Knock Count and the PV or Are my Pistons in danger

Okay guys the bottom line here is this thread was about auto tuning not just going out and riding. We need to keep our posts addressing the thread not saying that the thread is not for us. If you do not have anything to contribute to the integrity of the thread then please don't post to it. None of us have input to all threads. If it doesn't apply to you or you don't have something positive to add move on to threads that you can contribute to. This forum is about helping others.
 
Hope you are just speaking for yourself. I can't find anything wrong with that was said in Screwball's post. IMO the Boss is off the mark on this one.

I was in fact speaking for myself, and probably a lot of other members that are probably tired of Screwballs negative comments that usually do not even address the Original posters questions/concerns/comments. This forum (I thought) was to help others seeking help/knowledge with issues/problems/advise on their bikes, and not to degrade them for even asking!! It appeared to me that Fuzzy was asking a question of a concern about the bike and PV info and in MY opinion did not deserve the lecture!

Hang in in there Fuzzy, we are with ya!! Keep asking and at least someone will answer in a respectful way!

Roger

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I wouldn't call discussing a tune program as "worrying". And heck, carrying spare plugs has been common place as long as I have been riding. I even carry a new spare shift linkage. Why? Because I have seen too many break. I carry a nice set of tools with me all the time. Not because I worry, but because one never knows when they will be needed. More than once while in a group I have heard my name being shouted across a parking lot because they know I carry those tools. My point? Just because you (or me) doesn't do something doesn't mean others shouldn't.

:Agree:
Roger
 
I personally like to tinker. Once my bike/trikes are set up I can get kinda antsy to move on. I am on my way home right now with a 52 pan head I just picked up in Dallas to restore just for that reason. It's a chopper now but has original motor,frame,and most important original title.
 
I think we're getting a little off topic here, I know at times it does happen and I'm just as guilty as the next for doing it. I side with Zook, he's right on the money.

It does get a little stale to have someone come into almost every cam, engine build or tuning thread and offer nothing more than opinion on the merits of riding a stock trike and letting a dealer perform all service work. These threads are someone either seeking advice, or information about their particular problem, or sharing some good how to information so others who are like minded can do it them selves also.

Here is a truth. When I first got started riding Harley's, I never had any intentions on wrenching on them, figured that was what the dealer is for. Well after a spell I grew tired of being raped, come on $300 for a 5,000 mile service which only cost about $70 in parts, and not all the work which should have been performed was performed. So I started doing the service work on my dads and my bikes. Then as one thing lead to another I decided I wanted to do my own engine work, not much of a leap for me since I've wrenched on some pretty expensive race cars over the years. With engine work came the need to learn tuning, also not a far stretch since I was pretty good at tuning a blown and injected dragster.

As time went on I learned a good deal about the product and how to properly work on it. The sickness grew even more since I decided a whole new top, mid and bottom tool chest was needed just for specialized and motorcycle specific tools, this also then fueled the desire for a table lift since working off the floor sucks.

Funny thing happened as my knowledge grew, I found a good many of the different dealers mechanics are nothing more than parts changers. They do a damn fine job opening those boxes and swapping parts. There are dealers out there who don't have a single good trouble shooter, on the flip side there are some dealers with quality people. The problem is the game of Russian Roulette your going to play trying to weed out the bad from the good. I want to control my own destiny, I don't want to bring a bike home from the dealer and find loose bolts, only half the work on the service performed, a ding in a fender or scratch on the tank.

So with this being said, if you don't wish to tune, wrench, or make modifications, maybe you should steer clear of these threads. By all means read them if you want, never know you might pick something helpful up, but please don't be a broken record and constantly rain on a thread with the same dogma about how great they are stock, my dealer does it better, I have no need to dragrace, etc. There are those of use who expect more, and are willing to get our hands dirty to achieve that goal, or at least know when we're being hosed by a parts changer.

Now my hands hurt from all this typing and I have a trike with a fresh top end, ported heads and cams which I built, that needs tuned by me. Something about the satisfaction of just doing it your self.
 
You've put my feelings about wrenching on my trike into the right perspective ... I wrenched on Nuclear Reactors ... figured working on a bike or now a trike can't be all that hard ... not hard but way different ... still learning but you've captured the excitement of doing it myself.
 
Like Totally STOCK Bikes, and ride em' Totally STOCK, never tinker or work on Your Trike, then just read the Technical Threads ( I'm suggesting this only in the realm that there is no such thing as too much knowledge ) and skip posting on Them. Very, Very Few Threads I don't read here at TRIKE TALK eventually (playing catch up this morning due to outside yesterday moving junk vehicles around, and Supper with Family last night), but I don't generally post on Tech Threads unless I feel I have something to contribute from Personal Knowledge.

"Most" of these Threads generally start out as a "Semi-Question". The Author is looking for Personal Experience Feedback from Other Members. Please let These Threads work as an Informative Tech Thread with Information and Other Questions pertaining only to the Original Thread Subject submitted by Others with a Genuine Concern for the Subject presented. Just Think before You Post...is it going to actually contribute useable info ???...is it a question about only the intended Thread subject ???...if not, move along to a "Ride Thread", "Funny Thread", etc., etc. ...also, as I've stated in the past, Keep All of Your Posts Civil and Respectful to ALL of the Members here at TRIKE TALK....Thanks, skuuter.....ThumbUp
 
I think we're getting a little off topic here, I know at times it does happen and I'm just as guilty as the next for doing it. I side with Zook, he's right on the money.

It does get a little stale to have someone come into almost every cam, engine build or tuning thread and offer nothing more than opinion on the merits of riding a stock trike and letting a dealer perform all service work. These threads are someone either seeking advice, or information about their particular problem, or sharing some good how to information so others who are like minded can do it them selves also.

Here is a truth. When I first got started riding Harley's, I never had any intentions on wrenching on them, figured that was what the dealer is for. Well after a spell I grew tired of being raped, come on $300 for a 5,000 mile service which only cost about $70 in parts, and not all the work which should have been performed was performed. So I started doing the service work on my dads and my bikes. Then as one thing lead to another I decided I wanted to do my own engine work, not much of a leap for me since I've wrenched on some pretty expensive race cars over the years. With engine work came the need to learn tuning, also not a far stretch since I was pretty good at tuning a blown and injected dragster.

As time went on I learned a good deal about the product and how to properly work on it. The sickness grew even more since I decided a whole new top, mid and bottom tool chest was needed just for specialized and motorcycle specific tools, this also then fueled the desire for a table lift since working off the floor sucks.

Funny thing happened as my knowledge grew, I found a good many of the different dealers mechanics are nothing more than parts changers. They do a damn fine job opening those boxes and swapping parts. There are dealers out there who don't have a single good trouble shooter, on the flip side there are some dealers with quality people. The problem is the game of Russian Roulette your going to play trying to weed out the bad from the good. I want to control my own destiny, I don't want to bring a bike home from the dealer and find loose bolts, only half the work on the service performed, a ding in a fender or scratch on the tank.

So with this being said, if you don't wish to tune, wrench, or make modifications, maybe you should steer clear of these threads. By all means read them if you want, never know you might pick something helpful up, but please don't be a broken record and constantly rain on a thread with the same dogma about how great they are stock, my dealer does it better, I have no need to dragrace, etc. There are those of use who expect more, and are willing to get our hands dirty to achieve that goal, or at least know when we're being hosed by a parts changer.

Now my hands hurt from all this typing and I have a trike with a fresh top end, ported heads and cams which I built, that needs tuned by me. Something about the satisfaction of just doing it your self.

:Agree: 100% and I could not have said it better!!! Annnnd my hands don't hurt from this short reply!! Thanks msoko3!!

Roger

- - - Updated - - -

You've put my feelings about wrenching on my trike into the right perspective ... I wrenched on Nuclear Reactors ... figured working on a bike or now a trike can't be all that hard ... not hard but way different ... still learning but you've captured the excitement of doing it myself.

Keep on keeping on Fuzzy, we (most of us anyway) are behind you!! Ride safe and keep asking questions, we all learned that way!!

Roger
 
Next time something like this comes up, I'll just delete what I consider inappropriate or unnecessary posts and handle the situation privately, for sure the best way to handle future situations like this. This one took off so I decided to let it run its course and I think we all learned from this. Now lets let Fuzzy try to resume the original conversation if that is possible.
 
Next time something like this comes up, I'll just delete what I consider inappropriate or unnecessary posts and handle the situation privately, for sure the best way to handle future situations like this. This one took off so I decided to let it run its course and I think we all learned from this. Now lets let Fuzzy try to resume the original conversation if that is possible.

Exactly......ThumbUp
 
You've put my feelings about wrenching on my trike into the right perspective ... I wrenched on Nuclear Reactors ... figured working on a bike or now a trike can't be all that hard ... not hard but way different ... still learning but you've captured the excitement of doing it myself.

You got the right idea, the best thing you can have is the service manual. I always make it a point to buy the service manual and the parts book when I buy a bike or trike. For the most part it is not very difficult if a person is mechanically inclined and has the desire to do it them selves.
 
Sorry to be jumping in so late but I too have to support Zook in his statement. If a guy asks a legitimate question, if one has the technical ability to answer, please try. I for one wrenched on my 2 cycle dirt bikes in my younger years but a tuner and canbus are a foreign language to these old eyes. Another thing I get tired of reading is..Do you have a service manual? If they had a service manual, they would be asking the questions or maybe like me, their trike supplement took 4 damn weeks to get here. Followed closely by Did you do a search? Yes there may be 50 threads answering the same question but some newb had a question he needed answered.

I am 62 and many of you have ridden more miles than I have and can wrench far better than I will ever be able to. But like Fuzzy, I want to know that my bike is in the best shape it can be. Just because I have a warranty doesn't mean I can't do something to it that will break just after the warranty expires. Especially if it was something I could keep from happening like letting my bike knock or ping. I know many of us post on the other board too but that board is full of smart azzed replies and shots at others. I think we as trike owners are above that. I have no expertise in Hondas or Stallions or other bikes so I don't post much there but I do read them if interested and see how their issues or fixes relate to my situation. Never would I say, screw it, your covered, go ride.

Finally, it is often difficult to read nuances into typing. face to face we can see each others expressions and know if we are pulling someones leg or not. Here not so much. So let's try to give each other the benefit of the doubt and if you cant add something constructive or at least entertaining to the thread, read it and move on. I for one would trust Kevin and Msocko with tech knowledge, others, including myself, not so much. Ask me about food I can talk with passion and facts. Let's not follow the example of the other board and ruin the camaraderie we share now.

Thanks for reading.. I sure will be glad when summer gets here !
 
I went to purchase a new set of plugs to take on the trip ... the parts guy talked me into a set of (as Msocko calls em) Screaming Chicken plugs. Mscoko warned me the SE plugs are notorious for high knock count.

I installed the plugs and guess what, the Screaming Chickens are giving me much higher knock counts ... as before, I get between 0 and 1 on the front and 1 to 2 on the rear just starting the bike. But, I've seen as high as 9 on both just riding around. Needless to say, I'm gonna take those out and put the stock back in. I think I'll put the rear in the front, and the front in the rear. If my knock count reverses from before, I'll know the stock plugs are causing it ... if not, I'll just ride it. Might get a new set of plug wires if it's still higher in the rear.
 
Fuzzy,

on my 95 EVo engine Ultra, it almost would not run with the Screaming Chickens in it. Bought the plugs, plug wires and the ignition module. Ended up putting the stock stuff back in. Except for the air cleaners which supposedly flow more, I leave the screaming chicken stuff alone.
 
I went to purchase a new set of plugs to take on the trip ... the parts guy talked me into a set of (as Msocko calls em) Screaming Chicken plugs. Mscoko warned me the SE plugs are notorious for high knock count.

I installed the plugs and guess what, the Screaming Chickens are giving me much higher knock counts ... as before, I get between 0 and 1 on the front and 1 to 2 on the rear just starting the bike. But, I've seen as high as 9 on both just riding around. Needless to say, I'm gonna take those out and put the stock back in. I think I'll put the rear in the front, and the front in the rear. If my knock count reverses from before, I'll know the stock plugs are causing it ... if not, I'll just ride it. Might get a new set of plug wires if it's still higher in the rear.

Fuzzy, the settings are different from front to rear cylinder so changing the plugs back to front might not make a difference. Sometimes it does, but not always.
You are still ok with just that count anyway. Sometimes I can get some count going from decelerate to accelerate real fast. Not getting them otherwise. Just a fast change in fuel in the cylinders.
 
Update

Well ... the trike ran great the entire trip, averaged 35.5mpg for the whole 1000 miles in varying conditions, highway @80mph, country roads @60-65mph, even stop and go in Zion National Park.

There is bad news ... I was seeing 12-18 knock counts on both cylinders over a 100-150 mile run. Not sure if it's plugs, wires, ghosts. I never heard a knock or ping, I did have an 80 mile run where the power felt "off". We stopped for fuel at a tiny station in the middle of nowhere. One of those no name places and after that the trike felt sluggish. After 85 miles I stooped again and topped off with Shell ... after that it felt normal, back to it's peppy self. Even when it felt sluggish, I never hear any knocks or pings. I'm guessing they are false counts, just can't figure out why. I think Taylor wires are in my future.
 
Have you taken a close look at the tuner ? wires, connections, maybe some interference from the motor :Shrug: maybe thats causing the faults.
 
Well ... the trike ran great the entire trip, averaged 35.5mpg for the whole 1000 miles in varying conditions, highway @80mph, country roads @60-65mph, even stop and go in Zion National Park.

There is bad news ... I was seeing 12-18 knock counts on both cylinders over a 100-150 mile run. Not sure if it's plugs, wires, ghosts. I never heard a knock or ping, I did have an 80 mile run where the power felt "off". We stopped for fuel at a tiny station in the middle of nowhere. One of those no name places and after that the trike felt sluggish. After 85 miles I stooped again and topped off with Shell ... after that it felt normal, back to it's peppy self. Even when it felt sluggish, I never hear any knocks or pings. I'm guessing they are false counts, just can't figure out why. I think Taylor wires are in my future.

Wires are pretty cheap, for sh!ts and grins you could check the resistance of your wires and see if they fall within the good range.

Crappy fuel is always a bummer, I always held my breath when riding out west in the SD area. I used to carry a bottle of O2 sensor safe octane booster with me for when I could only get 87 - 89 octane.
 
Had a knock problem. They called it Pre-ignition knocking. Reprogramed computer, good to go. Was getting the knock when the rpm's would level out at cruising, and then when I got on it, it knocked.
No more.
 
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