Fork Seal leaking again HELP

[RUMRUNR]

Great day for a ride here in Kansas, I did about 300 miles.

Bad thing is when I get home there is fork oil up by the bars, on the left fork and running off the left front caliper. I had the fork seals replaced by a Honda dealer about 900 miles ago when I did the rake kit. What is up, did they botch the job?

Does it have anything to do with the anti-dive on the left fork?

Thanks in advance to any help.

 

[mhgoldwing]

I believe I would ask the dealer that very question. See if you can get them to fix after "only 900 miles".

If the anti-dive valve is locked up it could cause a leak by blowing oil by the seal due to increased pressure when a bump was hit. If the AD was faulty though I think you would have noticed the harsh ride.

If you can, raise the bike up by lifting under the engine and take a look at the fork and see if you can discover any vertical scratches, dings, etc. that might be the cause of a leak.

You could also use some 35mm film or the seal saver tool(?) to clean debris from between the seal and fork tube.

 

[cjmitch]

its not the seals that are broken....

Either your ADV in the bottom of your left fork is stuck closed,

or your ADV actuator is stuck keeping you ADV closed,

or you secondary master cylinder is stuck causing the ADV actuator to be stuck, causing you ADV to be stuck

ADV = Anti-dive valve

REPEATED failures of blown left fork seals are almost always due to one of these being he problem.

 

[tfdeputydawg]

Great day for a ride here in Kansas, I did about 300 miles.

Bad thing is when I get home there is fork oil up by the bars, on the left fork and running off the left front caliper. I had the fork seals replaced by a Honda dealer about 900 miles ago when I did the rake kit. What is up, did they botch the job?

Does it have anything to do with the anti-dive on the left fork?

Thanks in advance to any help.

That's your clue! Check your fork caps!!!!

I to was told both my fork seals were leaking, by a dealer that did my brake recall. I checked and found both fork caps had bad O-rings.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Usually a fork seal does not like that far up, so I would inspect the fork cap/seal too. They will leak from the top down. To know, look for fork oil on the fork tube under the top-bridge of the triple tree. If there is oil there, loosen the upper pinch bolt and check that the cap is tight. Torque is 15 ft/lbs. If you choose to remove it to inspect the o-ring for the fork cap, be careful. All have some spring pressure pushing up on the cap, and some will have a lot. Be sure the front wheel is off the ground. Usually the upper pinch bolt is tightened to 19 ft/lbs, however, it is best to know the maker of the triple-tree and consult their installation literature in case they want their pinch bolt torqued tighter. Whatever you find, the fluid level in the fork will need rechecked and the area cleaned. If fluid is on the brake pads, those will at least need cleaned and possibly replaced.

 

[trike tech]

^^^ that. I'd also take a look at the o-ring on the fork cap. I've seen many of them that get "cut" when someone is re-installing the caps & not notice it. Granted, if that's the case you should see oil on the lower triple tree too.

 

[RUMRUNR]

^^^ that. I'd also take a look at the o-ring on the fork cap. I've seen many of them that get "cut" when someone is re-installing the caps & not notice it. Granted, if that's the case you should see oil on the lower triple tree too.

Thanks all for the input, I will check all of the above tonight and see what I find.

I had to walk away from it this weekend, hate to work on things when I am frustrated.

 

[FRR]

Also, wipe your forks off often. Most don't do that and if you don't problems may occur.

 

[RUMRUNR]

Thanks all for the input, I will check all of the above tonight and see what I find.

I had to walk away from it this weekend, hate to work on things when I am frustrated.

I got a little time this evening to start digging, long story short when I raised the left fork dust seal up fork oil ran out. So lot's of fork oil on top of the seal. I guess I will get started this weekend doing the seals and figure out what to do with the ADV. I was thinking of going with a shim under the ADV and see if it will quite blowing out fork oil.

 

[Gold Rush]

I got a little time this evening to start digging, long story short when I raised the left fork dust seal up fork oil ran out. So lot's of fork oil on top of the seal. I guess I will get started this weekend doing the seals and figure out what to do with the ADV. I was thinking of going with a shim under the ADV and see if it will quite blowing out fork oil.

When I converted my 2015 a couple years ago, Roadsmith had me install this bracket to disable the anti dive function. You will have to buy or make you own spacer and buy and new bolt for the bottom anchoring point but it will keep the anti dive from functioning and that is the point. The strap itself it about an inch wide and 1/8 inch thick.

 

[RUMRUNR]

When I converted my 2015 a couple years ago, Roadsmith had me install this bracket to disable the anti dive function. You will have to buy or make you own spacer and buy and new bolt for the bottom anchoring point but it will keep the anti dive from functioning and that is the point. The strap itself it about an inch wide and 1/8 inch thick.

View attachment 47466

Interesting, I have not seen this method in any of my online research, just seen the shim under the ADV and a shim on top of the ADV to reduce the pre-load. This must work since you still have it in place, any adverse affects? Anybody else out there using this method?

 

[Gold Rush]

Interesting, I have not seen this method in any of my online research, just seen the shim under the ADV and a shim on top of the ADV to reduce the pre-load. This must work since you still have it in place, any adverse affects? Anybody else out there using this method?

I've got nearly 25,000 miles on my 2015 and not a single issue with the front suspension. This is a Roadsmith modification done to the HTS1800 conversion kit. I imagine they do it to all GL1800 kits so there should be MANY of them on the road. Unless the rider did his own conversion as I did or at least does he own maintenance I'd bet he'd never know the mod was done.

What this strap does it total stop the ADV from operating. With all the trike weight on the front suspension it is already pretty well compressed so there isn't any dive happening.... Hense, no need for ADV function.

 

[RUMRUNR]

I've got nearly 25,000 miles on my 2015 and not a single issue with the front suspension. This is a Roadsmith modification done to the HTS1800 conversion kit. I imagine they do it to all GL1800 kits so there should be MANY of them on the road. Unless the rider did his own conversion as I did or at least does he own maintenance I'd bet he'd never know the mod was done.

What this strap does it total stop the ADV from operating. With all the trike weight on the front suspension it is already pretty well compressed so there isn't any dive happening.... Hense, no need for ADV function.

I get it now, after looking at mine I see what the strap is doing, it keeps the caliper from pivoting up and engaging it ADV.

Thanks for the picture, it really helped.

 

[mhgoldwing]

I get it now, after looking at mine I see what the strap is doing, it keeps the caliper from pivoting up and engaging it ADV.

Thanks for the picture, it really helped.

It appears to me this serves two functions:

1. Disables the ADV

2. Disables the linked brakes to rear wheels. (This leaves intact the fact that the rear brake pedal engages the front, but disables the front brake to rear wheel connection.)

 

[RUMRUNR]

It appears to me this serves two functions:

1. Disables the ADV

2. Disables the linked brakes to rear wheels. (This leaves intact the fact that the rear brake pedal engages the front, but disables the front brake to rear wheel connection.)

I have attached pictures of my version of the ADV disable. Completed the project yesterday along with putting the rebuilt LH fork back on and cleaning all the associated tupperware. Shawnee Cycle stepped up and replaced the seal at no cost to me.

I put about 180 miles on the trike today, no leaks and no issues with the disabled ADV. The front forks do compress some under panic stop mode, but at no time did it feel any different than any other bike without anti-dive. Bonus is the ride is better. Thanks to all that helped with answers along the way.

 

[Gold Rush]

Pretty nifty adaptation of the Roadsmith design !! :xszpv: :xszpv:

Just a word of caution (more because I don't know and would hate for a suggestion of mine to be the cause of problems for you later on). You might want to check the bends on that brace every once in a while to see if there is any movement. If you see even the slightest bit I'd go back to an exact duplicate of the Roadsmith one..

 

[RUMRUNR]

Pretty nifty adaptation of the Roadsmith design !! :xszpv: :xszpv:

Just a word of caution (more because I don't know and would hate for a suggestion of mine to be the cause of problems for you later on). You might want to check the bends on that brace every once in a while to see if there is any movement. If you see even the slightest bit I'd go back to an exact duplicate of the Roadsmith one..

I hold no one responsible for for what I do:xzqxz: I hammered on the brakes today, took it apart this evening to check for any bends, cracks or deformation of the strap. All looked good. I will continue to check it from time to time.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

After your modification, how are your brakes ??? Your modification now keeps the secondary m/c from being raised while braking and could cause poor braking ... test ride it with caution.

On a 2whl Wing, each caliper has 3 pistons. A top, middle, and bottom. When the front brake lever is applied, the LF middle piston is activated, and the top and bottom pistons of the RF. If the front brake is activated hard enough, the secondary m/c begins to lift and then begins to activate the ADV, and the upper and lower pistons in the rear caliper.

When the rear peddle is pushed, the upper and lower pistons are activated in the LF caliper. The center piston in the RF caliper, and the center piston in the rear caliper. Because 2 pistons are activated in the LF caliper, the secondary m/c will begin to rise and activate the ADV and the other 2 pistons in the rear caliper.



Most trikes have some sort of modification in the way they link front and rear brakes. I'd recommend calling RS to see how your modification affects your brakes.

 

[RUMRUNR]

After your modification, how are your brakes ??? Your modification now keeps the secondary m/c from being raised while braking and could cause poor braking ... test ride it with caution.

On a 2whl Wing, each caliper has 3 pistons. A top, middle, and bottom. When the front brake lever is applied, the LF middle piston is activated, and the top and bottom pistons of the RF. If the front brake is activated hard enough, the secondary m/c begins to lift and then begins to activate the ADV, and the upper and lower pistons in the rear caliper.

When the rear peddle is pushed, the upper and lower pistons are activated in the LF caliper. The center piston in the RF caliper, and the center piston in the rear caliper. Because 2 pistons are activated in the LF caliper, the secondary m/c will begin to rise and activate the ADV and the other 2 pistons in the rear caliper.

View attachment 47633

Most trikes have some sort of modification in the way they link front and rear brakes. I'd recommend calling RS to see how your modification affects your brakes.

Greg,

Thanks for posting the diagram and text, this helps me understand better how it functions. My trike is not RS, it is a Champion kit. I bought it already triked but have the conversion paperwork and will check to see what modifications were done to the brake system when triked. I am not a real fan of modifying what Honda has engineered but the facts are I am tired of putting seals in the LH fork and cleaning oil off and out of every orfice on the left side. There may be another cure for the seal failure problem which I think is created by the ADV. I am not a Honda mechanic but I believe you are, if I was in Florida I would have my trike in your shop. I would be interested in your take on the problem and what you think the cure would be. I digress, the braking seems to be the same now as before I made the modification. The ADV is disabled so the front forks do compress more but now my windshield does not rattle for 15 minutes after braking and the forks actually work instead of jarring my teeth.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Greg,

Thanks for posting the diagram and text, this helps me understand better how it functions. ... I am not a Honda mechanic but I believe you are, if I was in Florida I would have my trike in your shop. ... I would be interested in your take on the problem and what you think the cure would be. I

You're welcome.

I have a shop that's probably the most specialized GoldWing shop in the world. Other shops work on anything that comes in the door (any make, any model), and some may specialize only in GoldWings (one brand, one model, any generation), but I only specialize in GL1800s (one brand, one model, one generation). If it is not a GL1800s, I turn all other work away.

Your Champion has a separated braking system. Your rear peddle only activates your rear calipers, and your front lever only activates your front calipers. Both front calipers only use the upper and lower pistons. Your center pistons are disabled. As the LF caliper is applied, the raising of your secondary m/c activates your ADV (anti dive valve).

As for its repair, your ADV needs replaced. The engineers that designed the working components of your trike kit intended that you have a working ADV, not one that is disabled. Some trikes manufactures do that, but apparently yours is not one of those. It most likely went bad from poor maintenance. Poor maintenance seems common for many GL1800s. When they are purchased used, most selling owners will share about how well they cared for their Wing. To me that means they were kept shinny and clean, probably garaged, and had frequent oil and filter changes, with new brake pads, and tires when needed. Rarely does the original owner have a full set of maintenance records.

For proper maintenance, Honda says the clutch and brake fluid must be replaced every 2years or 12k whichever comes first. I have a 2001 in my shop now with a failing ADV. His ADV was replace because of poor maintenance in 2008, and it needs to be replaced again for the same reason. History has shown that not changing the brake fluid can cause ADV, secondary master cylinder, and rear brake master cylinder failure. In some cases, the rear caliper on a 2whl one needs replaced.

Here is how Honda describes it in Service Bulletin 23 (SB-23). " Honda has determined that under conditions where the brake fluid is subject to pro-longed aging due to a lack of maintenance (i.e., the brake fluid is not replaced for a long period of time despite the published maintenance schedule of replacement every 12,000miles or two years, whichever comes first), deposits may form within the brake fluid. If sufficient deposits are formed, they can result in a malfunction of the secondary master cylinder, which may cause the rear brake to drag."