Rings

[jcolson]

Finally heard something about my trike today, not good! Its been in a private shop for 2 mos. now. They finally found time to tear it down. Keeps using oil and another knocking sound. Some of you know what the problems I've had since new. The dealership built up the motor before I ever picked it up new. Used all SE parts so it would be covered under warranty. So much for that. Let me tell you what's in it.

10.5-1 forged pistons,259E cams,SE push rods(solid),+100 SE Ported & Polished heads,they left stock lifters in,why I don't know.

You never put stock lifters in a high out put motor with 100hp.The motor also has automatic compression releases,stage one and race tuner,V&H Power Duals with the High Output Mufflers.When I picked up the bike we took a trip to California and it used 2-1/2 qrts of oil.

When we got back home I took it to the dealership where I Bought it and they said the rings were upside down. They fired the mechanic cause he messed up other stuff too.They supposedly fixed the problem. So in 5000mi the lifters went out & trashed the rear cam & push rods.They fixed that. So our next trip was Denver to see one of my sons. Used oil again & the display on the radio went out. They fixed that again. Last year we stayed home & just took a little 2hr drive to a different HD dealership & the motor started knocking again. I forgot to tell you they put new jugs on since it was still using oil.

This was still under warranty. This last time I took it to an independent that used to own the dealership where I bought it.

The warranty was up this last time so It came out of my pocket. The stock lifters went out again.

I only had 15,000 mi on at this time.So this guy knows what he's doing. They race bikes and hill climb. He had to put a SE oil pump in. This was $1400 with everything. If we would've went on a trip we'd be stuck somewhere with a broken down piece of crap. So he fixed that by installing Competion Cam lifters.

It was still using oil so I took it back & he tore it down now & told me the rings were installed upside down again!! Plus the valve seals were leaking, a gouge in the cylinder wall, too big of a ring end gap, and the rods are too tight. No side to side clearance.

So all that has to be fixed. That had to be done from the factory. This is going to cost a fortune.

When do you say enough is enough? So now we might end up getting a lawyer to get the original dealer to pay for some of this cost. What do these schools teach these kids? It's not hard to put a set of rings in the correct way. They do come with a picture of the way they go in.

At least they used to. The main problem is these dealerships don't want to pay the price to get good techs. There is another dealership around town that won't even work on a 1995 motor. They told a buddy of mine they don't work on stuff that old.

This is just plain Bullsh---t. The place I bought mine at wouldn't even give me an extended warranty since it was souped up,even though it has SE parts. Sorry about the long book I just wrote but how do these dealerships sell these expensive toys and not know how to fix them right is beyond me. I have $45,000 in my trike for what?

I could have bought a nice BMW sports car cheaper than that. It's been in the shop more than I've had it.

I'm afraid to go on a trip anymore. Please forgive me again for this long post! This is a 2011 Tri-glide. Jim

 

[saab9k]

Sad. Very sad.

 

[msocko3]

Problem is 90% of the Harley Tech's only know to open boxes and install parts, I'm not sure if they even clean them before assembly. IMO there is no way I'd be busting open a box and straight up installing parts without checking the clearance, cleaning the part, chasing threads, etc.

Score in the cylinder wall may have come from dirty assembly habits, these idiots need to know they have to work clean. The rod side clearance is an odd one, it has to have some sort of clearance, just might be tighter than spec. Only way to fix that is pull the engine and split the cases, of course Harley doesn't rebuild crank shaft assemblies they just chuck them and replace with a new one. IMO if side clearance is the only problem I'd send it off to Darkhorse Crank works and have them rebuild it, and plug it while they have it. The plug will help keep it from shifting, they can also plug and weld which is what I had them do when they built the crank for my 120.

The picture is kind of crappy but you can see the plug in the center of the crank pin and the bead of weld on the crank in my 120.

 

[jcolson]

Yeah Mike, this really sucks!! Lou was saying something about doing something with the crank. said it would cost $1000. I thought he said something about a crank kit too but wasn't sure. I just told him to give me a price on doing it right. This is Bullsh--t!! I should've gotten Harley involved way back when you told me. Now they probably wont do anything, especially being a built motor. Plus attorney fees. Might as well buy a stock motor and put it back in.

I wouldn't be happy with that though.

So now I'm waiting to here back from Lou on a price.

Jim Sucks to be me!!!

 

[msocko3]

Yeah Mike, this really sucks!! Lou was saying something about doing something with the crank. said it would cost $1000. I thought he said something about a crank kit too but wasn't sure. I just told him to give me a price on doing it right. This is Bullsh--t!! I should've gotten Harley involved way back when you told me. Now they probably wont do anything, especially being a built motor. Plus attorney fees. Might as well buy a stock motor and put it back in.

I wouldn't be happy with that though.

So now I'm waiting to here back from Lou on a price.

Jim Sucks to be me!!!

If you have a good builder who chooses the correct parts you shouldn't have anymore issues. I ended up putting around $2,200 in the bottom end of my 120, but then that included converting the left bearing to the Timken, having them build me a brand new crank with H beam rods. I'm not sure what Dark Horse charges to do a rebuild and plug of a crank sent to them. I would have your builder replace the left side bearing with the SE lefty bearing if he hasn't already planned on it, it's a step up from the stock bearing. Unfortunately it won't be a cheap date to do it right, if the scratch on the cylinder wall isn't to deep you should be able to fix it by a slight over bore or taking it to a 107, down side is it's going to need retuned.

I'm pretty sure HD won't touch it since you took it too someone other than a Harley dealer, it doesn't hurt to ask. I hope you can get things straightened out, it shouldn't be this difficult to have a good running engine. One of the reasons I started doing my own engine work was finding someone I could trust. The 1st 95" engine I had in my 06 was weak on the bottom end torque because I let the builder talk me into a cam I knew wouldn't work out. To make matters worse I found he lied to me and used the wrong head gaskets when I tore it down to do the 2nd 95" build.

I specified a .030 gasket and found he installed a .040, guess I didn't figure I'd tare the engine down and mic the gaskets. The 95" build I did turned out to be a real hoot to ride, got great gas mileage and was reliable as the day was long.

Before I got my trike I did all my traveling on my Ultra, its been out west and to the east coast twice plus countless other trips into south eastern Pennsylvania.

My present 120 should be every bit as reliable as that 95" build was, I picked all the right parts for reliability and took a lot of pain to do it right.

 

[tfdeputydawg]

I would have considered a Jim's motor before I had any work done to the stock motor to start with. But then, you thought you were doing things right to retain warranty.
Always sad to read of such stories!
IMHO, modifications of the "internals" takes a very good mechanic to accomplish. Most of the "techs" in dealerships seem to be R&R mechanics. Remove old part and install new part and have no real knowledge for doing "custom" engine builds!

 

[msocko3]

I would have considered a Jim's motor before I had any work done to the stock motor to start with. But then, you thought you were doing things right to retain warranty.
Always sad to read of such stories!
IMHO, modifications of the "internals" takes a very good mechanic to accomplish. Most of the "techs" in dealerships seem to be R&R mechanics. Remove old part and install new part and have no real knowledge for doing "custom" engine builds!

Jim's are mixed bag. After what I saw one person go through with his 131 Jim's I don't think I'd touch one with a 10' pole, they do make decent tools.

 

[jcolson]

I really don't think Lou wants to get involved. Last time he did the work(when the 2nd set of lifters went out) he told me not to tell the dealership he did the work. His dad used to own the place where I bought the trike, then retired and sold it to Hooiser Harley. They also own the dealership in Pueblo,Co. Maybe he wants to stay in good standings with Hoosier in case he has to get parts there. It used to be called Gerencers Harley. They had a good reputation. Now Hoosiers has a bad rep. for working on stuff. Selling bikes is ok.

There is another private shop called CBM Cycle that is supposed to be very good.

In fact one of the original Techs from the old shop started the place.

I guess a lot of people that bought from Hoosiers now take their bikes to CBM. Its a catch 22 if your bike is still under warranty. Hey Mike, if you didn't live a state away I'd bring it to you.

 

[eighty80]

Good luck with that idea JColson. He lives almost next door to me and won't work on mine!!:Trike1:

 

[jcolson]

Hey Eighty 80 hows it going? guess I didn't get over there to see you guys did I? I wouldn't have made it the way the bike Keeps messing up! Maybe Mike is afraid if he screws up somebody's bike he'd have to pay for it. I don't blame him. I just hope when all is said and done I won't have anymore trouble. It would be nice not to have to carry a case of oil when I go on a trip. So many people said I should've left it stock & I wouldn't be having all this trouble. There is a lot of bikes out there that are souped up & don't have trouble with them. You guys know these things are gutless stock.

Even Dennis finally put a cam in his cause it was too hard to pull his trailer.

He really likes it now!

I haven't driven his since he put the cam in but it was pretty doggy before, course I'm used to mine. He drove mine last year before he took it to Georgia & really notice a difference. I sure hope he has good luck with his. He is a super nice guy & is smart as heck when it comes to making those fantastic trike goodies. Jim

 

[msocko3]

Good luck with that idea JColson. He lives almost next door to me and won't work on mine!!:Trike1:

You keep forgetting to say pretty please:kpzxvq:.

- - - Updated - - -

I really don't think Lou wants to get involved. Last time he did the work(when the 2nd set of lifters went out) he told me not to tell the dealership he did the work. His dad used to own the place where I bought the trike, then retired and sold it to Hooiser Harley. They also own the dealership in Pueblo,Co. Maybe he wants to stay in good standings with Hoosier in case he has to get parts there. It used to be called Gerencers Harley. They had a good reputation. Now Hoosiers has a bad rep. for working on stuff. Selling bikes is ok. There is another private shop called CBM Cycle that is supposed to be very good. In fact one of the original Techs from the old shop started the place. I guess a lot of people that bought from Hoosiers now take their bikes to CBM. Its a catch 22 if your bike is still under warranty. Hey Mike, if you didn't live a state away I'd bring it to you.

There is a place around 130 some odd miles from you who does some great engine work Engines By Otto if your present mechanic doesn't want to do it.

 

[jcolson]

Ok Mike i'll keep that in mine. Ok, Pretty Please!!!!!!!

 

[msocko3]

Ok Mike i'll keep that in mine. Ok, Pretty Please!!!!!!!

:laugh:.