2002 Roadhawk questions

[starrider1946]

Just bought a 02 Roadhawk and have questions about the brakes. It doesn't have a brake on the front wheel just the rear. It has a very hard pedal and to me the brakes don't work very good. As far as I know everything is stock. I adjusted the brakes the way the VW manual says and it might have helped a little but still not good brakes. I read a few articles on the forum about piston cylinder size of the master cylinder but didn't understand if that helped. Could my master cylinder not be working properly? I talked to the company that sells the Roadhawk. I told them about the brakes and told the guy I don't see how they could sell the trike with inferior brakes and he agreed. He told me to start by readjusting the brakes and agreed I have something wrong. I will keep checking until I get better brakes hopefully. I don't feel safe at any speed. If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it.
Also at around 42 to 46 mph I get a vibration from the front then after I get past that it's fine. There are no wheel weights on the rim. I think I will take it off and have dyna beads put in and hopefully that helps. Does anyone else when owns a Roadhawk have any problem with vibration.
If I can get these two things straightened out I believe I will be really happy. Thanks

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

What brakes did roadhawk use?
Disc or drums?
Vw parts?
Typically the rear brakes on an car are only around 20% of the stopping power.
On a trike they are near 100%.
So normally they should be beefed up from stock automobile units.
Basic rule of thumb would be....
Largest bore you can at the wheel.
Smallest bore you can at the master.
On a drum brake you usually use a larger bore front brake slave cylinder.
Then there is many different master cylinder bore sizes. Most people use one in the 5/8 to 3/4 bore range.

 

[stinger608]

Seems as though RoadHawk used the stock VW type brakes and master. I would look at the geometry of the peddle. Is it too short causing it to be very hard to push?

Maybe look as something like these to install vs the stock VW master cylinder?

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/vw-trike-pedal-assemblies.html

They are a bit pricey but for decent brakes I think it would be worth it.

 

[starrider1946]

Death, I believe all parts for the running gear are VW. I am not sure what year the trans axle is and I assume everything on the trike is the way it came from the factory. It does have drum brakes. I didn't know they ever used disc. I see pictures of some Roadhawks that have a springier front end like mine have a disc brake. Does anyone know who sells a kit for front brakes? I will keep checking and hopefully get it straight.
Stinger, I measured the pedal and it measures 5 1/4 inches from center of the tube it is welded to to center of the pedal itself if that makes sense. Like I told Death I believe that is the way it came. I would be willing to extend the pedal if that would help. I looked at the master cylinder and pedal set up at Pacific Customs. That is a little pricey but if it helped it would be worth the money for sure. I didn't read but I wonder if it would bolt right up. I'll check in to it.
Have you heard of anyone with vibration problems on the front? I am going to get the tire balance checked and hope that helps..
Thanks Death and Stinger.

 

[stinger608]

Death, I believe all parts for the running gear are VW. I am not sure what year the trans axle is and I assume everything on the trike is the way it came from the factory. It does have drum brakes. I didn't know they ever used disc. I see pictures of some Roadhawks that have a springier front end like mine have a disc brake. Does anyone know who sells a kit for front brakes? I will keep checking and hopefully get it straight.
Stinger, I measured the pedal and it measures 5 1/4 inches from center of the tube it is welded to to center of the pedal itself if that makes sense. Like I told Death I believe that is the way it came. I would be willing to extend the pedal if that would help. I looked at the master cylinder and pedal set up at Pacific Customs. That is a little pricey but if it helped it would be worth the money for sure. I didn't read but I wonder if it would bolt right up. I'll check in to it.
Have you heard of anyone with vibration problems on the front? I am going to get the tire balance checked and hope that helps..
Thanks Death and Stinger.

Wow, at only 5 1/4" I have to think that is probably the issue. If you noticed on Pacific Customs site, the shortest peddle is 12". Maybe you could cut the peddle and put extra length on the one you have? If you could get it around 10" or more I would think that would help a ton.

I have to believe that the front wheel and tire are in fact out of balance. Not sure on the Dyna beads but you could also take it to a motorcycle shop and have it spun balanced. I am sure it wouldn't be all that expensive. Probably $20 to $30 tops.

 

[starrider1946]

Well if it should be around 12" that could be my problem. I'll get my friend to extend the length. That is going to make it kind of odd to use the pedal but if that helps the stopping power I'll do it. I had no idea it should be that long.
I just had dyna beads put in the front tire and I can't tell it made any difference. I don't know if the cycle shops here can spin balance the tire and wheel. I was hoping the dyna beads would do it. I wonder if an automotive shop could do it? I am going to jack it up and check and make sure the front wheel isn't bent or anything. Thanks for the advice and I'll keep up the post.

Wow, at only 5 1/4" I have to think that is probably the issue. If you noticed on Pacific Customs site, the shortest peddle is 12". Maybe you could cut the peddle and put extra length on the one you have? If you could get it around 10" or more I would think that would help a ton.

I have to believe that the front wheel and tire are in fact out of balance. Not sure on the Dyna beads but you could also take it to a motorcycle shop and have it spun balanced. I am sure it wouldn't be all that expensive. Probably $20 to $30 tops.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Check your wheel cylinders also.
If someone who did not know went to the auto parts store and bought vw rear brake cylinders they would have gotten the wrong parts. Would lower the brake power a lot.

 

[starrider1946]

2002 rodahawk questions

So what do I need to make sure I have the right wheel cylinders and everything is right for the rear? You think I need to buy new wheel cylinders? I also looked at the master cylinder. It has one of the old style I think called single circuit master cylinders. It is so small. Basically looks like a tube to me. I don't see how it could be that strong. I am going to check Monday with Pacific Customs. I hope they sell one that bolts right in place without modifications. There isn't a whole lot of room but hopefully theirs will fit. On the wheel deal I jacked the trike up.O

Check your wheel cylinders also. On the wheel deal I jacked the trike up and spun the wheel over by hand and I can see some run out in the tire. The rim looks pretty good but I will carry it to the guy here in town that can hopefully fix me up. Don't really want weights on the rim but if that what it takes that's what I will do. Don't like that vibration. Will keep you posted.
If someone who did not know went to the auto parts store and bought vw rear brake cylinders they would have gotten the wrong parts. Would lower the brake power a lot.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

It has been more than 30yrs since I have run vw drums. I run disc brakes. I made mine go faster so I gotta stop faster too.
I might could do the research for you and come up with the bore sizes.

But what you are looking for is the diameter of the wheel cylinder bore. Would have to actually look at it and probably measure also. Original German parts might have identifying marks on them. But the original parts from Germany are probably long long gone.


The master cylinder would be a single circuit because that is all you have, a single circuit, *rears only. So yes it will be a simple tube shape. The smaller the bore the better.*
I would be willing to bet that originally it had sufficient brakes and that something has been changed to a wrong part or that your axle seals leak and the shoes are soaked with oil.
With as short of a lever as you have the bore diameter would have to be small. Look for it to be 5/8 to 11/16 (15 to 17mm). The common vw single with the built on reservoir is a 7/8 (22mm). That one would be wayyyyy stiff to push.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Ok the std rear drum brake wheel cylinders are 17mm bore.
They should be swapped to super beetle front drum brake cylinders that are 22.8mm bore.
Changing piston area from 227 Sq mm to 445 Sq mm. Effectively doubling the force applied.
I would think a commercial builder knows this. But if somewhere over the years someone walking into the auto parts store and said "I need wheel cylinders for a beetle rear end" then they got the wrong thing and it now takes twice the pedal force to stop.

Same thing about the master, if it has been changed to the wrong one then it could be the problem.

Also check for the obvious.
Worn out shoes.
Leaking seals / oily shoes.
Collapsed rubber lines.

 

[starrider1946]

2002 rodahawk question

Thanks so much for the info. I think as a start I will get the super beetle brake cylinders. Put new rubber lines on and extend the length of the brake pedal unless Pacific Customs has a master cylinder that I can just bolt right on. I will call them Monday. I'll do this and see what I have.I didn't finish my post awhile ago about the front wheel. I am going to a place here in town that can spin balance the front wheel, get that done and hope that fixes my problem. I'll probably go ahead and have the rears done also. I'll keep you posted and let you know the outcome. Thanks again.

Ok the std rear drum brake wheel cylinders are 17mm bore.
They should be swapped to super beetle front drum brake cylinders that are 22.8mm bore.
Changing piston area from 227 Sq mm to 445 Sq mm. Effectively doubling the force applied.
I would think a commercial builder knows this.

But if somewhere over the years someone walking into the auto parts store and said "I need wheel cylinders for a beetle rear end" then they got the wrong thing and it now takes twice the pedal force to stop.

Same thing about the master, if it has been changed to the wrong one then it could be the problem.

Also check for the obvious.
Worn out shoes.
Leaking seals / oily shoes.
Collapsed rubber lines.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The super beetle front wheel cylinders are not a direct bolt on to all rear mount plates. Some backing plates need the holes enlarged or slotted for the bolt holes.
Of course I am working from old memories from 30 plus years ago.
Good luck

 

[starrider1946]

2002 roadhawk questions

I will check these things out and check on the 22mm wheel cyclinders.If the line would connect right up it wouldn't be bad jus to enlarge the mocunting holes.Thanks again for the help.

Ok the std rear drum brake wheel cylinders are 17mm bore.
They should be swapped to super beetle front drum brake cylinders that are 22.8mm bore.
Changing piston area from 227 Sq mm to 445 Sq mm. Effectively doubling the force applied.
I would think a commercial builder knows this. But if somewhere over the years someone walking into the auto parts store and said "I need wheel cylinders for a beetle rear end" then they got the wrong thing and it now takes twice the pedal force to stop.

Same thing about the master, if it has been changed to the wrong one then it could be the problem.

Also check for the obvious.
Worn out shoes.
Leaking seals / oily shoes.
Collapsed rubber lines.

 

[stinger608]

The super beetle front wheel cylinders are not a direct bolt on to all rear mount plates. Some backing plates need the holes enlarged or slotted for the bolt holes.
Of course I am working from old memories from 30 plus years ago.
Good luck

You, my friend, have a good memory. I believe that is completely correct.

 

[KaySea]

Re: Questions

Just bought a 02 Roadhawk and have questions about the brakes. It doesn't have a brake on the front wheel just the rear. It has a very hard pedal and to me the brakes don't work very good. As far as I know everything is stock. I adjusted the brakes the way the VW manual says and it might have helped a little but still not good brakes. I read a few articles on the forum about piston cylinder size of the master cylinder but didn't understand if that helped. Could my master cylinder not be working properly? I talked to the company that sells the Roadhawk. I told them about the brakes and told the guy I don't see how they could sell the trike with inferior brakes and he agreed. He told me to start by readjusting the brakes and agreed I have something wrong.

I will keep checking until I get better brakes hopefully. I don't feel safe at any speed. If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it.
Also at around 42 to 46 mph I get a vibration from the front then after I get past that it's fine. There are no wheel weights on the rim. I think I will take it off and have dyna beads put in and hopefully that helps. Does anyone else when owns a Roadhawk have any problem with vibration.
If I can get these two things straightened out I believe I will be really happy. Thanks

For what its worth; I, too, purchased an '02 Roadhawk about a year ago. Of course it was used. So I don't know what modifications had been done to it. When I bought it, I considered it to be in fair condition.

But since I got it at a very good price, I decided to take a chance, and make it a project. Here is a couple things I found out that may be of help.
1. Mine has Disk brakes on all Three wheels. But the front brake did not function at all. The problem turned out to be that the Piston on the front master cylinder was frozen. I found that the front break is from a Harley Sportster. So a rebuild of the Master cylinder took care of that.
2. The entire front end is from a Harley FX Springer. I knew that because I used to have that model Harley.) Because a Springer front end is heavy, the Goose-Neck bearings wear out more frequently.

That might be causing the Vibration.
I am told that the remainder of the Drive train is VW. Now my motor is a 2333cc. I am also told that its kind of a modified Volkswagen engine, and it was the engine used in the early Porsche's. And with that, that's another issue I have. Since its sort of a Hot rod, it runs ruff at low RPM's. I don't particularly like that, but again, "Its a project".

 

[stinger608]

modified Volkswagen engine, and it was the engine used in the early Porsche's

Na, if its a stroked and large bore VDub engine it was never used in a Porsche. Porsche had their own design of engine that had different cylinders, heads, intake, and cooling fan system. The mid 70 Porsche 914 used an engine that was later used also in the VW vans.

Unless that is the type of VW engine your running and not the original type 1 engine.

 

[vwbug72501]

2002 roadhawk questions

Do the exhaust ports come horizontally out of the front and back of the cylinder heads or vertically out of the bottom? Horizontal = type 1,2,3 (bug, early van, ghia, squareback). Vertical = type 4 (Porsche 914, late van). Post a picture.

 

[Basil]

Definitely change over to rear disc brakes and a hydraulic brake unit. I had the same problem with the drum brakes on my Kharman ghia trike conversion. You will be much happier and safer. Also, have the problem with the front end shake. A new tire and balancement {this is a must}will go a long ways to remedy this but you may not get it all out. Been riding mine over 10 years.

 

[roadhawk]

My 99 Roadhawk came with drums, totally worthless when pulling a trailer. <br />
Installing the EMPI disk brake conversion was the best thing I ever did to it.<br />
No front brake and still have plenty of stopping power.

 

[stinger608]

My 99 Roadhawk came with drums, totally worthless when pulling a trailer.
Installing the EMPI disk brake conversion was the best thing I ever did to it.
No front brake and still have plenty of stopping power.

Yep, I did the same thing to my trike. Best braking power available. And pretty reasonable priced as well.