Starter Switch Problems

[msocko3]

Went to take my Triglide for a spin today and was greeted by a surprise. After I backed out of the garage my starter all of a sudden engaged. This very thing has happened twice to my dads 2009 Triglide. He had it happen when it was new, the dealer replaced the start switch and the harness. Then his did it again earlier this month when we were 1,300 miles from home and on our way to Yellowstone, his stranded us in North Platte Nebraska for 3 days over the 4th of July weekend. The dealer their replaced the start switch and the harness once again. Seems when these buggers are subjected to water they don't like it. My dad and I are no strangers to bad weather. Over the years we've ridden through rain, sleet, snow and hail. On our trip to Yellowstone we road through rain on several occasions, some were down pours you could hardly see through complete with wind and plenty of lightning.

I thought I would get lucky and never have the problem, guess my luck just ran out. Right now there are times my trike will start itself up without pushing the start button. The dangerous part of this is it will start in gear and with the clutch out, it doesn't care. If the kill switch is in the run position and I turn the ignition on it has a good chance it will start up and the starter won't quit. I loaded it up and dropped it at the dealer so the waiting game begins. I do know if this bugger does it again and strands me like my dads has, I'll be looking for a Gold Wing Trike.

 

[1550vt]

Hey Mike.....we got through there a little earlier or I would have been around to give you a hand (mostly look and hand you a beer now-and-then). I just go ahead and install the push-button end-cover on all my starters. If I ever have the slightest bit of trouble...I just un-plug the the start-wire off the starter and use the manual button. I have never had one start on it's own, but have had switches, or relays fail.

So....now the self-starting virus has migrated from the reverse motor to the starter motor I guess.

 

[TaylorMcStrat]

That's weird. Is this problem unique to trikes? Unless HD has some trike specific starter, you'd think this type of problem would be seen on EGs and perhaps other touring models.

 

[1550vt]

If a starter relay were to stick closed, or "get sticky" it would try and crank the motor anytime the main switch is turned to run on either a 2 or 3-wheeler, but it won't start if the kill switch is in the off position. Mike is talking about the start switch, which pulls-in the starter-relay. The initial issues were with the TG reverse motors going into reveres on their own, which is about the same thing as a starter-motor. It was in the early models, but the issue Mike mentioned above appears to be something new.

There has not been a history of these problems with the pre-TG bikes....as far as I know. Harley either took some sort of short-cut in the wiring, or some component in the system, such as the switch. I have ran thousands of miles through many rain storms and have never had a pre-TG switch get wet and act-up on any pre-TG machine.

 

[msocko3]

There has not been a history of these problems with the pre-TG bikes....as far as I know. Harley either took some sort of short-cut in the wiring, or some component in the system, such as the switch. I have ran thousands of miles through many rain storms and have never had a pre-TG switch get wet and act-up on any pre-TG machine.

My 06 Ultra or any of my previous HD's never did this either, my 06 has seen plenty of rain. The sad thing is most of the time a dealer doesn't have the parts laying around to fix it so you either wait for them to order the parts or pay them to remove the parts from another bike or trike. Monday morning I'll be on the horn to HD customer service because I leave on a trip Friday morning and I'm not going to be a happy camper if I can't take my trike because there are no parts or I have to pay to have them removed from another bike or trike. I figure one ruined vacation due to a start switch is enough, when the one on my dads 09 Triglide failed a couple weeks ago it cost us our trip to Yellowstone and stranded us for 3 days in Nebraska.

 

[eagle1]

lease keep us posted.i've never had this problem, but my '09 tri-glide has onle been wet a few times, except hand washing. lb

 

[Oldmsocko]

There has not been a history of these problems with the pre-TG bikes....as far as I know. Harley either took some sort of short-cut in the wiring, or some component in the system, such as the switch. I have ran thousands of miles through many rain storms and have never had a pre-TG switch get wet and act-up on any pre-TG machine.

I like you had never had any problems with pre-TG bikes. My o6 Ultra with 30,000 miles on it when I sold it in 08 naver had that problem. I also rode that through many rain storms as well as all of my bikes. They were no strangers to water.I am just wondering if it has anything to do with the wiring and the way they wired the reverse motor?? I quess if you never ride them in the rain or wash them you will be OK.

One thing for sure if it strands me one more time with that problem it will be sold and I will be buying a Gold Wing Trike. In 09 shortly after I bought it I had just returned from Gatlinburg when it happened the first time. My bride and I had rode through some heavy rain.

 

[1550vt]

Mike and Mike.....boys....I really hate to hear your trip got fouled-up. As we had discussed, me and my bunch were in through all the places you guys had planned to go and had a ball. We even stayed in North Platte one night.

I know this may sound like a "rigging", but it's not. If you need the machine to make a trip....all you have to do is purchase one of those $20 push-button starter end-covers (off e-bay or some other place) and it takes ALL the switch wiring out of the loop. Just turn the main switch to run, have the kill switch in the run position and push the button on the end of the starter....she will fire right up. Simply un-plug the small connector on the starter that runs to the starter relay and you take all the other stuff out of the loop.

3-screws and 30-minutes will give you this back-up. That button will physically push the jack-shaft against the ring-gear and connect main battery power to the starter. Some custom bikes don't even have a handlebar starter switch or starter relay. If you have to....just disable the other crap in the circuit and ride.

Sell that thing and buy my older low-mileage Lehman kitted trike. It's solid as a dollar (gold dollar) and I am trying to give it away. These folks paying 30K-plus for a TG just don't realize what they are getting into. I would have one myself, but I was a forum subscriber before I had the TG bug and I let the TG owners talk me out of one.

Good luck buddies!

 

[Oldmsocko]

Mike and Mike.....boys....I really hate to hear your trip got fouled-up. As we had discussed, me and my bunch were in through all the places you guys had planned to go and had a ball. We even stayed in North Platte one night.

I know this may sound like a "rigging", but it's not. If you need the machine to make a trip....all you have to do is purchase one of those $20 push-button starter end-covers (off e-bay or some other place) and it takes ALL the switch wiring out of the loop. Just turn the main switch to run, have the kill switch in the run position and push the button on the end of the starter....she will fire right up. Simply un-plug the small connector on the starter that runs to the starter relay and you take all the other stuff out of the loop.

3-screws and 30-minutes will give you this back-up. That button will physically push the jack-shaft against the ring-gear and connect main battery power to the starter. Some custom bikes don't even have a handlebar starter switch or starter relay. If you have to....just disable the other crap in the circuit and ride.

Sell that thing and buy my older low-mileage Lehman kitted trike. It's solid as a dollar (gold dollar) and I am trying to give it away. These folks paying 30K-plus for a TG just don't realize what they are getting into. I would have one myself, but I was a forum subscriber before I had the TG bug and I let the TG owners talk me out of one.

Good luck buddies!

Thank you for your well wishes. I really love my TG and I finally got it where I want it but it will only strand me one more time.

 

[1550vt]

Well....you boys know that I am an amateur rocket scientist...let me know if I can help..

Bear Tooth was gorgeous. 7 and 8 foot snow-drifts and it actually snowed on us up there. It was like driving through a carved-out snow canyon, which I suppose that is what it really was.

Good Luck!

 

[msocko3]

Sell that thing and buy my older low-mileage Lehman kitted trike. It's solid as a dollar (gold dollar) and I am trying to give it away. These folks paying 30K-plus for a TG just don't realize what they are getting into. I would have one myself, but I was a forum subscriber before I had the TG bug and I let the TG owners talk me out of one.

Good luck buddies!

Before I took delivery of my Triglide I had 2 trains of thought. The 1st was I had located a very low mileage 06 Ultra which I thought about buying and triking, I figured I liked my present 06 Ultra may as well have a 2nd. My 2nd thought was buying a new Goldwing and riding it 2 wheels for a year to make sure there was no issues and then having it triked. In the end I went with the Triglide. I've spent lots of bucks and time making it what it should have been from the factory so I'm reluctant to part with it. But as I said let it burn me again and I'll have to move on because I want reliability which I'm starting to feel HD isn't capable of with their present train of thought, they want to build pretty garage jewelry vs something that gets it done reliably. I may do the starter mod you suggested just to make sure I don't get stranded by the same thing again.

 

[1550vt]

I hear you pal. That little starter button thingy has gotten more than one rider out of a jam.

Those of us old enough to remember....remember the year the MOCO dropped the kick-start. Pure terror set-in for a while until we got over it. The button isn't exactly a kick-start, but if you have a good battery and a good starter....it will get you cranked.

 

[Oldmsocko]

Well....you boys know that I am an amateur rocket scientist...let me know if I can help..

Bear Tooth was gorgeous. 7 and 8 foot snow-drifts and it actually snowed on us up there. It was like driving through a carved-out snow canyon, which I suppose that is what it really was.

Good Luck!

Man your making me jealous. That is one of the areas we had on our agenda.

 

[1550vt]

Want some pictures????

I'll rub it in and kick you while I have you down.

 

[pettifogger1]

Mike and Mike.....boys....I really hate to hear your trip got fouled-up. As we had discussed, me and my bunch were in through all the places you guys had planned to go and had a ball. We even stayed in North Platte one night.

I know this may sound like a "rigging", but it's not. If you need the machine to make a trip....all you have to do is purchase one of those $20 push-button starter end-covers (off e-bay or some other place) and it takes ALL the switch wiring out of the loop. Just turn the main switch to run, have the kill switch in the run position and push the button on the end of the starter....she will fire right up. Simply un-plug the small connector on the starter that runs to the starter relay and you take all the other stuff out of the loop.

3-screws and 30-minutes will give you this back-up. That button will physically push the jack-shaft against the ring-gear and connect main battery power to the starter. Some custom bikes don't even have a handlebar starter switch or starter relay. If you have to....just disable the other crap in the circuit and ride.

Sell that thing and buy my older low-mileage Lehman kitted trike. It's solid as a dollar (gold dollar) and I am trying to give it away. These folks paying 30K-plus for a TG just don't realize what they are getting into. I would have one myself, but I was a forum subscriber before I had the TG bug and I let the TG owners talk me out of one.

Good luck buddies!

Have you got a brand name, part number or something else that might help locating this on E-bay. Sounds like something that might be good insurance.

 

[Bruce]

don't know if I can say this or not on the site but I got mine from Samspowersports on ebay. i think it was about $13- with free shipping

 

[1550vt]

Bruce has the answer. They can be had from many different locations and some are more expensive than others. Some are billet and some are just chrome....ALL of them work. You can probably get one with a skull or something on it if you want to pay more.
Just Google-up "Harley starter push button" or something like that and you will find one.

Simple to install....take the round chrome cover off the motor and replace the black solenoid end-cap with one of these and then put the round cover back over the motor. Take the battery cable loose just for insurance if you want to. Otherwise, you don't even have to remove the seat. It will be a great opportunity to check the condition of the plunger and contacts while your in there.

I have seen guys "home-make" these by drilling a hole in that stock black cover and putting a long screw in the hole......pretty stupid, but if you don't have 15-bucks....a man does what a man has to do (or woman).

If your switch goes bad, or your wiring harness gets crushed, or your starter relay fails...THIS WORKS. I use it just for fun all the time. And, if your wiring gets shorted out like #3's did....just unplug the little connector on the starter housing and it won't try and self-start.

Some of these covers come with the chrome screws and some don't and some come with the wrong threads on the screws. I just go down to the nut-n-bolt house and get some metric socket-head stainless steel screws. Or...just stick the black ones back in.

 

[MontgomeryLittle]

I'm sorry to hear of the issues ya'll have had with starters and or switches. And it scares me to know that my wife has a 2011 Tri Glide and could have this happen to her.
Her Tri Glide has 2,400 miles on it now. I put about 700 of those on it. Maybe you can see where I'm going with this and her lack of riding time. She has about 100 miles on 2 wheels, guessing 200 on a 4 wheeler. I'm not sure what her reaction to this starter issue might be. Hopefully smart. She did pretty good with a maladjusted clutch cable that I'll post about later.
At least now I know how to get around it easily. I'm thinking of getting two of those starter push buttons, one for the Tri Glide and one for my Police bike. Wonder if they got one to fit a 1971 Electra Glide? They left the kicker off of it too.

 

[1550vt]

I have not heard much about any reverse motors self-engaging on the newer models. I think they (possibly) cured that problem. Actually, I had not heard of the problem of "self-starting" until I read this thread started by Mike, but it can easily happen if the right contacts get wet, or some wires get crushed together. Having this manual button will only solve the problem if the starter wiring circuit is OPEN and not SHORTED.

However, if this situation were to occur, all one would have to do is disable the starting circuit by unplugging the connector (small wire) on the starter solenoid and then could crank the bike with the button. You could also pull the right fuse, or the starter-relay, but that would take time.

I would think that if the starter self-engaged while going down the road, it would shear the teeth on the starter jack-shaft, or the clutch-basket ring gear. I tend to think that it would only "try", but would not mesh until one slowed down to a speed that would let the teeth mesh....then all you can do is cut the power with the main ignition switch, clutch the bike and coast to a safe stop. Then....reach down and pull that small connector off the starter, which will kill the starting circuit. Then use the button to re-start the trike.

A fuse may very well get blown along the way somewhere here also, but that would be a minor issue. At least....one could crank it and get it home.

I think the MOCO started using the self-contained solenoid in the late 80's. Up to that point, the solenoid was remotely mounted and this button will not apply to the remotely mounted solenoids.

I would try to explain to my wife that if she thought she heard this, or detected it....clutch the trike, turn the ignition switch to the off position and cost it down. For goodness sake....make sure she does not switch it to the lock position....only the off position.

 

[MontgomeryLittle]

1550vt,
Thanks for your reply.
I understand to unplug the wire to disable the starting circuit. My 1995 FLSTC has the same set up as the newer bikes. My 1983 XLX has the same starter motor (the end covers look the same) but the solenoid is different, as well as the fact the swtch wires are bolted on. Not the plastic plug. And yes the 1971 Electra Glide has a remote solenoid.
I just think this is cheap insurance if you lose anything from the solenoid up.

Also with all the rain talk it made me worry. We chased rain clouds to Barber Motorsports Museum in Leeds, Alabama the weekend of 7/16. It rained on our bikes all night at the motel and we chased clouds all the way back home the next morning.
I never run my pursuit lamps, unless it rains. It rained on me again last week parked at work and coming home. I lost the pursuit lamps and brake lights with a blown fuse on the way home from work. Imagine that, they are on the same circuit. A new 10 amp fuse fixed it so far just not sure of a root cause. Hoping it was water.

msocko3,
I hope you get this sorted out and sorry to stink up your post.