OMG - suing Harley for engine heat!

[Maria]

Ok, they are hot. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I feel like I hafta quote Homer Simpson: DUH. Internal combustion, that's like fire, it's hot....
Anyway, now there is apparently a group suing Harley because the engine is hot. Here is the link to an article on an HD forum.

Things Getting Hot for Harley-Davidson's Air-Cooled Engines - HDForums.com Harley Davidson Forums

I am going to refrain from any comment at all about the legal part.

But I am wondering exactly what anyone proposes in connection with the comment that it is possible that "other sympathetic judges may determine that such high operating temperatures are in fact design defects and hence affect not only future engine production, but retroactively demand updates to existing H-Ds via mandatory recalls." What exactly would they propose as a "retroactive update"???

[Bikerbozo]

"Air Cooled". If you aren't moving, you aren't getting air flow and an engine will get hot. It's not rocket science (OK, maybe a little). Nobody is forced to buy an H-D. I expect heat from mine and ignore it. These people could have gotten Saki Suckers that would be nice and cool (I wouldn't be suprised to learn that Gold Wings have A/C by now).

I would have to say a lawsuit like this will never be won. All it will succeed in doing is raising the prices even more to make up for the cost of lawyers.

[VaThumper]

Having ridden Harleys for a long time I have to agree that they are running way hotter than ever before but even if they burn the hair off of the twins I will still find a way to ride them. Also I have ridden most of the Rice Burners of our time and they are great but why do you think we are in the dire straights we are in in the economy Dah buy american dumb bells

[msocko3]

Harley has been making them run hotter to meet the strict EPA requirements, how long will they be able to keep the TC engine as it is will be seen as time goes by. I can say my 05 and my 06 Electraglides never run as hot as the 07 on up does. When the 07's came out with the 96" and 6 speed I thought about getting rid of my 06 Ultra for a 07 Ultra until I road one, wow holy toaster oven batman. I took a demo 07 Ulltra for a 150 mile ride with a mix of freeway and city driving. The 1st long stop light I was caught at I felt like I was riding the sun, that bugger was hotter than I cared for, my 06 was like riding an ice cube compared to the 07.

When my dad bought his 09 Triglide I put some miles on it to get used to a trike before my 2010 Triglide came in. His 09 was warmer than my 06 Ultra but I felt I could get used to that, it wasn't terrible. Was I in for a shock with the 2010 Triglide, it was hot, I mean I was one unhappy camper on how hot it road not to mention it had less power than my dads 09. When I would ride one then switch to the other it was night and day different. I made several calls to Harley customer service and talked to the service manager at the dealer. Harley said it was running within design limits and the service manager would only shrug his shoulders. In the end I took matters into my own hands and now I have what it should have been from the factory, much cooler and plenty of power.

[Greydog]

Don't know that a lawsuit is the answer to the hot engines but......when I bought my '08 Ultra I was super disappointed with the heat issue on a $23,000 motorcycle that was supposed to be the top of the line model offering. I never had that problem with my Heritage and expected even more riding comfort with the Ultra. Maybe I'm selfish but I would not mind at all recovering a portion of the "Harley Tax" I spent in an effort to cool it down. When I rode in The Run For The Wall last year a little Senior Citizen lady, who joined the group in Missouri, had a very bad burn on her right thigh from engine heat and had to drop out at the stop in Charleston, WV.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is, if we as riders can find a way to cool the motorcycle down, why didn't the MOCO do it at the factory and raise the price accordingly? It would have still have been more cost effective for the purchaser. Basically HD sold us a hot motorcycle and then sold us the parts to cool it down thereby making money on both ends!!

[skuuter]

With lotsa' stringent EPA/DOT Regulations right around the corner, the Harleys are gonna' hafta' go to water cooling at some point...like it or not, it's coming....Yes, I've owned several Harleys, and most every other Brand also at some point. Water Cooling definetly has many advantages over air cooling...Engine longevity and consistancy being two very important ones.....

[Blondie Gal]

Why don't they just wise up (like we did) and get a Goldwing?

[Pittsburgh Biker]

Seems like a simple engineering thing to have a blower that moves the heat during a stop and for HD to develop a cooler running oil.

[1550vt]

Like I said on the other thread here in the forum....I think the buying public will eventually make the decision on what the MOCO does with these toaster-ovens. People like Blondie already have. They are just trying to hang onto the buyers that want the pushrod air-cooled motor. Sooner or later, they are going to have to make the leap on their own or by some external force.....like the customers. They have a proven water-cooled mil in the V-Rod so the ice has already been broken. They just need to get on with it. Then all the late model air-cooled toaster-ovens will either be dinosaurs....or collectors items.

[Pittsburgh Biker]

Why don't they just wise up (like we did) and get a Goldwing?

Only because the Goldwing is not a Harley.

[skuuter]

I'm a really big fan of the "Harley-Looking-Engine"...especially knuckleheads, and the 60s Era Shovelheads, but as the "Classic H-D Market" gets grayer, and longer in tooth, I've always been worried that H-D will wait too long to transition to a New Water Cooled Look and let the Public be "adjusting" to it. The Younger Buying Public may turn Their back on Harley totally before They tap into the Market that's there and developing.....I hope Harley Davidson never goes the way of Others that waited too long to "change"...BSA, Norton, Indian, on and on.....

[NedKelley]

+1 You just know it's a Hog if you smell something roasting!!!

[msocko3]

I'm a really big fan of the "Harley-Looking-Engine"...especially knuckleheads, and the 60s Era Shovelheads, but as the "Classic H-D Market" gets grayer, and longer in tooth, I've always been worried that H-D will wait too long to transition to a New Water Cooled Look and let the Public be "adjusting" to it. The Younger Buying Public may turn Their back on Harley totally before They tap into the Market that's there and developing.....I hope Harley Davidson never goes the way of Others that waited too long to "change"...BSA, Norton, Indian, on and on.....

Right now Harley seems to think marketing tough looking cloths and strange bike styling combinations to the younger crowd will keep them in tall clover. I agree with you, they better start getting with the new technology or they may be on a fast track to board the same ship as Indian.

[lzski326]

I don't understand why they can't just put a small radiator in between the lowers and just water cool the heads. That way they could keep the same engine configuration, looks and sound. just my two cents.

[1550vt]

I have actually had the same thought, but I think I can tell you why....Willie G. DOES NOT want a radiator. If you have ever seen the special on TV concerning the development of the V-Rod....the biggest issue they had was trying to get a workable radiator that would look like it was not a radiator to please Willie G.

[msocko3]

I have actually had the same thought, but I think I can tell you why....Willie G. DOES NOT want a radiator. If you have ever seen the special on TV concerning the development of the V-Rod....the biggest issue they had was trying to get a workable radiator that would look like it was not a radiator to please Willie G.

Sometimes I would love to feed Willie G. his goofy looking hat. Never know he may just be the man who kills the brand due to his constantly worrying about making it look old or not like it what it is. Granted you don't want to see something that looks like a wart bolted to the front but there is ways to work it in and make it look decent.

[10rhrk]

Why don't they just wise up (like we did) and get a Goldwing?

So, what are you saying, we are not wise if we buy a Harley? I like to support American company's if I can. I think it's a personal thing with the heat. How and where you ride! I've got 1K miles on our 2012 Triglide and loving it more every ride. It has all the power I need. I'm not racing anymore. It will reach the speed limit on any road pretty quick.

I haven't heard this mentioned on the forum, but I was told by a Regional Manager that HD volunteered for the new EPA guidelines to put pressure on the competitors. The other brands have their problems too! I heard Honda bailed out on a lawsuit?????

[Papa Zook]

It all boils down to meeting EPA requirements. Harley is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Im afraid our dumbass legislators will wind up putting Harley-Davidson, Gibson Guitars and many others out of business if something doesn't change.