Brake Light Problem

[Greydog]

Had an oil cooler installed on my '08 Ultra/Champion Saturday at my dealer. Did my pre-ride check today and discovered my brake lights aren't working. Running lights OK. Checked brake fuse and it's good. I pulled the cover off the left light and disconnected the lamp pigtail. On the male plug side there are three pins, two close together and one spaced slightly apart from them. I figured one of the two that are close together powers the running lights and the other is powered when the brakes are applied. I guessed the other pin is a ground or return?? I found that both pins had approx 12 volts on them when the ignition switch is on and the brake fuse removed. That sort of eliminates a stuck brake switch.

Does anyone know how those pins are fed? If my assumption is correct the running light ckt is shorted to my brake lights somewhere in the harness and the brake lights are on all the time. I have no wiring diagram so I'm flying sort of blind. I don't think there is anything up near the oil cooler that would cause this but the problem didn't appear until after the cooler was installed. I disconnected the plug that powers the lights on the trike box and the brake lights on the tour pac still didn't work but the running lights did so I'm assuming the problem is somewhere forward of the trike box. Any ideas?? Anyone have a wiring diagram??

 

[1550vt]

Sure sounds like a stuck brake light switch...either front or rear, but you said you pulled the fuse. Just to be sure...unplug one lead off the rear brake light switch to positively eliminate that. To eliminate the front switch, you pretty much have to remove the brake-side perch and see if the button is being completely compressed when the lever is released. Harley has had a history of problems with the front switch.

I don't think they have changed the wiring a great deal over the years and I will go look at some diagrams I have that could possibly be of some help.

 

[1550vt]

I took a look at some of the drawings I have, but I don't have anything "recent". On some models, they use a stop-light relay, which could be stuck, but if you have pulled the right fuse...it should have taken all that out of the circuit. The diagrams I have show the brake lights being feed from the ACC fuse and they do not have a specific "brake light" fuse.

 

[Greydog]

After further checking I found that the brake lights are not on all the time. I pulled the lamp from the housing and only the running light filaments are lit. Neither the front brake nor the rear will operate the brake lights. Gotta find a diagram as I'm really sort of looking for Easter Eggs without it. If there is a stop light relay it could have failed.

 

[trikermutha]

I wonder if you have a rear tailight converter like the tri glides? mine is under my seat under the left side of the seat frame.

hope that helps some what..

 

[Greydog]

Gonna try to get an appt at the dealer tomorrow. Checked my diagnostic codes and have a "front brake open" code and a "rear brake low" code. I figure one of those switches is bad so I'll let the pro's sort it out.

 

[bluesuedeshoes]

It's shouldn't be this, since your front and rear switches are in parallel to your brake relay, but did you check the connector or wiring to the rear brake switch at the pedal? I'm assuming your oil cooler was installed at that location? Maybe something got pinched, disconnected?

 

[bluesuedeshoes]

You also mentioned pulling the brake fuse, but that controls the power that illuminates the brake lights. The brake relay power is controlled by the accessories fuse. Have you checked that fuse?

 

[Greydog]

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<img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>bluesuedeshoes</strong>
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<div class="message">It's shouldn't be this, since your front and rear switches are in parallel to your brake relay, but did you check the connector or wiring to the rear brake switch at the pedal? I'm assuming your oil cooler was installed at that location? Maybe something got pinched, disconnected?</div>

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</div>Had a couple problems that caused the codes. Brake fluid level for rear brakes was low. Added fluid and eliminated that one. When I was checking the voltage to the brake lights I blew the brake fuse. Not knowing better I swapped the Acc. fuse for the brake fuse which disabled the brake relay.....thus no brake lights!! Got new fuses today and lo and behold my brake lights are on all the time!! I think the problem is in the front brake lever switch.

Got an appt. Saturday at the dealer.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

While you are waiting... check the separated pin, that would be your ground. See if it is actually grounded via a continuity check. Conversions normally ground the rear lights to the frame just behind the rear bumper. A star washer should be used to make good connection to the frame.

Just a thought...

 

[Greydog]

While you are waiting... check the separated pin, that would be your ground. See if it is actually grounded via a continuity check. Conversions normally ground the rear lights to the frame just behind the rear bumper. A star washer should be used to make good connection to the frame.

Just a thought...

Thanx Wiz. Grounds are good.....but while I was checking that I noticed the plastic 3157 lamp bases were burned and the lamps would not pull from their bases. I disconnected the pigtails and did continuity checks and found that the brake and running lights on the right side are shorted together inside the lamp base. They have always been "hot" and have melted spots in both lenses. Called Champion and asked about new pigtails and found that they have been modified since I bought my kit and now incorporate some sort of relay. They cost 60 bucks each but my trike is still under warranty so I get them free. Also sending me new lenses under warranty. Gonna put LEDs in them when they arrive!!!

 

[1550vt]

I believe I have ran across another thread either here on the forum, or a "competitors forum" concerning this very issue on the Champion kits.

The LED conversion lamps may require a load equalizer. They never would work in mine and I don't like hanging extra junk (especially electrical) on my rides.

 

[Greydog]

I believe I have ran across another thread either here on the forum, or a "competitors forum" concerning this very issue on the Champion kits.

The LED conversion lamps may require a load equalizer. They never would work in mine and I don't like hanging extra junk (especially electrical) on my rides.

I think the LED's only need an equalizer if they are used for turn signal lamps. They don't draw enough current to operate the flasher. They will actually be brighter and put less load on my electrical system than filament lamps.

 

[Greydog]

Located the problem before taking it to the dealer. Pulled the connector off one side of the rear brake switch and found it was shorted. Left it disconnected so my front brake would operate the brake lights and took it to the dealer. Easy fix...took about 20 minutes and a $12.00 switch. Got my new lens' and LEDs on there now and all is well. I really feel ignorant for not locating that problem right away. I was an Electronics Technician in the Navy for 22 years and and worked in the electrical field for another 20!! Must be gettin' old!!! :Shrug: