Transmission Oil drained into Primary Case

[droptine42]

I have a 2016 Tri-glide and just discovered all of my transmission fluid drained into my primary case ruining the transmission and burned the clutches. What is the cause for this to happen? Bike only has 20,000 miles. Thanks

 

[MDO]

Sorry to hear that. Is it under warranty?

Harley is aware of the problem, as it has been going on for years. I have read if you ride at high RPM's, it will do this, but I have not confirmed that.

I would discuss it with your HD dealer & have them contact the MOCO for a remedy.

 

[droptine42]

Thanks for the input. Warranty ran out in March however the Harley Dealership is acting like this is the first time they have ever seen this problem and saying the transmission vent is probably stopped up and the cause of the issue.

Sorry to hear that. Is it under warranty?

Harley is aware of the problem, as it has been going on for years. I have read if you ride at high RPM's, it will do this, but I have not confirmed that.

I would discuss it with your HD dealer & have them contact the MOCO for a remedy.

 

[rhino 2]

Thanks for the input. Warranty ran out in March however the Harley Dealership is acting like this is the first time they have ever seen this problem and saying the transmission vent is probably stopped up and the cause of the issue.

Im not going to say your dealer is lying , But Harley knows about it...

My dealer knows., And he has at least two M8's with that problem , I just had my 5k oil change done and they the dealer and Harley ask me to bring it back after i put another thousand miles, So they can drain and measure the oil in both the primary and transmission.. :Shrug:.....May 2018 Motorcycle Consumer News [MSN] has something about that in the letters section page #5....

 

[pcombe]

If the vent stopped up it may have created enough pressure to blow the seal on the tranny, that would dump the oil into the primary case.

kinda hard to see it burning the clutch. At least on my 89 glide the oils are too similar.

Trans. Metal shavings might be a game changer but clutch plates and spacers are relatively cheap.

clutch basket may be OK, I wouldn't doubt it until i seen it?

Question, HOW did the vent get plugged? vent hose etc? And who caused it to plug?

Was the vent actually plugged?

Hook a hose to it and blow on it, If you can blow through it the vent wasn't plugged at the tranny top cover.

Can you blow through the vent hose to see if it was kinked or somehow collapsed ?

Gotta wonder about the seal its self? also might be hard to tell if it was installed correctly now?

Tranny's going to be an expensive fix if you have to pay for it even if you do the repairs yourself.

 

[droptine42]

Waiting to hear from the Harley Shop as to what the root cause but they said the same thing tranny vent hose. However I am starting to find out Harley has known about this issue since September 2017 due to a seal issue. It's going to be interesting as to the cause since I only have 20,000 miles on the bike.

If the vent stopped up it may have created enough pressure to blow the seal on the tranny, that would dump the oil into the primary case.

kinda hard to see it burning the clutch. At least on my 89 glide the oils are too similar.

Trans. Metal shavings might be a game changer but clutch plates and spacers are relatively cheap.

clutch basket may be OK, I wouldn't doubt it until i seen it?

Question, HOW did the vent get plugged? vent hose etc? And who caused it to plug?

Was the vent actually plugged?

Hook a hose to it and blow on it, If you can blow through it the vent wasn't plugged at the tranny top cover.

Can you blow through the vent hose to see if it was kinked or somehow collapsed ?

Gotta wonder about the seal its self? also might be hard to tell if it was installed correctly now?

Tranny's going to be an expensive fix if you have to pay for it even if you do the repairs yourself.

 

[Jack Klarich]

This is a bummer

Harley does know of the fluid transfer issue

They have been working on a cure for a couple of years now

It is MORE found on the M8 bikes but older bikes suffer also

Have your dealer discuss Service Bulletin TA0022 with you

They printed and sent this document to their dealers this does mention as early as some 2014 models migrating oil

 

[pcombe]

Waiting to hear from the Harley Shop as to what the root cause but they said the same thing tranny vent hose. However I am starting to find out Harley has known about this issue since September 2017 due to a seal issue. It's going to be interesting as to the cause since I only have 20,000 miles on the bike.

just so you know:

On my 89 tour glide if i want to replace the trans main seal i plug the vent and shoot a bit of air into the tranny, The seal blows out for me without much air pressure and keeps me from having to dig it out.

Fluid transfer through the seal would suggest vibration on the pilot shaft causing seal failure i would think?

Maybe there is a problem with the clutch hub and clutch basket causing vibration?

I dont know what harley has to say about cause of these failures but you wouldn't think the transmission pilot shaft bearings would be prone to failure?

Transmission on my old glide has over 100,000 miles on it.

It;s about the only original drive part.

I guess i dont know much about the six speeds?

 

[Jack Klarich]

just so you know:

On my 89 tour glide if i want to replace the trans main seal i plug the vent and shoot a bit of air into the tranny, The seal blows out for me without much air pressure and keeps me from having to dig it out.

Fluid transfer through the seal would suggest vibration on the pilot shaft causing seal failure i would think?

Maybe there is a problem with the clutch hub and clutch basket causing vibration?

I dont know what harley has to say about cause of these failures but you wouldn't think the transmission pilot shaft bearings would be prone to failure?

Transmission on my old glide has over 100,000 miles on it.

It;s about the only original drive part.

I guess i dont know much about the six speeds?

View attachment 56978

Most of the current failures ( But limited to) are related to hydraulic clutch models

This problem goes back to 2014 models

Some others on other sites are claiming the hollow push rod is the cause of the leak

I dunno for sure

I do know, if the MOCO does not get a fix soon their sales and confidence cushion will continue to slide JMO

 

[Jack Klarich]

I am planning a trip to North Carolins

442 miles each way

I will be running I95 @ 80 mph most of the way

If mine is going to leak it should show up

I run Redline in my tranny so it will show better on the stick as well as in the primary

To date with over 16k on my FLRT I have not had this problem, I do measure all fluids I drain out

Maybe a bit over kill but it is my way of knowing for sure

 

[FRR]

Well, as I posted on the Triglide site,my buddy is getting the run around from his dealer about this issue. This time the tranny stick showed empty. He took it in to his dealer, thye measured the amount left, said he had over 5 oz leak but not to worry about it. Told him to ride it 500 miles and bring it in again. They said they would then measure it again but has offered no fix or reassurance that they will adequately fix the issue. He is afraid to take it out of state. The tech actually suggested to him that if he goes on a trip he should drain the tranny periodically on the trip and then drain the primary to see how much is being affected. Now who in their right mind is going to do that. He has 3 trips planned and is not comfortable leaving the state on the thing. Who can blame him? There has to be someone at MOCO at a higher level to speak with. What a terrible way to treat customers.

 

[rhino 2]

Well, as I posted on the Triglide site,my buddy is getting the run around from his dealer about this issue. This time the tranny stick showed empty. He took it in to his dealer, thye measured the amount left, said he had over 5 oz leak but not to worry about it. Told him to ride it 500 miles and bring it in again. They said they would then measure it again but has offered no fix or reassurance that they will adequately fix the issue. He is afraid to take it out of state. The tech actually suggested to him that if he goes on a trip he should drain the tranny periodically on the trip and then drain the primary to see how much is being affected. Now who in their right mind is going to do that. He has 3 trips planned and is not comfortable leaving the state on the thing. Who can blame him? There has to be someone at MOCO at a higher level to speak with. What a terrible way to treat customers.

When I had my 5000 mile check up done they think I might have that same problem with oil mitigation so they said to bring in after a thousand miles and They will check it I but the problem is they don't have a fix for it and Harley is just trying to stall everybody till they come up with a fix! I will know more about this when I bring it in later this week

 

[droptine42]

Hydraulic Clutch Seal

Well HD said they found the root cause and it just so happens to be the hydraulic clutch seal imagine that!! Total damage $500 and some change, tranny was not damaged and clutches turned out ok. Plan on getting bike back and ride the heck out of it and see if the issue returns. Thanks for all the comments.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Well HD said they found the root cause and it just so happens to be the hydraulic clutch seal imagine that!! Total damage $500 and some change, tranny was not damaged and clutches turned out ok. Plan on getting bike back and ride the heck out of it and see if the issue returns. Thanks for all the comments.

Do you have part numbers?

 

[droptine42]

Do you have part numbers?

I will pick my bike up tomorrow and will provide part numbers when I get back home.

 

[FRR]

Well HD said they found the root cause and it just so happens to be the hydraulic clutch seal imagine that!! Total damage $500 and some change, tranny was not damaged and clutches turned out ok. Plan on getting bike back and ride the heck out of it and see if the issue returns. Thanks for all the comments.

My friend and his buddy BOTH have had that seal replaced and it still doesn't fix the problem. HD just playing delay delay delay

 

[rhino 2]

I will pick my bike up tomorrow and will provide part numbers when I get back home.

***************8

 

[rhino 2]

My friend and his buddy BOTH have had that seal replaced and it still doesn't fix the problem. HD just playing delay delay delay

Yep, It seems that there are 3 different # thrown around the internet of kits/parts that will fix the oil migration, But so far none are 100%.....For more than a few thousand miles.. And whats crazy they all don't do it and thats whats got the brain-trust at Harley worried because more may be doing it but some owners might not be checking the trans regularly or thinking its just a little low and add a few oz's, Till the chain case is over filled.. ..... :Shrug:

 

[Jack Klarich]

Yep, It seems that there are 3 different # thrown around the internet of kits/parts that will fix the oil migration, But so far none are 100%.....For more than a few thousand miles.. And whats crazy they all don't do it and thats whats got the brain-trust at Harley worried because more may be doing it but some owners might not be checking the trans regularly or thinking its just a little low and add a few oz's, Till the chain case is over filled.. ..... :Shrug:

This could totally ruin the MOCO as we know it if they end up doing a recall JMO

 

[FRR]

Yep, It seems that there are 3 different # thrown around the internet of kits/parts that will fix the oil migration, But so far none are 100%.....For more than a few thousand miles.. And whats crazy they all don't do it and thats whats got the brain-trust at Harley worried because more may be doing it but some owners might not be checking the trans regularly or thinking its just a little low and add a few oz's, Till the chain case is over filled.. ..... :Shrug:

Good point. My friend has been a loyal HD rider for years even thou every Ultra or Tri he has had has given him fits. He is going to give HD one more month and than he is unloading this turkey and, in his words, " buying a Can Am". His dealer is trying to get him to believe that the two Tri they sold with the problem are the only ones anywhere that is experiencing this issue.