I'll be tempted to replace the secondary MC.... Probably won't be able to re-test until sometime over the weekend due to all the rain here. If you have any other thoughts, by all means "Please" throw them at me. As always, I would appreciate it. Ray

[Ray & Paula]

Got the brakes adjusted but..... I ran into another problem other than brakes. When it rains, it pours! As I was cleaning up the bike from our ride, I found my left exhaust pipe being loose. Pulled the wheel off for further inspection and found Lehman's exhaust pipe rusted off as shown in the pic's below. Thank goodness it rusted off about 3/4" within the Honda oem exhaust pipe.

Created the following thread;

https://www.triketalk.com/forum/thre...593#post945593

[Ray & Paula]

Got the brakes adjusted but..... I ran into another problem other than brakes. When it rains, it pours! As I was cleaning up the bike from our ride, I found my left exhaust pipe being loose. Pulled the wheel off for further inspection and found Lehman's exhaust pipe rusted off as shown in the pic's below. Thank goodness it rusted off about 3/4" within the Honda oem exhaust pipe.

Created the following thread;

https://www.triketalk.com/forum/thre...593#post945593

Exhaust complete!! Now back to my ongoing nightmare........

[Jack Klarich]

Exhaust complete!! Now back to my ongoing nightmare........

Still following

[Ray & Paula]

Still following

Thank you Jack! Very much appreciated!! Ray

[Ray & Paula]

First, I apologize about getting off topic but, I'm sure you understand I had to get the exhaust extensions taken care of before proceeding. Present condition; Upon applying the brakes front & rear together, front "or" rear only, the brakes are grabbing with "close" lockup and pulling to the right. Yesterday, I pulled off the right drum which had lots of brake shoe dust with the front leading shoe showing the most wear. I then proceeded to clean up all the dust and inspected the assembly. Everything was dry including the brake shoe pads. I then followed up by re-adjusting both rear's giving them just a touch of drag. Hopefully, the wear on the leading shoe won't cause a pulling problem in itself. My plan at this point is to re-bleed the entire system front & rear just in case there is air in the system.... I would bet there isn't but, I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway in a different fashion. I've been bleeding the rear starting with the left side then proceeding to the right as usual. This is the recommended procedure by many due to the left being the furthest from the rear MC. Upon looking over Lehman's layout "on mine", the longest brake line run is actually on the right. **Due to the brake lines being buried preceding the swingarm, I believe the following holds true to where they're coming from. The brake line from the rear MC runs over the swingarm centrally with an inline one way flow Self Bleed Check Valve (I believe this is Lehman's installed line). If anyone knows different, please let me know. The other main brake line is coming from the front Secondary MC & Proportional Control Valve which runs side by side at this point with the other. Both main lines run to the rear differential, curving to the left side to a junction block mounted on top of the left rear axle. Exiting the J block are the left & right rear brake lines. The line to the left brake backer plate is only 10" long, the line running to the right side is approx. 36" long..... Hence, the right side being the furthest from the rear MC. After reading other threads about starting on the left through the years, I just followed suit. I would have to say that their J blocks were mounted on the right side unlike mine. With that being said, I have always bled the rears starting on the left side first in the past without incident.

Self Bleed Check Valve: https://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylind...temno=260-3501









Below has been my exact procedure for manually brake bleeding. My Honda Service Manual is quite different. The manual states the following when not using a air bleeder; Pump the brake pedal several (5-10) times quickly, then depress the brake pedal all the way and loosen the bleed valve 1/4 turn. Wait several seconds and close the bleed valve. Release the brake pedal slowly and wait several seconds after it reaches the end of its travel. Then repeat the entire procedure. This procedure must be due to the air bleeding from removing all of the brake fluid out of the system in which I've never done.

I have always manually bled with a single pump at a time due to not wanting to introduce air bubbles by;

1) Loosen Bleeder

2) Press brake pedal down slow & hold down

3) Tighten bleeder

4) Let up on brake

5) Repeat until firm

I now use speed bleeder's which is much faster but, I don't pump the pedal or hand brake fast as Honda states. Maybe I should invest in an air bleeder such as this one for example; https://www.amazon.com/Capri-Tools-V...zcF9hdGY&psc=1

It doesn't appear that moisture from an air compressor would be introduced. I.M.O., it would certainly remove any air that may be in the lines along with being a faster procedure. It should also prove solid fluid pass through of all the lines. Has anyone here gone this route? If so, what's your thoughts and/or recommendations?

As for my procedure, I have always started with the rear MC then to the front MC. Honda Shop Manual doesn't specifically state to start with the front brakes or the rear brakes.

Rear MC:

Rear: Left

Rear: Right

Front: Left Upper

Front: Right Lower

Anti-Dive: Left Lower Fork



Front Brake Lever:

Front: Right Upper

Front: Left Lower

Once I get everything bled, I'll take it for a test run..... providing if the rain here in Michigan ever stops. When done, I'll jack up the rear to see if either side is sticking. If so, I'll quickly loosen it's bleeder screw to see if it frees up before it cools off. I'll report back once I get done with the test. At this point, my gut feeling is it's either the SMC or the Proportional valve. Thanks goes out to all of you for sticking with me through this ordeal! Ray

Now they're predicting snow at the end of the week.

[Jack Klarich]

You have a solid plan, I believe your problem is not air in the system, tho all of this is strange since you had no problem with the braking prior

Never ever pump brakes rapidly and or use long strokes

Pumping rapidly will churn the fluid and cause more bubbles, long strokes can roll the seal in the master causing a leaky master

A vacuum bleeder works good as long as you keep the masters topped off while bleeding

it sounds to me more like there is a linking of the brakes problems