My Trike

[Rmitchell55]

A tank hanging down that low with no protection is just asking for some type of road hazard to go through the bottom.

 

[peteg59]

A tank hanging down that low with no protection is just asking for some type of road hazard to go through the bottom.

^....This 100%.

Especially in thin wall Aluminum construction!!!!:AGGHH:

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Meh.....

Ever look at how low some gas tanks are in cars?

I do like your design more than that under the torsion beam possum tank. Maybe some skid plate under it.

Heck....my drain plug is 3-1/2 inches off the ground.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

true

Yes, I do agree the idea of the tank in that position is questionable, but there is no real place for it. I could get small fuel cells and locate them in a few tight areas, have to join them together, but still not much total volume that way. Looked at the idea of just putting a tank in the old area, but again not what I liked and wanted.

Yes, I wanted more capacity to go on longer rides. Some get to ride where gas stations are close, in NV you can go for many miles before you see fuel again. Not that I am superman and can ride that long, we all need to stretch the legs, use the head, and just get our land legs back under ourselves.

So what material am I using for the skid plate, not sure yet, kind a thought that steel diamond plate might be good, but yes, FOR SURE, that tank location requires a skip plate. Thought I would make the skid plate come out wider so that it created a platform on each side, and than I wonder about a bit of windshield down low. Front tire throw off needs to be deflected, so that has crossed my mind. First things first, need to have the tank welded together, if all fits correctly, than the skid plate as in my mind this would be used to also help support the tank and not just all the weight be on the upper mounting supports. I thought of a swing plate, hinged or pinned at the front by the forks, and than one on each side back near the torsion bars. Pull the rear pins and the skid plate swings down, pull the front pin and the skid plate is total out of the way, Stupid idea, or should all be welded solid to frame of trike so that max strength and protection is provided.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

I do agree it would not take much to be on the road again, but I do want to be riding a solid ride, not my "may it work" or " it will get me by for now" type of trike. I spent years chasing the wallet trying to just keep a car working for the family. I am a bit tired of that work, even thou I find myself doing it all the time, but no need for it now.

I am not rich, who is, but I can afford to do it up right. Yes, if that is the case why not just buy a running trike ?

I have thought about it hard. So many nice looking unit's out there. All look so nice and the test rides were enjoyable. I just seem to have more of a desire to have this toy that requires my time and mind so all get's together nicely.

Okay I spent 1K for the tike 3 years ago, yes I worked slow at first, new home and wife has a crazy to do list, but have gotten of 3/4 of it done, so now I have my time for what I want, kinda, LOL

Any favorite part houses online that members use or brand name replacement parts. I know there is cheap VW parts and stuff, and if I am going to do this, well do it right or just go home. Something my dad used to always say to me.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I also like to have something I have a vested interest in. Something that is mine alone.

Ok. as for me I have a bit different of a style than most and I also don't mind making something from scratch. I also forget that everyone don't have free reign of a full metal working shop.

But what I would do....

Tank

Build a sub frame carriage that holds the tank and serves as the under protection. Then lift that up and bolt it to the frame. I envision round tube in a double down tube design that looks a lot like a motorcycle frame front section. Square blocks of drilled tapped steel (nut plates) for the attachment that weld to the frame.

I am not trying to tell you to do it this way, just throwing out ides. You seem like the type that is going to collect ideas and make your own decision.

Brakes

First off drums do work. Good drums. Quality shoes. Larger front wheels cylinders adapted into the back. Correctly sized pedal length/ratio and master cyl bore diameter.

And you can come to a screeching stop anytime you please.

Disc main upgrade is fade. If you are going to haul it down from high speed or stop a trailer then a they are a big plus. Secondly they are easier to work on, you don't have to take that big nut off to change pads.

If you change to disc you MIGHT have to change master also. It depends on what is on it now.

As a side note.....you can get and/or make different bolt patterns for the wheels......no adapters.

I like disc, and I use the "no parking brake" type. they are the front type caliper with larger bore and have more force than the ones meant for the rear.

Remember on the original car the front to rear bias was something like 80/20 with the front doing most of the braking. the trike is more like 10/90 with the rear doing almost all the braking. the front brake on a rear engine and light front end trike does not do much at all. but is a legal requirement in a lot of states. Check you local laws.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

A lot of great ideas, and it is a matter of what I can do and afford to do, plus you are correct " I do seem to do what I want or like ", but age has taught me to be open to others and what they have to say. My mind can get tunnel vision and take me off in a way that is not beneficial.

I do like your idea, not sure of all the terms, but do have a visual idea. It was something I drew out, than went to the hinge idea, and so on. Bolting it up into position has still been my favorite idea, plus I want to build something and weld it together, like you said, so I can see what I did with my hands and effort. Yes I do love this part, as I got into making wood flutes so that I could use my hands and what artistic talent I have. Part is wood working, part is sculpturing the head piece, like carving out animals the most.

Okay the plans are getting together, but where do I start ?

I feel the rear end getting rebuilt with new rubbers should be first. ( I already rebuilt the rear brakes, no miles on them yet, and I put in a new master cylinder, upgraded it a bit to a non leaking reservoir design.)

So not that I thought about it, but braking ratio of the car design to a trike, I see that difference, and now wonder if that was considered when it was built. As far as I know it was just a stock VW master cylinder. I was told by the old Napa store owner that I had a Super Beetle rear end, at least my brakes. I asked why he knew, and he told me about he younger years of owning a few of them. It had the wrong size shoes on it when I got it, so now I think I screwed up.............

From what you are saying, the front shoes would be a little wider and maybe longer a little ? at least wider correct?

When I took it apart it had some shim's involved pushing the drum outward more, dah, to allow wider shoes, and my mind said it was done to make what they had work, not the proper shoes, so I found what was suppose to be on there, and so yes I had to remove the shim's so went back together correctly...see what happens when you really do not know all that you think you do.

need to run for now. Thank you for the valuable input, it is needed for sure.

I am stuck on this, I keep thinking for all to run correctly as designed, the engine is suppose to set level.

I mean looking at the seam of the top plate of the carburetor, should this not be level, or take the air breather off and set a level across the top of the carb. ? and to do this the rear end needs to be a bit lower so that the front forks will be to long, nor the front end lifted to high to achieve the level engine.......am I being over critical ?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

As far as the rear brakes....

If you got shoes that fit the drums proper then you did not mess up. Do not put front SHOES on the rear.

As the only mechanical difference in a super beetle and a standard is the strut front suspension (struts vs torsions).

A super sure does drive/handle better and has the best FRONT brakes ever put on a beetle (larger wheel CYLINDER).

If you wanted larger than beetle rear drums....then type 3 wagon drums.

It has been ages for me.....so old memories here. Get a set of super beetle front brake CYLINDERS and put them on the back.

They are not a direct bolt on. What I remember is slotting the bolt holes, stretching the brake line bends, and the cylinder being upside down and more difficult to bleed.

BUT a huge increase of force applied to the shoe.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

As far as levelness.....

Rear axles level or near level between cv joints. Zero Camber with level axles. It is going to camber a small amount in and out as the suspension goes up and down across level. This is not a wishbone like a corvette so it does have geometry changes but nothing drastic like a swing axle.

Toe zero to ever so slightly toed in, never toed out. Toed in a little helps with it wanting to go straight. I like mine at zero toe.

Then if the engine is far from level then it would be front end up and down to level the engine. They are quite forgiving and do not have to be dead level. Pulley end high is better than pulley end low.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Okay, I will get the new bushing's installed on the spring plate and arms. Never bought a bug book, so will have to look it up, but after I get that done and new wheel axle bearings, than I will get the axle set and the spring plates adjusted right, and we will see how that works and how the trike sets. I will run the brakes I have until I have nothing to do and that is what I am working on, not a must item yet, just when I want to stop, right?

What I read and was told, basically there was to be marks on the spring plate that aligned with the mark on the wheel arm mounting bracket. I did not find any on the right side, but tire wear shows it was near 0 toe in and 0 camber, yet the left tire shows inner edge wear. Major camber issue, or Toe in was to much in, and ones eyes said it had to much toe in on it. Now the left side has alignment marks, notch on spring plate, and weld beads on the when arm mounting plate. So many would think to align the notch and bead when putting back together.

Big question, can I check and set my Toe in on the rear tires in my garage ? I thought about this, and all I thought of was chalking out a large T square on the floor, roll the trike rear end over the head of the T align the wheel axle to the line, put the front tire's center line on the leg line of the T. Now if the rear is really out of align I might have one axle over the line and the other side off, forward of the line for severe toe in, behind the line would be negative toe in, dead on the line should be zeroed in.

If we are thinking about tracking of the tires, than shouldn't a Trike be aligned ?

Or do we go to a tire shop and see if they can align it ? I do have an older shop in town that I think might be able to do it, only because I see VW's and buggies in the yard.

Camber, I was just putting the level up against the side of the tire, or the framing square, looking at gap or how close to level it was. Right this moment the right side is level, zero camber, or very slight positive, but my torsion bar is set strong, not the ideal position from what I have learned, but I will get it right eventually.

Time to get some yard work done, take care and ride safe everyone.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Big question, can I check and set my Toe in on the rear tires in my garage ? I thought about this, and all I thought of was chalking out a large T square on the floor, roll the trike rear end over the head of the T align the wheel axle to the line, put the front tire's center line on the leg line of the T. Now if the rear is really out of align I might have one axle over the line and the other side off, forward of the line for severe toe in, behind the line would be negative toe in, dead on the line should be zeroed in.

Once you feel you have the trike square on your floor

Run a string from the front axle to the rear tire on each side of the trike (tape the string on the tires at the same height)

Now measure each side and write it down

This will give you the setback on the wheels ( check and adjust camber before checking the set back)

Camber will throw all your readings off

Changing the setback to as near zero as possible will change your thrust angle of your alignment

This should make your trike track straighter and less tire wear

As far as the toe adjustment, there are several ways to do this

You can measure the inside front edge of the rear tires at the exact same height

Now, do the same for the rear of the tires ( I like to chalk a line with a square or string to make sure I get the same height )

Once you know this figure you can adjust your toe, you should be real close when you are done

Remeasure again what are your measurements? If right you should see the value you want

Sight down the tires, you may have to lay down to do this

If you are toed in you should see (from the back of the trike) both inside edges of the tires slightly in, if not re measure and do it again

This is a poor mans way of setting toe

 

[grandpanystrom61]

got a head of myself

Okay, needed that info, at least a confirmation on my idea about it all.

I will get things marked out on the floor, bring in the trike, and than do the replacement of suspension bushings on the control arms, open the rear drums and see what I do have, look for old brake parts to see if I undid what should have been left alone. But who would have thought that front brakes would be put on the rear end, only makes sense to some trike builders, now me. Memory is not my best trait, that is the main reason I need to look again, plus I need to get access so I can replace the bearings and hub seals. Than as I get all back together I can adjust and align, make sure all is true, recheck it, and than tighten all up.

I say look for old brake parts, mainly because I do not remember if I replaced slave cylinders, it would have been the smart thing to do, I just need to confirm what I did, medications and medical issues screw me at times.

I really wish I knew 100% what year this rear end I have, so will try to take pic's to see if helps anyone identify what it might be, if it matters, does the exact year matter on wheel bearings ? or just the general 5 year area of production ? Engine numbers said it was produced in Aug73 and sold to public in 74 out of Mexico, some of the photo's of work being done on VW's, lead me to the years of 72 to 74 super beetle rear end, than the comment that the super beetle was first to use the dual port master cylinder, and they also had self adjusting brake design. Like I said, what I read if my mind kept the facts right.

Loads of info and help already, wow, mind is swimming in it all, but I know where to start and it is all down in print now, so I can come back and read it all over.

I am so excited to have found this site, help, and info, now I have the help I needed to move forward successfully.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I use long straight edges like you are using the floor lay out lines. Same theory.

I also hang a plumb bob from the bottom of steering neck center. Then adjust to get the track centered to the neck.

And again. The trans and engine are the same for a super or a standard. So difficult to tell there. What makes a super be a super is the front suspension.

If it is really a mexi beetle then it is unlikely it was a super. But anything that was super specific was cut off and thrown away when it was cut up to become a trike.

Anything I think I can see from the other pics makes me think mid 70's USA std beetle.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Home from work.....

Ok I wrote about trans Id before.

https://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/35579-Tech-Tech-Tech-or-So-you-want-to-build-a-trike/page5

That will put you into the right type.

As far as I remember....all the stub axle bearings were the same on beetles. Busses ect had other bearings.

Finding the exact identity of your trans...... well maybe. It is over 40 yrs old and there is no telling what kind of mix and match parts it has been repaired with. You can look up the serial number.

All the numbers on vw parts that are raised cast in numbers.....are the mold or casting number from before before machining and being assigned to an application. Those numbers are just a little better than useless. The numbers you look for are stamped INTO (Not raised) from the casting. These will tell you something. Find it and we will hunt it up. At least you will know what year the trans case came from. So many different years of parts will fit together that it could be a hodge podge like mine is.

The engine.

It looks to be a later style 1600 based engine. That is what you want for sure. All the aftermarket parts are geared for this engine. Also that casting number AS41 is the better of engine cases.

Yours is not stock. The only engine with dual carbs were not an upright type one beetle engine. Those are probably not stock type solex carbs. It takes a serious carb guru to turn stock solex into a dual setup. Those look like aftermarket Kadrons to me.

The Mexico on the case could be that it is a replacement case or engine. A lot of the repair parts came from the plants in Mexico and Brazil.

Does the case have the fuel pump mounting flange? If not then would be after 75 model.

That sloped top fan housing sure looks good. I even wanted one years ago. But they don't work well but should be fine on an open engine. It also means the oil cooler is not on top of the engine anymore. A remote cooler and oil lines must be somewhere under the back.

Looks like someone did some work with that engine. No telling what could be inside that.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

getting there

Got the axle nuts off, not sure if all is set up correct, so I took pic's of things as I took off the drum.

First things first, that stamped number on the trans is AH 4506468, and I have to add that it is a 5 speed, was told that is aftermarket upgrade, not sue myself.

Okay give up on the super beetle idea, but that is what I looked up to see the rear brakes, those pics looked like mine. Now a few pics. Not, guess again they were not saved in the proper format.

The carbs are Solex H40/44EIS, that is what they say on them, plus when they were rebuilt that is what was discussed as the model of carb, as I had to get a new body for one of them.

I am off to figure out this picture thing, some where there is a way to control how to save them when they are taken.

Again thanks for all the input, oh yeah, I had to cut off those mounts that they welded on the torsion tube/spring plate that the head lights where mounted on. If my pics would work I could show all what I found, a pre threaded hole in a flat area in a very usable location. Thinking of using it for attaching the mounting bracket for the head light. Have to get my pics up.

Started on the right side first.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Ok that would be an 68 to 72 trans case.

But as a 5 speed conversion it is super heavily modified. That was a several thousand dollar modification. Nice! Hang onto that like it is gold.

A picture of a super trans/axle/brakes would look just like yours as they are the same anyway (year vs same year).

But now we know it is heavily modified and is likely a mish mash of different year parts. Absolutely nothing wrong with that really. But it does make it hard on someone newish to vw to be able to identify and repair.

Like mine....once I am gone no-one will know what all the parts are. Even a vw guru. Half stuff ain't even vw to start with. You get the idea......lots of learning and researching to do.

That is probably an older aftermarket dual carb setup. There are several clones over the years. From empi, brosol, Kadron. Then the original aftermarket solex.

These are not stock and are made up for the dual configuration. Good carbs for a mild to medium hot rod engine. If you ever need to tune or change jets or parts then most people refer to these as Kadrons even if they are made by one of the others.

The parts and gasket kits interchange. All still plentiful and readily available.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

moving along

This awesome getting some confirmation of what I have to work with, what it is, and a idea of it's value.

I can see it is something that is worth my efforts, meaning I can possibly get it back, but I have grandchildren that would be pleased to get it later.

Okay, took time, but figured out this new phone and I can only take a set size of photo's, with the smallest setting I can use the crop tool to get them with in the limit range so I can post them, at least most of them.

I have to remove the lamp mounting tab off the torsion tube, used the angle grinder to do the job.

and the left side once removed still need smooth out that welded area.

But now what do I do, re weld them back in place when the other work is done ?

I found these mounting holes, tapped and ready to be used.

I just happened to have the bolt size I needed, but now I wonder about vibration of rear end effecting the new mount. I measured 7 3/4 inch's needed to extend the lamp out to basic same area, do we think that 1/4 inch steel would be firm at that length, maybe it is 3/16 thick. I guess just try it and see.

Here are the brake parts left from when I corrected them a few years back, at least I thought that is what I was doing.

Now I do not remember where those large washer/spacers went, no paint on them, so I believe they where on the inside of the drum on the spline. and there is this spacer on the outside along with 4 shim's on each side that are against the bearing.

I do remember the left side had wider brake pad's on it and bad slave cylinder, and it was shimmed up more than the right side. Why only one set of brake shoes in the old parts, kept those that where the same size as the new ones. Shim's, think I split up the thin ones on the axle spline, 4 on each side, because it keeps the drum from pushing all the way in against the bearing, plus it looks like to keep the seal from damage, and than the drum has to align over the brake pads correctly for proper operation. Does any of this look normal or correct ? Out side spacer seems to be taking up open space on the spline keeping the axle nut on the threaded area and inline with carter pin hole.

My tank, it is a temp set up, getting the shut off valve in a few days.

and here is the instrument panel I did and Belle's new goggles She was to be my wife's new friend, she is, but she picked me as her buddy. She is always with me, at my feet, or sleeping up against me. Ever fight with a dog for cover's ? Belle watch's me and is always making me take breaks, or even naps if needed. My condition does limit me and I can push myself to far to much, Belle seems to be my care taker these days. Not sure if she will ride on the trike with me, but she loves here goggles.

I found my data from my 1st compression test, so I will check valves clearance, adjust if needed, and than perform another compression test. I need to compare them after I had screwed up the timing with old distributor. Than I will finish dismantling the trailing arm so it can be removed for bushing replacement, oh and get new bearings for each axle.

Everyone have a great day, and thank you for your time DeathbySnuSnu.

 

[paws]

Glad you’ve got Belle to help! Always nice to have a buddy nearby.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Wait.....What the....

Back up and take a pic of those brake drums.

That looks like early short axle short spline swing axle drums with spacers and extra shims to make them fit.

I think there were some Thing drums for irs that were wide 5. But they would be long spline as in no big spacer on the outside under nut.

This does work though. Some people adapt early 5 lugs to a later 4 lug irs to make a car have an older classic look.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

And....

I just snap pics with the phone then use an app (image shrink) to make them smaller.