Tech Tech Tech, or...So you want to build a trike?

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Next up....

Vw parts.

Picking a donor car.

Two basic types.

Swing axle and irs.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Pre 61 had a split case with no side covers.

No syncro first.

Swing axle.

Made for 25 to 36 hp cars.

Low geared and too weak.

You do not want it for a trike build.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Then in 61 came the tunnel style.

Swing axle.

No split seam.

Two side covers on the differential.

This is the basic design vw used until the end.

But there were multiple changes through the years that can not be seen from the outside.

From 61 unitll mid 66 the trans was still low geared to go with the 40hp engine.

Was fairly strong.

But with the low gearing is not desirable for a highway ride.

Mid 66 until 68 was the long axle swing.

Has taller gearing to go with the larger engines.

Different width syncros that down shift better.

And an 8 bolt heavier ring and carrier.

This would be the most desirable of the swing axles.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Then came the irs rear suspension.

It is a massive improvement on the rear geometry.

Handles better.

Has longer more progressive springs.

Same 2 sided case and the same gear ratios. (some other ratios available for ghia and thing)

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Then the latter years of the beetle was the single side cover.

Internal parts still somewhat interchangable.

Gear ratios changed to a bigger ring and pinion and a lower 4th.

The later 1600 dual ports could pull more gear but still needed the highway rpm for the cooling fan.

This one would probably be the best road performer for a trike.

 

[peteg59]

If I were to build another VW powered trike from scratch, IRS would be the only option I would consider.
Although I've never personally ridden one, the swing axle seems like there would always be handling issues due to camber setup. This in turn leads to potential safety issues, in my opinion.
I suppose there are ways to compensate for that, but IRS trikes look so much more "refined" than their swing predecessors in the finished product.

Due to my physical limitations, I'm running a stock 73 Autostick on my trike.
I'm not sure the final gear ratio on the A/S trans. Out on the open road, at full tilt boogey, it feels like it really needs a 4th gear.

Unfortunately there are nearly no options for the lonely Autostick when it comes to hotrodding it, from what I've experienced.
Doubtful there will ever be any, as the run of A/S in VW history is fairly short...

I've always been attracted to the "Freeway Flyer" trans builds, but the clutch is not doable for me.
They are basically bulletproof, & several gear options are available.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I have not ever been inside an autostick so I dont know first hand. But I have always been told nothing will interchange inside. Looking at it from the outside it makes me think it could have parts related to other vw trans. Still dont really know.

The term freeway flyer is more of a marketing term. It means to change ratio in a specific trans.

It is more of an upgrade to the next newer gearing.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

And a freeway flyer is build of stock components. Might not be stock to the year model.
As in putting a late model 3.88 ring and pinion in an earlier trans that had a 4.12.
Or putting a 4.12 in an even earlier trans that had a 4.37
Or putting a .89 fourth in a box that had a .93 fourth.

 

[peteg59]

Thanks for the info Rex.
I always thought Freeway F. was the name of an aftermarket re-builder that did custom upgrades for customers, as well as selling already "built" boxes.
We learn something everyday:clapping:

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

A freeway flyer very very definitely has a place in a vw trike. We tend to run at least somewhat modified engines, Light weight, and open engines where cooling is not a problem.
A taller geared trans fits in real well.
If or when you buy one ask the questions.
As in
"What makes it a flyer" "what gear ratios" "what is different or changed"
Some will sell a 67 trans to go in a 64 car and call it a flyer. When actually it is a stock later model trans.

Most flyers are a late model 3.88 ring and pinion in an earlier trans.

Some flyers are a taller (.82) fourth gear only.

Then there is the double flyer with 3.88 ring and the .082 fourth.

Then there is mine with aftermarket parts. 3.44 ring, 1.26 third and .82 fourth on splined shafts.
It takes light weight and a stroker motor to pull it.

 

[LarryA]

great thread!

very informative....trike builders pay attention..snu..you are the first one to mention offset variations and their uses. no one seemed to want to talk about offset other than making rake changes...I didn't know what to do...so measured off a Harley wide glide front 2.25in.and started drilling my trees..anyhow thanks so much for this thread! larry

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

So we covered some possible gear ratio changes.
So for a trike we want tall gearing or tall tires.

Myself I am not fond the the super wide tires.
They certainly look cool and make you think it has the 1000hp that tires like that are for.
But in the end they are just a power suck. I am more interested in performance and only run as much tire as a have too.

As long as you do not run slicks and are reasonable with it the stock trans will handle around 100hp before breaking.
At this point it will start shearing drive keys on the straight shafts. Spinning the press on syncro rings. And case flex will chew up ring and pinions.

Billet side covers, hardened keys and welding the syncros on will help keep it together to approaching 200hp (no slicks and drag racing).

After that is splined shafts instead of keyed and 4 spider super-diffs plus the big ribbed "rhino" case.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

So you find an old beetle and strip it down.



Then cut the back end off.



This gives you all the suspension and the engine/trans mounting. All the major mechanical in one peice. All you have to do is start building off of this.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

All you have to do is weld it in square and with the neck centered and correct trail planned out.

And....you have a trike.

So what kinda trike do you want?

Body

No body.

Styers style?



Frame is a single large beam.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

How about a tube frame and no body.



I know of at least one place that makes frame kits or complete welded units.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Ok....checked with admin, so I am gonnna name drop.

Steve at Wild Man Trikes makes some knock down kits and full weld frames.

Back in the day there were several vw trike makers, but not anymore. Steve "cut his teeth" on the VW, but now a days he does a lot of exotic stuff. But he does still make the vw stuff and has some new repop stuff out too.

Such as single beam styers style necks and tie ins.



And the repop body to go with it.



He also does a no body frame a lot like the pic above out of tubing. Also does a mid engine frame (not swedish style)

Yall look Steve up.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Adjusting the rear torsion springs.

Down



Up

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Here is a welded on syncro hub.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

So what yall wanna talk about?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

A few things to think about while considering building a vw trike.

Like said above.....nothing can match how simple it is mechanically. They were plentiful and cheap to get used back in the day.

But.
The last usa imported model was in 79.
So if you were to find the very last beetle imported it would be 38 yrs old.
Most have been crushed now so not plentiful anymore. Then even if you find something complete, it will still need major rebuilding.

They were still made and sold in other countries untill 2004. It could be possible to go to Brazil and buy a running driving beetle. Pay the import duties and ship it here.

On the plus side there is a collector market and a full aftermarket supply of parts available here. But that also means they are not so cheap anymore.

So unless you fancy yourself as a vw guy or just want a retro trike....there are other choices at the local junk yard. None will be as easy to frame up and all will have more stuff to make fit. Radiator and electrical to name a couple. Most any front wheel drive car would be a good donor.