How Heat Management Works

[Jack Klarich]

Heat Management System

The ESPFI systems also incorporate a sophisticated heat management system that operates in

three-phases to keep things cool in extreme conditions.

Phase I: If the ECM detects engine temperature above approximately 300° F while moving or

stationary it reduces the idle speed. A lower idle speed produces fewer combustion events per minute

and that reduces engine heat.

Phase II: If the ECM detects an engine temperature that’s still drifting higher while moving or

stationary it richens the AFR. An increased amount of fuel in the air/fuel mixture has a cooling effect

on the engine.

Phase III: If the ECM detects an engine temperature that’s still drifting higher while moving or

stationary it directs the fuel injectors to skip, (only when the bike is stationary) and not deliver fuel on

every intake stroke. This limits the number of combustion events taking place, which produces less

heat.

The three phases just described function seamlessly, and the rider may not notice the transition from one phase to the next.

I dunno how y'all are checking your temps, I do know my M8 with the Dyno Jet has seen temps up to over 300 degrees, My fan is on, No knocking or loss of power. My plugs are burning light gray with 90 octane gas. The M8 can take this heat better than its cousin the TC IMO The M8 also cools down at least 50 degrees faster than the Tc engines, I can hand touch the heads after about 10 minutes, my temperature will be around the ambient air temp the next time I fire it up, that can be as soon as 1/2 hour later, Nuff Said Enjoy your ride and PLEASE stop worrying JMO

 

[Jack Klarich]

This may not fit in here BUT,

My testing as of today with my home made fork baffle is: I have reduced my head temperature by over 35 degrees.

NOW, I can tell y'all this. The NEW and over engineered{ It is about time IMO} M8 107 does run a lot hotter. However, It can and does take the heat better with the Automotive type knock sensors.

It also {read, from my independent testings] not supported by any one but me, cools down WAYYY moochoo faster with less heat to the pilot and the passenger, this according to my wife The Redhead. I will continue to beta test this and post the findings when I can.

This is not a scientific backed beta test. I do NOT suggest y'all try this. I do have a 7 year warranty. That said, the MOCO and ALL manufacturers of products do NOT scare me yet. Thank y'all 4 ur time 4 reading my posts.



:drama:

 

[IndyBill]

Is this also how the 103 in my wife's 2016 works? Seems like the cylinder cut out happens in any type of traffic. Then it really never cools enough to idle right the rest of the day.

Thanks, Bill

 

[Jack Klarich]

Is this also how the 103 in my wife's 2016 works? Seems like the cylinder cut out happens in any type of traffic. Then it really never cools enough to idle right the rest of the day.

Thanks, Bill

Yup, you can turn this feature off also

Mine comes on @ 288 degrees

My idle goes back to normal

Is your wife blipping the throttle @ this time?

Curious cuz these TBW bikes get a funny memory throttle position real easy

 

[IndyBill]

Thanks for the reply. She does not blip the throttle I think. Just kind of pesky annoyance. If we shut it off will it continue to increase the heat on the motor? I think I need to do the cooling fans.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Thanks for the reply. She does not blip the throttle I think. Just kind of pesky annoyance. If we shut it off will it continue to increase the heat on the motor? I think I need to do the cooling fans.

It will not cool the rear cylinder down with it disabled

Lots of folks do disable it with no problems

Keep the bike rolling in traffic to keep the air flow up

New bikes are shipped with this feature dis abled, The dealer is supposed to show you how to work it

 

[IndyBill]

I bought the bike used so I am not sure how it was set up. When we get home from Fla next week I will take some time to figure it out. Thanks for the info for sure, Bill

 

[MDO]

I know with my Milwaukee 8 in the FW, you know when its on, because that nice, smooth 850 RPM idle goes away.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Couple of comments about heat-

1. An additional heat management strategy that HD has built in to the Twin Cams since 2007 AND into the M8's is that when the ET gets around 250* it begins retarding the timing.

This has a significant effect of reducing power. We saw this very clearly on the dyno with Jacks' 2017 M8 Freewheeler.

The reduced power could also be felt while riding it.

Reference Link HERE.

2. On the Twin Cams, when they are subjected to the factory heat over a period of time, the majority will suffer accelerated engine wear, causing them to feel sluggish power wise. It is not yet known if the M8's will experience the same permanent degradation in power due to the heat.

Since it occurs gradually, 99% of riders do not notice the slow loss of power. There are two ways to know if power has been lost due to heat damage-

a) perform a leak-down test. HD says 10% or more is out of spec, and they will replace under warranty

b) Ride a similar set up, new, and see if it has more power

3. Regardless of whether there has been damage due to heat, ALL HD's...Evo's, Twin Cams, and M8's will run stronger if the heat (ET) is kept between 200* - 230*. There is no way around this, it is simple physics.

Reference Link on Ideal Operating Temperatures HERE

LINK on things that can be done to keep your engine in the ideal operating temp range.

Kevin

 

[Jack Klarich]

When I look at the PV screen and see the ET @ 288 and up to 295 I think I feel a bit of loss of throttle response

However I know my M8 cools down way faster than any TC I owned

That said I will keep riding it and wait for Kevin to come up with more cure

I still aint too scared after watching my M8 on the dyno

It did not blow up then :wave4:

 

[DK Custom Products]

When I look at the PV screen and see the ET @ 288 and up to 295 I think I feel a bit of loss of throttle response

However I know my M8 cools down way faster than any TC I owned

That said I will keep riding it and wait for Kevin to come up with more cure

I still aint too scared after watching my M8 on the dyno

It did not blow up then :wave4:

Hey Jack,

When we had your FW on the dyno we only let it go above 250 that one time, and that was just to notice how much power dropped when doing so...and we did not let it go anymore than 275*.

We already have a good strategy to cool the M8's. Lots of folks are running them with good results.

Tank Lift is good for a 10-15 drop.

CDW's are good for another 10* drop.

Oil Filter relo is good for good for another 10* drop.

Cooling fans, like the ones you can get from Zook, are good for a Big drop in temps in traffic, and a very respectable drop for the rear cylinder while at speed.

You already have an EBS, PV and an oil cooler. However, if you add a second oil cooler, you should see an additional 20* drop

Between all of the above you can get your temps down to where they should not be exceeding 230*, which is the max ideal temp.

The nice thing about HD's is that even if you do not cool them down, they very rarely blow up....instead they just get sluggish power-wise, but they keep on running.

Kevin

 

[MDO]

I have some questions on your cooling suggestions.

What height tank lift do you recommend for the 2017 Freewheeler? I was thinking 2"

Do you have any info on the benefits of a cooling fan for the OEM oil cooler?

I had the coolflow fan dealer installed & it does a good job, but I feel its more for rider cooling, vise engine cooling. Any thoughts?

 

[DK Custom Products]

I have some questions on your cooling suggestions.

What height tank lift do you recommend for the 2017 Freewheeler? I was thinking 2"

Do you have any info on the benefits of a cooling fan for the OEM oil cooler?

I had the coolflow fan dealer installed & it does a good job, but I feel its more for rider cooling, vise engine cooling. Any thoughts?

On the Tank Lift, 1.5" is all that is needed to get cooling for the engine. Higher may reduce buffeting a bit more, and will show your chrome more, and make it a bit easier to clean. Just a matter of preference. If you go 2" or higher, just make sure to check for clearance before ordering...how to do that is in the link above.

Your 2017 factory oil cooler should already have a cooling fan. This is good for slow moving or stopped riding, in that it will keep the oil cooler effective, even when not moving. See diagram at this link-

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche...=hdmc&a=1160&b=6&c=0&d=2017 FLRT FREEWHEELER [MC]%20COOLANT%20-%20PUMP/HOSES

You are correct, the HD Coolflow Fan is more for rider/passenger comfort. It pulls the trapped heat down and away, instead of letting it waft up to the legs. It is not very effective at actually cooling the engine.

Here are a couple of Reports on the subject that you may find useful.

REPORT 1

REPORT 2

Kevin

 

[Jack Klarich]

Thanks Kevin for all you do here

My next purchase from you will be a tank lift

My buddy @ HD says he stops tuning @ 240 degrees

Enuff heat will kill more power and shorten ring life ,pistons valves and gaskets will suffer also

Along with scored cylinders and warped heads

The engine case decks are stout we should not have any worries with the lower end, mind you the jury is out on the cam set up thus far JMO