If you own a diesel car or truck ... this may help.

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Okay, background, so I recently purchased a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit with the ECO Diesel 3.0L. Nice rig, but, most of what it knows, I don't ... LOL ... I suspect the Tri is the same way.

Anyway, on my way home from bowling yesterday, I got a message on the dash, "The exhaust filter is approaching full, keep driving normally". I had no clue what that meant, but, it seemed I should keep driving. No lights, no alarms, etc. So I did, got home with no issues.

To be honest, I kind of forgot about it. This rig tells me stuff all the time like "normal ride height achieved", "Aero Dynamic Ride Height achieved" etc.This morning I thought I'd go early and pick up some items I will need for the smoked turkey dinner I'm planning for mom on Thanksgiving. So off I headed to the grocery store at 5am. (we have 1 Safeway that is open 24/7).

Started the Jeep, got the belt on and headed out. Got another cryptic message saying "Exhaust system needs regeneration. Please drive safely at highway speeds". Okay, now my interest is peaked. I figured, be a good sailor, do what you're told (even though I'm not keen on taking "ORDERS" from my car). I decided to take the long way to the store and get on I70. I figured I'd drive until the warning cleared, or, I hit the Utah Border, 32 miles. If it didn't clear in 32 miles, might be time for some challenging the orders .

As I was building speed on I70, at about 50 mph, the message changed to "Exhaust regeneration in progress. Please continue to drive at highway speeds safely". At about 16 miles at 75 mph, the message changed to "Exhaust regeneration complete. Please drive normally". Should be noted here, that during that 16 miles, the Jeep ran a tad "rough". Not horrible, but, not the silky smooth I've come to know, which surprised me since it's. a diesel. Also, I've paraphrased the messages.

Okay, so all was back to silky smooth, so I turned around at Fruita and headed back to the store, got my groceries and went home. I hate it when I have to do things that I don't understand. So, I read the 40 something pages in the owners manual closely about this (had skimmed it before, but, frankly, it's boring). It went into great detail about how you need to do this and also about "obeying" the rules about filling the DEF tank (Diesel Exhaust fluid) and oil change messages, but not why. So now I can be expecting more "Orders" from my Jeep.

Since I was not happy with the "Obey the Orders" explanation, I decided to see if anyone on the internet had some more info. Again should be noted, I take stuff on the net with a box of salt (a grain doesn't seem to be enough).

I found a couple articles that explained the progression starting in 2002 and going though 2010 (thanks Bush and Obama) regs on EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation), NO and NO2 (Nitrous Oxide) production, DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter), SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction), DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) and lots of other stuff. I thought I understood EGR, but, apparently not as it applies to a diesel. After reading these, it was clear as mud. Lots of technical "stuff" and acronyms (ever notice we've created a big word to describe that we're using initials instead of a big word? :xzqxz: ) that they explained once then went to just acronyms.

I kept searching. I found a video that does a pretty good job of explaining how all this fits together. Between the articles (one of which was the actual EPA regs ... pretty sure nobody except engineers understand that one) and the below video, I understand it enough that my brain will actually allow me to unconditionally "obey" the dash messages, well at least the ones I've mentioned here .. LOL. A disclaimer about the video, they are explaining all this so you'll buy their products they claim will make your diesel last forever, and maybe they will. I also found a couple videos that go into some of the issues that can happen if you fail to obey the orders, and the numbers for repairs in this video seem to be inline.

So, without further adieu, A.B. Normal Engineering brings you the video.

Disclaimer, I have nuttin to do with this company ... just a mind that rarely lets me let things go without question :AGGHH:.

 

[TonkaDriver]

$$$$$

I can tell you from firsthand knowledge that not following orders while exhaust regen is in progress can become very expensive. Our mill concentrate loader operators would shut the loader down during regen and after doing that for about a year the loader had to be sent out for rebuild and replacement of the entire exhaust system. More than I make in a year or two went into repairs.

Kurt

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

I can tell you from firsthand knowledge that not following orders while exhaust regen is in progress can become very expensive. Our mill concentrate loader operators would shut the loader down during regen and after doing that for about a year the loader had to be sent out for rebuild and replacement of the entire exhaust system. More than I make in a year or two went into repairs.

Kurt

Needless to say ... I am gonna snap to and merrily salute when those "Orders" are given by the Jeep.

 

[Marc H]

Do as it tells you and keep DEF fluid in the reservoir.That is some nasty stuff and i'm sure could do ugly stuff to the paint if you get any on it and not cleaned properly.

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Do as it tells you and keep DEF fluid in the reservoir.That is some nasty stuff and i'm sure could do ugly stuff to the paint if you get any on it and not cleaned properly.

I thought is was basically ammonia ... but who knows what ammonia does to paint???? Good Tip.

The owners Manual says to fill the def tank when you change the oil ... and I'm gonna let my "guy" do that ... ... he's a friend that has done my cars/trucks for years.

 

[Marc H]

Its urea and water.Mostly urea.

 

[TonkaDriver]

Its urea and water.Mostly urea.

Has no affect on paint. Rinses right off with just plain water.

Kurt

 

[desertclassic]

DEF, diesel exhaust fluid, nasty stuff. I pick up my f350 tomorrow at the dealer after the tank was drained, it was full of diesel, removed, flushed and reinstalled. Both filters replaced and the system recharged. I did a stupid thing like, put the def pump Nozzle in the diesel tank, they are side by side. I knew not to even turn on the key or it would be serious. I put the key in my pocket and called for the tow truck. 524$$ later I get my truck back.

If you are doing a lot of city driving, slower than 45, a lot of idling or short trips, you will have to add DEF between oil changes.

 

[1dn5up]

Has no affect on paint. Rinses right off with just plain water.

Kurt

I heard it’s cow piss diluted :Shrug:

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Has no affect on paint. Rinses right off with just plain water.

Kurt

Good to know.

DEF, diesel exhaust fluid, nasty stuff. I pick up my f350 tomorrow at the dealer after the tank was drained, it was full of diesel, removed, flushed and reinstalled. Both filters replaced and the system recharged. I did a stupid thing like, put the def pump Nozzle in the diesel tank, they are side by side. I knew not to even turn on the key or it would be serious. I put the key in my pocket and called for the tow truck. 524$$ later I get my truck back.

If you are doing a lot of city driving, slower than 45, a lot of idling or short trips, you will have to add DEF between oil changes.

Nearest city is 200 miles away, but, I get what you're saying. I do very little if any idling, but most of my trips are 5-10 miles, 30-45 mph. I've added a trip to Long John Silver's (65 miles one way at 65 mph) on a weekly basis ... ya know .. to clear the exhaust thingie.

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Side Benefit?

Okay, so I have about 150 miles on the Jeep since I did the regeneration thing and 250 something miles on the tank overall since fill. Still at about 3/4 full, but I like to keep fairly topped off in the cold.

I've been noticing the "real time" fuel mileage thing has been looking higher than I'm used to seeing since the regeneration thing. I don't put a lot of faith in those things. For the tank the "average" was saying 21.45 mpg. About what I'm seeing after fill dividing miles vs. gallons. So, I went to fill up and WOW. I did a couple days helping the church deliver Thanksgiving dinner fixings in a bag to needy families, so mostly around town. The only highway was 40 miles doing the regeneration thing. Amazing how many miles you can get on a tank when you do lots of running around. Did 256 miles and put 8.668 gallons in, 29.53 MPG .. ain't too shabby.

I'm wondering if the regeneration cleaning out the filter allows less back pressure and higher gas mileage?? I'm sure as the filter starts to fill up again the mileage will drop and get back to the average I was seeing. When I say average, I'm talking my average for all my use, which is hanging out around 22 mpg.

 

[DblTrbl]

I have 2700 on my Silverado and so far it hasn't gone into REGEN. I'm hoping it doesn't until I hook up and hit the road in a few weeks. At that time I will be at highway speeds but towing the toy hauler.

Dang, like your MPG. the best I have gotten was 25.7 and that was the first week I had the truck when I went up to VT. Around town I'm getting around 18. Last 50 miles has averaged 20.

No longer counting days......I'm counting hours!! 96 hours after tomorrow:clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[desertclassic]

I have 2700 on my Silverado and so far it hasn't gone into REGEN. I'm hoping it doesn't until I hook up and hit the road in a few weeks. At that time I will be at highway speeds but towing the toy hauler.

Dang, like your MPG. the best I have gotten was 25.7 and that was the first week I had the truck when I went up to VT. Around town I'm getting around 18. Last 50 miles has averaged 20.

No longer counting days......I'm counting hours!! 96 hours after tomorrow:clapping::clapping::clapping:

my experience says, when towing, there is an increase in the exhaust temps, and the truck may not go into regen mode. Slow driving is the killer. If I am on the road empty, I can get 16 mph, when towing the 5th wheel, 14k, I usually get 11-12. Wheel the regen starts, fuel mileage takes a nose dive.

 

[Phu Cat]

​Great video, I learned a lot even tho I don't own a diesel. One thing that bugs me tho, is why diesel costs more than gasoline? Diesel (sometimes called solar heat medium, the same thing some people heat their homes with) comes off the "A" tower , the first tower the crude goes thru. Gasoline goes thru the A tower then is sent on to the 'Cat Cracker' where it goes thru the catalyst side then the recovery side (two more big steps than just the A tower).

There is a small amount of gasoline that goes on to the Alkylation unit that adds a third step for making high octane gasoline. So you can see there's a lot more involved in making gasoline than diesel, yet diesel costs more! I'm guessing that's because the oil companies know the truckers HAVE to have it.

PC

 

[rhino 2]

​Great video, I learned a lot even tho I don't own a diesel. One thing that bugs me tho, is why diesel costs more than gasoline? Diesel (sometimes called solar heat medium, the same thing some people heat their homes with) comes off the "A" tower , the first tower the crude goes thru. Gasoline goes thru the A tower then is sent on to the 'Cat Cracker' where it goes thru the catalyst side then the recovery side (two more big steps than just the A tower). There is a small amount of gasoline that goes on to the Alkylation unit that adds a third step for making high octane gasoline. So you can see there's a lot more involved in making gasoline than diesel, yet diesel costs more! I'm guessing that's because the oil companies know the truckers HAVE to have it.

PC

Part of the price of diesel fuel is the federal tax is higher than it is on gasoline and that’s not counting state and local taxes

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

​Great video, I learned a lot even tho I don't own a diesel. One thing that bugs me tho, is why diesel costs more than gasoline? Diesel (sometimes called solar heat medium, the same thing some people heat their homes with) comes off the "A" tower , the first tower the crude goes thru. Gasoline goes thru the A tower then is sent on to the 'Cat Cracker' where it goes thru the catalyst side then the recovery side (two more big steps than just the A tower). There is a small amount of gasoline that goes on to the Alkylation unit that adds a third step for making high octane gasoline. So you can see there's a lot more involved in making gasoline than diesel, yet diesel costs more! I'm guessing that's because the oil companies know the truckers HAVE to have it.

PC

In my vehicle program, I have it calculate cost per mile for fuel ... My new to me Jeep Grand Cherokee is @ $0.09 per mile. My 2014 Toyota p/u was @ $0.13 per mile. My Tri is at $0.09 also, but, I put premium in it. So the Jeep and Tri, as of now coast the same per mile, for fuel ...

Edit: I went back and checked my program ... I was wrong.

Tri - $0.09 per mile

Jeep - $0.13 per mile

Toyota - $0.16 per mile

I was kind of shocked, my lowest were the 01 GL1800 (Tweety), 1999 GL1500 (Jade) and the 08 GL1800 w/Champion Conversion (Fat Bottom Girl 2) all coming in @ $0.07 per mile.

The tri gets 34.5 mpg but uses Premium, The 08 GL1800 w/Champion conversion got 32.6 used regular. I point this out to show that in my calculations, I was to compare apples to apples. Yep, Alan is Annal ... :Shrug: ... may not be actual apples to apples because of fuel price fluctuations, but, it's the best I can do unless I the average price per gallon for all vehicles ... and then I'd loose my actual cost per mile for fuel.



Should be noted that that calculation is based on average lifetime mpg divided by average cost per gallon life time. So the Jeep only takes into account fuel price fluctuation for almost two moths and the Toyota takes into account fuel price fluctuation for almost two years and many trips to Denver, Mesquite, even Kerrville.

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

Just for fun ...

And maybe so you get an idea of what I do to keep the brain from going off the rails ... :AGGHH:

I printed to pdf the summary page with just the fuel mileage line, then converted it to jpeg pages ... might help to see various vehicles and their CPMF ( Cost per Mile Fuel ). I didn't have it print trailers, but, they are covered by the program as well ... ... the numbers next to the names are current or max odometer.







I thought about maybe developing an app from my program, but decided it would do one of two things ...

1) make me rich

2) get the guys in white coats to come get me

Personally #2 seemed more plausible ... :AGGHH: ... and I think I might go quietly ...

Also ... you can see how the program alerts me to "upcoming" service items. I can add, modify or remove ant item I want. Those are the items in bold to the right of the pics. If it's a date, the date is the most limiting. If it's an odometer, it is the most limiting. If a Vehicle is archived ... it's pretty self explanatory.

If I no longer own a vehicle, it's archived, but for some reason, I seem to want to save the data.

 

[PTR]

Okay, background, so I recently purchased a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit with the ECO Diesel 3.0L. Nice rig, but, most of what it knows, I don't ... LOL ... I suspect the Tri is the same way.

Anyway, on my way home from bowling yesterday, I got a message on the dash, "The exhaust filter is approaching full, keep driving normally". I had no clue what that meant, but, it seemed I should keep driving. No lights, no alarms, etc. So I did, got home with no issues.

To be honest, I kind of forgot about it. This rig tells me stuff all the time like "normal ride height achieved", "Aero Dynamic Ride Height achieved" etc.This morning I thought I'd go early and pick up some items I will need for the smoked turkey dinner I'm planning for mom on Thanksgiving. So off I headed to the grocery store at 5am. (we have 1 Safeway that is open 24/7).

Started the Jeep, got the belt on and headed out. Got another cryptic message saying "Exhaust system needs regeneration. Please drive safely at highway speeds". Okay, now my interest is peaked. I figured, be a good sailor, do what you're told (even though I'm not keen on taking "ORDERS" from my car). I decided to take the long way to the store and get on I70. I figured I'd drive until the warning cleared, or, I hit the Utah Border, 32 miles. If it didn't clear in 32 miles, might be time for some challenging the orders .

As I was building speed on I70, at about 50 mph, the message changed to "Exhaust regeneration in progress. Please continue to drive at highway speeds safely". At about 16 miles at 75 mph, the message changed to "Exhaust regeneration complete. Please drive normally". Should be noted here, that during that 16 miles, the Jeep ran a tad "rough". Not horrible, but, not the silky smooth I've come to know, which surprised me since it's. a diesel. Also, I've paraphrased the messages.

Okay, so all was back to silky smooth, so I turned around at Fruita and headed back to the store, got my groceries and went home. I hate it when I have to do things that I don't understand. So, I read the 40 something pages in the owners manual closely about this (had skimmed it before, but, frankly, it's boring). It went into great detail about how you need to do this and also about "obeying" the rules about filling the DEF tank (Diesel Exhaust fluid) and oil change messages, but not why. So now I can be expecting more "Orders" from my Jeep.

Since I was not happy with the "Obey the Orders" explanation, I decided to see if anyone on the internet had some more info. Again should be noted, I take stuff on the net with a box of salt (a grain doesn't seem to be enough).

I found a couple articles that explained the progression starting in 2002 and going though 2010 (thanks Bush and Obama) regs on EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation), NO and NO2 (Nitrous Oxide) production, DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter), SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction), DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) and lots of other stuff. I thought I understood EGR, but, apparently not as it applies to a diesel. After reading these, it was clear as mud. Lots of technical "stuff" and acronyms (ever notice we've created a big word to describe that we're using initials instead of a big word? :xzqxz: ) that they explained once then went to just acronyms.

I kept searching. I found a video that does a pretty good job of explaining how all this fits together. Between the articles (one of which was the actual EPA regs ... pretty sure nobody except engineers understand that one) and the below video, I understand it enough that my brain will actually allow me to unconditionally "obey" the dash messages, well at least the ones I've mentioned here .. LOL. A disclaimer about the video, they are explaining all this so you'll buy their products they claim will make your diesel last forever, and maybe they will. I also found a couple videos that go into some of the issues that can happen if you fail to obey the orders, and the numbers for repairs in this video seem to be inline.

So, without further adieu, A.B. Normal Engineering brings you the video.

Disclaimer, I have nuttin to do with this company ... just a mind that rarely lets me let things go without question :AGGHH:.

I am jumping in late but found this thread this morning. How do you like the 3.0 Diesel. I am thinking about ordering a 2020 Wrangler with the Diesel. A lot of money if there junk. I know a lot about Diesels, I deal with them everyday and drive a 2018 Cummis as my daily driver just have not talked to a owner of the jeep 3.0

 

[FuzzyWuzHe]

I've put almost 4k on it in 5 months and love it. I took it to Mesquite early this month and I was just wow'd. Had to go over lots of 10k mountains and although it was all highway, I was impressed with the pull power. I set the cruise to the speed limit and just did the steering. No bogging down and no issues.

This Jeep has an 8 speed automatic transmission. You couple that with the 3.0 diesel, you can get the beast in a gear that it actually likes. One thing that it doesn't really need in my case is the paddle shifters. I mean really, it's not a sports car. I really think it's categorized correctly, a luxury SUV, very comfortable, with a lot of pulling power. It still comes up with stuff that I don't understand, but, most of it is pretty common sense.

One of my favorite features is the automatic Hi beams ... I leave it on all the time. I don't like to drive at night, glaucoma, so the more light I get the better. I was concerned a little about using this in town because I hate people that drive around with hi beams on in my mirrors or my face. But, even though I watched it closely, it is very good at killing the hi beams long before I would effect other drivers. The PO also installed driving lights low on the front, and I like those as well. I don't do much night driving, but, I am not as unlikely to do it with this rig.

It's 435 miles from my house to Mesquite, I had 3/8 of a tank left when I got there. Got 24.8 mpg for the whole trip and it holds 24.6 gals. About 610 mile range to empty, unfortunately, I have about a 450 mile range bathroom stop to bathroom stop ... LOL.

As an update to the regeneration thing. I haven't had the Jeep do this since that one time about 3k ago. It's my belief that while it was at the dealer (I bought it used) it did little trips (test drives) and didn't ever go over like 10-30 mph. I do mostly around town driving in the winter, but, no real traffic, so, around 40 mph most of the time with no stop and go. I did two radio updates this week, one for the radio and one for the maps. The radio one was like 40 minutes and the maps was like 75 minutes at idle. Both require the Jeep to be idling in park and in a well ventilated area. If the regeneration thing was to come back, I'm guessing it would be this week ... LOL

I was planning on taking the Tri on the trailer when I went to Mesquite. The temps the week I was there were like low 40's. I can ride in those temps here ... LOL ... so I didn't take it, but, I did have it loaded and took the whole group out on the highway to see how it pulled. Barely knew the Tri and trailer where back there. With the 7200# towing capacity, I'm guessing it's not gonna get too upset pulling the 1200# tri and the 1200# trailer. Guess we'll find out when I head to Kerrville.

I've read lots of reviews of this particular set up where people are pulling RV's that weigh 5-7k and are getting 16-18 mpg on the highway. I can live with those numbers. With the Toyota pulling the tri and trailer it was more like 9-12 mpg.

Hope that helps ... if you have any other questions ... just ask.

 

[Gray Biker]

The DPF crap for air pollution is a bunch of bull... Before I retired I worked on Mack trucks. They had all the fancy expensive crap for keeping the PPM down to keep EPA happy... Well guess where all the carbon particulates go when they build up in all that fancy crap.... The dealer takes the crap off, knocks all the soot out that they can. The EGR cooler gets both ends opened up and a air hose goes in and a cloud of soot blows out across the back lot... Then if you can clean it enough, you force a re gen to burn off the rest... We had "Truck drivers" and they knew everything, so they would hit the button not letting the truck re gen. Until it finally shut down... You dont want to do that very many times.....

After working on trucks for 40 years I'm staying with gas... Its way cheaper in the long run and a lot less headaches.. If you have one, remember to keep trading, you dont want to be the one that has to pay to replace all the crap when it wears out...