Knock Count and the PV or Are my Pistons in danger

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Okay .. So I've been monitoring the knock count thing. I've noticed that if I let the trike warm a little, I don't get any knocks, ie, 0 on Both the front and rear knock counters. If I get on the trike and take off, I'll usually get 1 on the front and 1 or 2 on the rear. After that I get no more.

Questions:

Should I be worried about this?

If yes, what short of letting it warm skittle what is the fix?

Thanks in advance for your responses. I've read so many pages on the PV that I'm a little overwhelmed ... I'm guessing there's a setting for cold starts that I need to tweak ... Just really hesitant to adjust something I don't fully understand.

 

[screwball]

What is "a knock count thing"

Last I read you only have 3500 miles on that trike, still breaking in:Joker3:

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

As far as I can tell the knock count is a count of the times the ecm senses a knock condition. I also understand the ecm will try to adjust conditions to suppress the knock. Some of the more savvy tuners out there might wanna expand upon this.

 

[msocko3]

Okay .. So I've been monitoring the knock count thing. I've noticed that if I let the trike warm a little, I don't get any knocks, ie, 0 on Both the front and rear knock counters. If I get on the trike and take off, I'll usually get 1 on the front and 1 or 2 on the rear. After that I get no more.

Questions:

Should I be worried about this?

If yes, what short of letting it warm skittle what is the fix?

Thanks in advance for your responses. I've read so many pages on the PV that I'm a little overwhelmed ... I'm guessing there's a setting for cold starts that I need to tweak ... Just really hesitant to adjust something I don't fully understand.

It could be a couple things, it could be the plugs are a little off on their resistance until warmed up some. Or its a little lean on the warm up enrichment table. The knock sensor system uses Ion sensing, it senses the resistance at the plug and makes the appropriate changes when it see's it out of the norm.

Sometimes plugs or plug wires get a little goofy and effect this system. Back in 08 I chased such a gremlin on my 06 Ultra. At times it would ping then buck and back fire. I hooked the lap top up and did some data runs using the SERT (Used to be made by TTS). I found there were times it was pulling 13+ degrees of timing out when it thought knock was taking place. I replaced the plugs and the plug wires which solved the problem.

Speaking of spark plugs, one has to be choosy on what plugs they install. Sometimes the resistance is different on some of the plugs which can lead to false knock detection. Obviously the stock plugs are the ticket, I've had good luck with NGK plugs also, been running them for several years in my 06 Ultra and my dads 09 Triglide.

Plug wires are also another one which can cause you a problem. The stock wires are the way to fly, I've yet to meet a trick wire that will out do the stock ones, I run stock wires on the 120 in my 06 Ultra. In the service manual you will find there is a resistance specification for plug wires, if it doesn't fall in the good range its time to replace it. Some aftermarket wires don't meet the resistance specifications which can cause false knock signals.

In your case, I'm betting the plugs might be a little goofy, I wouldn't sweat it, its actually a good thing to let it warm up a tad before riding. If you want to experiment some you could get a new set of plugs and swap them and see if it goes away. If it doesn't I would look at maybe adding a little fuel in the affected temperature area of the warm up enrichment table.

- - - Updated - - -

What is "a knock count thing"

Last I read you only have 3500 miles on that trike, still breaking in:Joker3:

The tuner he is using keeps track of how many times the ECM senses knock, at times the knock could be a false and other times it is real. Knock can take place and you may never hear it, other times you'll hear it clicking or out right pinging when accelerating or adding throttle while going up a hill.

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

So I shouldn't worry about the 1200 mile burger run coming up?

 

[msocko3]

So I shouldn't worry about the 1200 mile burger run coming up?

I wouldn't, I would however pack a couple spark plugs just in case something goofy would happen.

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

I wouldn't, I would however pack a couple spark plugs just in case something goofy would happen.

Good idea ... I'll pick some up ... put them with the rest of the stuff I haul. Drive Belt, Tire Plugging kit, compressor, LOL, the list goes on.

 

[Sully]

Good idea ... I'll pick some up ... put them with the rest of the stuff I haul. Drive Belt, Tire Plugging kit, compressor, LOL, the list goes on.

Or if your a member, just call AAA

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Or if your a member, just call AAA

LOL ... the routes we take, might be weeks before anyone finds us. I have roadside assistance, when you call they tell you find a tow and they'll pay ... The trip we are taking in about a week is five legs of 100 miles with lots of desert in between ... no towns in between, no gas, just lizards and snakes ... it's pretty in a stark sort of way.

 

[screwball]

True Story, I've told it here before.

Worst mod I ever did was changing out the air temp gage on my '09 Tri-Glide to an oil temperature gage. I read a zillion posts about the absolute need for a Godzilla sized oil cooler because the engine 'felt' hot. For the next 20,000 miles I rode around with one eye on the beautiful scenery that was passing by, and the other on that God Damned oil temp gage. Yes, when I got stuck in traffic the temp went up, when we got going again, it went down. The bike never overheated, it just ran and ran and ran. I traded it in with just under 60,000 miles

You are going to worry yourself to death checking your 'knock counter' when it only knocks 1 or 2 times during warm up.... and these may be false knocks. You said you carry around a spare drive belt. Do you have the tools and know-how to change it on the side of the road??? Probably not, so you will have it towed to a dealer where they have a zillion belts hanging on the wall, Ditto spark plugs All you have to do is push the 'dealer' button on your GPS and it will tell you where the nearest dealer is and your warranty will pay for it.

Now, stop worrying and go ride that beautiful machine. Let it get dirty, it will wash. If it hasn't broken in 3000 miles, changes are it probably won't. Remember, with the exception of fuel injection and computer controlled ignition your (and mine) engine is based on 1940's technology..... what works works well.

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

A: not worrying about it ... Just being proactive

B: not watching it at all, the PV actually does data logs that I can look at after the fact

C: this whole process is only gonna happen until I'm done tuning ... And I'm almost there

D: when 90% of your riding mile are >45 miles from civilization, you want, no need to be as sure as possible that your ride is in as good a shape mechanically as possible

E: it is just plain fun to me to learn about my bike and get is running as good as possible

I do appreciate your input though, when I go on the longer rides where I'm >45 mile from civilization, I do truely enjoy the scenery and wildlife ... Probably because I've been proactive and know the bike is as ready as it can be.

One last thing ... Around here when we are in the boonies .... We are really in the boonies ... No cell ... No cb ... No nada ... I've thought about purchasing a satellite phone, but that would just be obsessing.

 

[Papa Zook]

Screwball, I enjoy your posts and I understand that you always like to play Devil's advocate when it comes to folks modifying or wrenching on their Harleys and I have no problem with that, but unlike you, not everyone just sticks the key in their trike and rides, never concerned when their bike knocks, pings or overheats.

Some folks want to get the very best out of their trike and many would argue that Harleys aren't at their very best out of the crate. These folks are more technical minded and want the whys and hows answered and where better to do that than posting their questions here on this forum? To jump into someone's thread and try to invalidate a person's desire to know more about the workings of their trike and how to improve it is not appropriate.

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Okay ... so an update

Three nights ago, I started setting it up the do basic auto tune the night before. Did the 20 minute ride thing and that night, set it up to do the same the next day. This morning, after the two autotune runs, I did my normal and got 0 front and 0 rear knock counts ... in the past the best it did was 0 front and 1 rear. I'll keep watching it, but I think autotune made the needed adjustments.

 

[Steve on 3]

Good job Fuzzhe. Those must be some good burgers to ride 1200 miles for ! Post pics of the trip and the burgers. You da man !

 

[msocko3]

Okay ... so an update

Three nights ago, I started setting it up the do basic auto tune the night before. Did the 20 minute ride thing and that night, set it up to do the same the next day. This morning, after the two autotune runs, I did my normal and got 0 front and 0 rear knock counts ... in the past the best it did was 0 front and 1 rear. I'll keep watching it, but I think autotune made the needed adjustments.

Good to hear.

 

[geezerglide11441]

Screwball, I enjoy your posts and I understand that you always like to play Devil's advocate when it comes to folks modifying or wrenching on their Harleys and I have no problem with that, but unlike you, not everyone just sticks the key in their trike and rides, never concerned when their bike knocks, pings or overheats.

Some folks want to get the very best out of their trike and many would argue that Harleys aren't at their very best out of the crate. These folks are more technical minded and want the whys and hows answered and where better to do that than posting their questions here on this forum? To jump into someone's thread and try to invalidate a person's desire to know more about the workings of their trike and how to improve it is not appropriate.

:Agree: 100%!!! Kinda tired of the negativity of Screwballs posts myself!!

 

[Livin2Ride]

:Agree: 100%!!! Kinda tired of the negativity of Screwballs posts myself!!

Hope you are just speaking for yourself. I can't find anything wrong with that was said in Screwball's post. IMO the Boss is off the mark on this one.

 

[Keystone]

You are going to worry yourself to death checking your 'knock counter' when it only knocks 1 or 2 times during warm up.... and these may be false knocks. You said you carry around a spare drive belt. Do you have the tools and know-how to change it on the side of the road??? Probably not, so you will have it towed to a dealer where they have a zillion belts hanging on the wall, Ditto spark plugs All you have to do is push the 'dealer' button on your GPS and it will tell you where the nearest dealer is and your warranty will pay for it.

I wouldn't call discussing a tune program as "worrying". And heck, carrying spare plugs has been common place as long as I have been riding. I even carry a new spare shift linkage. Why? Because I have seen too many break. I carry a nice set of tools with me all the time. Not because I worry, but because one never knows when they will be needed. More than once while in a group I have heard my name being shouted across a parking lot because they know I carry those tools. My point? Just because you (or me) doesn't do something doesn't mean others shouldn't.

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Hey guys .. he's entitled to his opinion, but as stated eloquently by Zook ... I'm one of the guys that likes to tweak ... at least until I'm happy with my ride ... Some people don't ... I know lots of people who just ride em hard and trade em as soon as the next new thing is out ... I too like new toys ... but I bought this trike thinking it was my last ride ... I'd like to be able to get lots of miles out of it ... and anyone who's been around Harley's for any length of time knows a stock Harley is only good for about 60k ... that's when trade ins drop drastically ... there is a reason for that.

I can't change all the things about my ride that make 60k a lot of miles, but I can change some of them, getting rid of the insanely lean tune that Harley is required to put on these bikes by the gov't is definitely one, my 07 Ultra had 82k on it when I sold it ... and it was one of the best running Harley's I've ever owned ... the guy who bought it has just over 90k now and still loves it.

All I'm saying, is if you wanna start it and ride ... go for it ... if ya like to tweak ... tweak ... personally, I like when I pull into a rally or other gathering and my ride is unique ... so I go all out.

This is not worth getting all fired up over ... especially in the big picture of life.

 

[tfdeputydawg]

Screwball, I enjoy your posts and I understand that you always like to play Devil's advocate when it comes to folks modifying their Harleys and I have no problem with that, but unlike you, not everyone just sticks the key in their trike and rides, never concerned when their bike knocks, pings or overheats.

Some folks want to get the very best out of their trike and many would argue that Harleys aren't at their very best out of the crate. These folks are more technical minded and want the whys and hows answered and where better to do that than posting their questions here on this forum? To jump into someone's thread and try to invalidate a person's desire to know more about the workings of their trike and how to improve it is not appropriate.

Well said!
We don't need posts questioning one's ability to work on their bike or their desire to learn more about their trike.