My Trike

[DeathBySnuSnu]

We had some severe rain the past couple night.

Right now it is cloudy and almost drizzling. Hot hot and muggy.

I gotta patch up a mower and cut my grass this weekend. Already almost knee high in spots.

I think CB performance has stock type springs.

The bearings are probably regular industrial sizes. Look for numbers on the edges. Something like 6208 2rs....not saying that is the number....just an example. Then an industrial supply or bearing specialty store will have them for a lot less than the car parts store.

Yeah....mine is purdy far out there. Very little functions as vw intended anymore.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Looking it over I see what I had looked up, kinda, here is the picture.

View attachment 55687

There is nothing on the back side of the fan shroud.

and if I remember correctly, that case vent box is suppose to be cleaned every so often, and my mind thinks there is some type of filter material used inside it.

View attachment 55688

Taken from right side of engine, and the first pic was taken from the left side (3 and 4) cylinders.

I have no idea if it has ran all this time with out a oil cooler, I highly doubt it because they did take a few trips on it, so I have heard, so I will have to go with the fact that the old cooler was removed because of leaks, or I pray that was the case.

Now I got to get a new one. From what I read I would not benefit a lot with a external mounted cooler, but would do better with a full flow external oil filter set up with just the stock oil cooler.

If this is a aftermarket fan shroud, did the copy the venting and flanges of the original one ? I just read how well the Germans design the fan shroud to cool the engine, and why the internal cooler in the shroud caused the #3 cylinder to run hotter than others, lack of air flow to cool it, so I have learned a lot today.

We can do so much to look cool, think we are doing the engine better, and the reality is it all just cost money and really does nothing, sometimes create problems rather than fix them....

Good day everyone, just trying to get this back together. One thing just kept leading to another, but it is done to this point.

Moved breather box and rerouted venting hoses, much cleaner looking, this opened up the space in front of the fan shroud input air flow, was able to mount bracket nicely and center the oil cooler with it a few inch's away from the fans opening so air flow is not totally blocked by the cooler.

Now this lead to the fuel lines being rerouted, because of cooler mounting, and I noticed a dual port fuel regulator... is this something that is suppose to be on a dual carb engine ????

The current dial single port fuel regulator is new, at least when I had the carbs rebuilt a few years back, remember just minimal run time in the drive way on things since I have owned the trike.

Okay just want to get what is suppose to be here so all works well. So a fuel auto shut off for the electric fuel pump is needed, but if one looks at the above pics the can see how all was squeezed in front of the fan shroud area, and if I have to correct the fuel lines, I believe for the best performance that the fuel lines should be the same length from the T after the fuel regulator............here is were I wondered about the dual port fuel regulator.

Yes all ran before, fine as far as I know, so is there a real need to change the fuel regulator ? I was just looking at how it is set up and wondered how it kept a even pressure to both carb.'s, but here is where I realized that the fuel lines should be equal distances from the T block to the carb.'s so that it may have a better chance at having a equal PSI in the fuel lines.

Over thinking it ???????

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Yes all ran before, fine as far as I know, so is there a real need to change the fuel regulator ? I was just looking at how it is set up and wondered how it kept a even pressure to both carb.'s, but here is where I realized that the fuel lines should be equal distances from the T block to the carb.'s so that it may have a better chance at having a equal PSI in the fuel lines.

Over thinking it ???????

I am not sure about VW's, but, most carbs have floats and the inlet pressure just fills the bowls, then the floats shut the fuel down. Not sure if a slight difference in pressure would be a huge deal. I'm sure one of the VW guys will chime in.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

All these small carbs.....even the dual throated weber's are small.....they all have small floats. They will not take but a couple psi before over riding.

So yes you must have correct pressure. There are some low pressure pumps....some internal regulated pumps.....some regulators.

Any combination that gets you to pressure should be ok.

That little round dial type thing is not a true regulator.....more of an adjustable orifice or restrictor. I have used one before and was not pleased.

What is the other one?

 

[grandpanystrom61]

I think I may have gotten lost on the parts website, to many buttons and things, LOL

I did not like them as they were rated at a higher PSI, 3 to 9 and 5 to something, and now I think they may have been for EFI system, **** I do not know, or remember what site, maybe CB performance or carid.

This current fuel pump is new basically, just replaced what was on the trike, and they said I would need a new regulator and to set it to 1.5 psi. Like I said it runs and I noticed no issue, but running only in drive way right now.

Those low pressure self regulating fuel pumps are expensive, do they also need a auto shut off relay ?

Or just get what I have mounted secure and centered, get on the road and run it and see what it does or does not do, than go from there......... or is getting this corrected ( better regulator-even if means new fuel pump or self regulated pump.. idea is it better to eliminate the issue that will arise now, or later when it happens.

Okay the fuel pump I have is a Facet that is 12volt, nothing about what psi range it works at, but the box has a sticker on it that says "Legal in California only for racing vehicles, not permitted on highways" so I think it maybe to much and with that dial regulator, maybe not the best. Change it or pressure test line before carb to see what is really there ?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The little faucet "clicker" pump is a favorite for small engines. 3 to 4 psi usually.

If what you have seems to work then just check the psi at carbs. Equal length is not critical but equal psi is.

I would on/off the pump with the ignition switch.

If the tank is higher than carbs I would have a shut off valve....preferably an electric that operates with the pump.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Getting back on track

I did not mean to throw a curve ball, but as I was having to reroute the fuel lines I just thought about what I had read, see if I could do any more justice to the fuel system.

Okay for now, I do have the tank highest point, not ideal, but it works for now. Two feet or so after the line leaves the tank is a filter, changeable one, and than the on/off manual flow cut off valve. I have not ordered the electric shut off relay for the fuel pump, not yet, still trying to make sure I get what I need. I do think I will upgrade the fuel regulator to a better functioning one.

Excuse me... I did have to slip out of state yesterday, we had to go help out a friend, just a few hours drive, all is well.

I have to go back to the bearing shop, just do not understand how I was given the wrong bearings. I took the old ones with me so I could make sure I would get the right bearings. I hope to get that resolved today, maybe get them reset into the trailing arm and get moving forward again.

Again thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate the ability to chat with others and get their feedback and idea's.

Have a great day.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I will sketch out some explanations and descriptions about fuel pumps and put it over in tech tech tech.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

I did get things ordered that was needed. Kind funny not all was in one place, but it is done.

Things will come to me a few days apart, but it gives me time to put the new parts on as they come. It is funny that the bearings I need first, well they will be here first.

I really want to get rid of that stinger exhaust system, had to remove it all just so I could get in and clean up that fuel pump mounting area, old nasty gasket and goop, but all done and back together.

I can spend tomorrow looking for a fuel pressure gauge so I can test the system, I just want to make sure I am getting the correct pressure to the carb's.

Crappy weather for me for a few days, so I am not missing out on any good riding weather, not yet at least, LOL

Everyone have a good evening.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

A 4 into 1 and a stinger are the most performing way to go.

Sometimes those upright buggy stingers look right and sometimes not.

I personally do not like it on yours at all.

How loud do you want it? I like being loud and obnoxious......lol

The buggy dual cannons are a good looker for a trike. But they are paired wrong.....not a header at all....but are a free flowing exhaust.

Maybe even consider a side winder? If you want less noise.



Or a tri mil?

 

[grandpanystrom61]

The current exhaust is made by Tri Mil. I do like how it sounds, not super loud, but load enough to be heard coming and going that is for sure.

I think it is more the fact that it covers the face of the engine, very hard to get in behind it, so most the time I need to unbolt it and shift it around out of my way to get the work done, and than if I get the tank down up front like I want, that back area will be were I mount a little cargo carrier. Just not a good place for the heat of the exhaust, not where I want it.

Now instantly I seen my error. Manual cut off valve in fuel line is first after tank, than the in line fuel filter. That way you can turn off supply of fuel when you need to change the filter itself, Duh......... wake up Andy.

I was over in tech tech tech land and I was looking over the fuel system drawings, very helpful to see it drawn out and the options that one may do. That is awesome you took the time to put it up, helps me, and I am sure it will help many others.

So I am getting a little confused, is that solenoid also the electrical cut off switch to the fuel pump ? I see you can manually set the PSI for what you need, but my mind says why the wires ?

Or if the switch is normally closed, no flow with no power, so if it is wired to the fuel pump power supply, when fuel pump is on the solenoid gets power and opens for flow of fuel. The adjustment is what controls the PSI going to the carbs, but I do not see how this cuts off power to the fuel pump when the pump is not needed because line pressure is as needed.

Or is the fuel pump to run all the time, pressure soleniond opens and closes when pump is on, regulated fuel flows to carbs, but this is why for the over pressure return line, ideally back to tank if possible ?

back in a few.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

lost and found

And I thought my mind was alert more in the morning, not as much as I thought.

Okay, read things over slowly, this electric solenoid is just a valve, can be used in place of the manual cut off valve. It can handle the 0 to 101 psi line pressure, but it is not a pressure regulator.

I need to go look again.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

That valve was just an example.

A bit pricey but has the technical specs.

Ok....so you are asking how to turn the pump and/or valve on and off?

The pump probably draws to many amps to run directly through the ignition switch.

So you need a relay to handle the load.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

That first example of the fuel system, well I get real confused with the regulator at the end of the flow, as I see it the carbs would feel the pressure of what the fuel pump puts out, not what the pressure regulator is controlling it at.

I still have not found a pressure regulator that has a bypass port, just in and out ports, I just think I have looked in the wrong places.

The trike never had a return line to the tank. It just ran from tank to electric fuel pump, than the Empi pressure regulator, than this T fitting so that fuel can flow to each carb.

I can see the point of the fuel getting warmed up if looped back to low pressure side of the fuel supply to the pump, probably not an issue with the open air flow in that area on this trike. I think one would just try it, if vapor lock occurs than one might have to route it all differently.

So, from the tank to a cut off valve (maybe electric solenoid or manual type valve ) than to the fuel filter and into the fuel pump. From here high pressure fuel goes into the fuel pressure regulator and the output is the lower controlled pressured fuel which is than routed to the carb.'s ( this were I really got lost with the regulator at the end of the flow in example one in the tech tech tech thread, and also I only have the single supply port on the carb's.

So if I can find such a regulator that has the bypass port, than I would just loop the bypass fuel back to the low side of the fuel pump, but my mind says to bring the bypass fuel back into the system as far away from the pump, like right after the fuel filter. It does take up a little more fuel line, but this might also help mix any warmer fuel with more cooler fuel so one can help eliminate a vapor lock up from happening. I say routing the bypass line right back into my current tank would not be worth the effort. The tank will be were the warmest fuel is, at least that is what I think with it being mounted up high in the back like it is.

But I did make a note of this return line on the other tank drawing I have so that it is not forgotten in the future.

I need a break mentally, plus time for meds, and to take care of a few other things, I will be back soon.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

A blocking style regulator does work but is not as steady and even of pressure as you have to dead head the pump to stop flow.

Controlling something this low of psi is more troublesome than higher pressure systems.

http://www.jegs.com/s/tech-articles/how-blocking-style-and-bypass-style-regulators-work.html

 

[grandpanystrom61]

That little bypass regulator (525 series) is expensive, but I did read and study the two types to see and understand the difference. Feel I got set up for that high price tag. I have not ordered it, have to talk myself into it, and still I would need a auto shut off type switch/relay for the fuel pump, unless it is to run constantly. I am a bit off today, think I need a break. time to go feed Grazer and set by the pond.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

The by pass regulator is a pricey one, need to look at other suppliers first for the best price before ordering one.

I will get back to this, trying to do to many things at once gets me chasing my tail to much. I am tapping new threads right now for the new oil temperature sensor. I had to get a smaller thread size than the first I bought, thought it was going to just replace the relief valve plug, but no cooler meant more work and making things as I go.

I will have a in line oil temperature sensor that I can place in the return line from the oil cooler before it goes back into the case. The cost to make it is near 50.00, the tap and drill bit set I bought for the fuel pump vent, so I did not add that to the cost of the material for the oil sensor mount. It is all I can think to call it.

Everyone please enjoy your day.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

what I finished up today.

Good afternoon, so I spent the morning finishing out the tapping of this bushing, cleaned everything up super clean, than put it all together and installed it. Now to fill the cooler with oil first, than connect the coolers input hose and fill the engine with fresh oil.

New factory oil pressure springs where installed yesterday, and now the oil temp. sensor is inline on the return flow of oil from the cooler before it goes back into the engine.

Bearings came in the mail today, so I hope to get that done this rainy weekend, and maybe the Trike back together.



right side view.



left side and a view of the inline sensor.



I used the wheelie bar mounting bolts to also secure the uprights on each side for

the cooler. I ran a cross brace to each upright and attached the cooler to the cross

brace, of course after I made mounting brackets for the cooler so I could do that.

A bit worn out, but thinking of the bearings and how I will set the new ones, I was thinking of using a bearing drive punch, can borrow the set from the local parts store.

Or do I just freeze the new grease packed bearings, so they contract, and than set them ?

Never done a VW before, do they tape back in easy, or is time to get them pressed in ?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

From what I remember....it is two of a more normal bearing and is not unusually tight. Unlike those wide one piece bearings in front wheel drive cars that take a big press to put in.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Yes, they were easy bearings to remove and install. I think I got the new ones in quicker than the old ones out. More time with clean up and getting all ready for the new bearings.

I did have some issues getting it back together, new parts are tight, so first I had to set the trailing arm on the hub assembly and than put the bushing end into position and the hex bolt.

We will find out soon how much this helped correct the old issues.

New air shocks should be hear today, once installed I can get the trike off the jack stands. For now I think I will just get a pressure gauge installed inline so I can monitor the line pressure to the carb.'s, I just want to be able to ride around some this summer, see what the trike is about, I think that is a upgrade I should worry about later when I do my tank upgrade.

I can get all mapped out and drawn up to what is needed and how all is getting mounted and wired in.

The temp. tank on the back so high up, if my rules of plumping are correct, for every foot the source is raised higher than the output, the output flow is at 1 lb. per foot of pressure, so guess just divide by 12 to get psi?

My point is that my fuel system is set up so it has it's own gravity force, not on purpose, just a flaw in doing something with out truly thinking it totally out or not truly knowing what you are doing, but the members at this site really do share info and help others figure it out. Awesome everyone.