Right side 1999 Honda Valkyrie/Motortrike is rigid and stiiff. Clunks when I hit a decent bump. Left side is normal . Can purpously run over a bump with left side not even really feel it. Right side not so. It seems like the right side won't dump any air but motortrike tech said both airbags are tied together so thats probably not the problem. I removed the valve stem and dumped all the air and the right side still stayed the same. currently running 30 lbs of pressure for a single rider. Any Ideas?
MotorTrike Suspension Issues
- Thread starter magoo
- Start date
Do a visual check of both air bags to determine no air in bags when dumped and trace air lines to determine that they are linked. May need to remove both rear tires to access. :wave4:
- Thread starter
- #3
Gorilla
Senior Moderator
welcome Ted dos that setup have shocks besides the air bags? If so you may have a bad shock.
- Thread starter
- #5
On cars the answer is not normally. But I could see it happening if one of the little valves got plugged somehow. Cars they usually get soft so you get a lot of bounce.
Gorilla
Senior Moderator
a bad shock can lose its valve workings and just not work
I completely believe it. I've just never seen one. All I've ever seen is bouncy bouncy.
MotorTrike was the first brand of trike I was a dealer for and used a sort of "semi-solid axle" suspension design on their trikes for the longest time. Though it did use a solid axle rear end, it utilized trailing arms (ladder bars) rather than a wide, rigid swingarm like most solid axle trikes. The trailing arms (ladder bars) utilized heim joints at the front and rear of each side.
This allowed each side to have a built in "pivot" that somewhat mimicked an independent suspension. It was designed as way to make solid axle trikes ride a bit smoother than the rigid swingarm designs. The problem this design had was that it was discovered that the heim joints commonly binded up and made one side or the other lock up and not pivot.
This sounds like it may be what you are experiencing. The fix is to liberally spray the front and rear heim joints on each side with liquid silicone spray to allow free rotation of the joints. It is very important that you closely inspect the joints to see if they are damaged. They have been found to have stripped threads on the heim joints due to the binding, so look at them closely.
BIG respect to Papa Z, but I would not be comfortable lubricating them like that.
IF you are suspecting a binding rod end, and you have to "closely inspect " and "look at them closely" ... Silicone spray is NOT the correct answer IMO. I have a 2006 with the ladder bars/heim ends. The ONLY way to properly inspect them and lubricate them is to remove the bars. Not too difficult, 3 bolts per side on mine.
THEN you can "look at them closely". There is no way in Hades I could inspect them properly installed, much less lubricate them properly. I pack mine with moly grease.
And as soon as you pull the bottom bolt on either arm, check the travel again. If things free up, you KNOW its a bind. And you really have to remove them to fix it. The rod ends on mine were 'loctite blue' locked, and I had to put the ladder bars in a vise to remove them to allow adjustment.
The idiot(s) that worked on my trike before had set up the ladder bars in a bind, I suspect. I know the pinion angle was not even close when I reassembled after the rear end was welded. Even on the side that wasnt fixed.
I attempted a 'close inspection' of the rear of my trike before purchase. Cardboard on the ground, work clothes and light, and got REAL greasy getting in there. Had my glasses on , and with a mirror thought I had a good view. NOPE. Missed some MAJOR things. And I am a 'young', flexible pup.
This is your A** on the seat. I would not skimp on the inspection and lubrication.
@Papa Z -
Is this the Ladder bar/panhard rod setup (With the additional locators on the ladder bars) that mine has?
The procedure I recommended is exactly what Motor Trike themselves recommended, in fact I can probably find the documentation from them if I look and there are likely old threads here that addresses this issue. I'm not saying that is ALL the servicing that is ever needed, but for the issue stated that's the starting point to determine the problem and in many cases (not every case) that is all that is needed.
As I stated, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU CLOSELY INSPECT THEM FOR DAMAGE. I've been a dealer installer for 14 years and have closely inspected many. Some only required silicone spray, and others were damaged and had to be replaced. If there was any doubt whatsoever, they were removed, taken apart and further diagnosed, repacked with grease and reinstalled or if damage was found they were replaced. Repacking with grease every 24 months or 15K miles is also recommended maintenance.
Granted I always lift the trike on a pro trike lift and having done hundreds of conversions, I know what to look for. Poking your head partially under a trike with cardboard and a mirror is not closely inspecting the machine, and as you found out you will miss a lot.
If you want a real inspection done, take it to a qualified trike installer that knows what they are doing. It will save you money in the long run.
As I stated, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU CLOSELY INSPECT THEM FOR DAMAGE. I've been a dealer installer for 14 years and have closely inspected many. Some only required silicone spray, and others were damaged and had to be replaced. If there was any doubt whatsoever, they were removed, taken apart and further diagnosed, repacked with grease and reinstalled or if damage was found they were replaced. Repacking with grease every 24 months or 15K miles is also recommended maintenance.
Granted I always lift the trike on a pro trike lift and having done hundreds of conversions, I know what to look for. Poking your head partially under a trike with cardboard and a mirror is not closely inspecting the machine, and as you found out you will miss a lot.
If you want a real inspection done, take it to a qualified trike installer that knows what they are doing. It will save you money in the long run.
Also, it is NOT recommended that you remove the ladder bars and heim joints without carefully following very specific instructions on disassembly, reassembly and proper adjustment. Reference Motor Trikes ladder bar & heim joint info in the manual below. It is for a Goldwing but the ladder bars and heim joint setup is the same:
http://www.junkmaster.com/kj5ix/MTServiceManual.pdf
http://www.junkmaster.com/kj5ix/MTServiceManual.pdf
Yes sir! I had that manual, and I guess I missed the procedures for 'removing the ladder bars'... and I still dont see it. The only reference I see as far as removal warning(s) is step 7 on page 15, (SORRY it wont let me cut and paste, )but it basically says 'Make sure you note the position of the washers and return them to this position correctly' with an explanation why. No other details/warnings about R&R of ladder bars was seen... But I am sometimes a blind idiot, and would welcome some direction.
I may have been told incorrectly...... (has happened MANY times)... but I was told that simply R&R the ladder bars, not disassembling them, but R&R them to grease/inspect things was fine, and would not affect adjustments in any way. Is this incorrect? That is what I was recommending to the OP, and hope I am not spreading dangerous advice!
(Oh yeah, I did say 3 bolts per side, forgot the links on top. D'oH! 4 bolts on the left bar, 5 on the right)
And I imagine there must be a 'dealer level' procedure for adjustments that goes beyond what is in the GW manual. Pinion angle is not even mentioned. 'Squaring' the axle to the centerline is not mentioned (centering it with the panhard rod is). Through several 'learning experiences' I found a 5* 'up' angle on the pinion took out almost all the driveline vibration. :clapping: 'Plumb' and down 5* (mine came pinion down ~7.5*) both created a similar vibration. (The pinion angle and driveshaft being 'out of time' turned out to be the two culprits that got me this trike so cheap because it vibrated SO bad. Pleasure to ride now! )
I intend for you, or anyone, absolutely NO disrespect!! I hope that raising questions like this wont have me banned soon. (but if so, THANK YOU for the help to date anyway!
)
I may have been told incorrectly...... (has happened MANY times)... but I was told that simply R&R the ladder bars, not disassembling them, but R&R them to grease/inspect things was fine, and would not affect adjustments in any way. Is this incorrect? That is what I was recommending to the OP, and hope I am not spreading dangerous advice!
(Oh yeah, I did say 3 bolts per side, forgot the links on top. D'oH! 4 bolts on the left bar, 5 on the right)
And I imagine there must be a 'dealer level' procedure for adjustments that goes beyond what is in the GW manual. Pinion angle is not even mentioned. 'Squaring' the axle to the centerline is not mentioned (centering it with the panhard rod is). Through several 'learning experiences' I found a 5* 'up' angle on the pinion took out almost all the driveline vibration. :clapping: 'Plumb' and down 5* (mine came pinion down ~7.5*) both created a similar vibration. (The pinion angle and driveshaft being 'out of time' turned out to be the two culprits that got me this trike so cheap because it vibrated SO bad. Pleasure to ride now! )
I intend for you, or anyone, absolutely NO disrespect!! I hope that raising questions like this wont have me banned soon. (but if so, THANK YOU for the help to date anyway!
)
No intention whatsoever in banning you Randy. Its all good!
- Thread starter
- #15
suspension
OK. Thanks for the info trike family. I will be taking my trike down to my local Motortrike dealer today and I will show him this discussion. Sounds like you are on the right track. Hopefully we will be able to figure it out. I will let you all know what transpires.
OK. Thanks for the info trike family. I will be taking my trike down to my local Motortrike dealer today and I will show him this discussion. Sounds like you are on the right track. Hopefully we will be able to figure it out. I will let you all know what transpires.
- Thread starter
- #16
suspension
OK I took it to the dealer which is a family owned [two brothers] harley shop not affiliated with harley. Been in business for many years. Nice guys. One has been to motortrike's school. They were closed due to a family emergency. Bummer! The trike does lean slightly to the left side. That service manual said if it leans then the ladder bars on in a bind. I am not a mechanic but in my old age I have been going to how to videos and repair manuals and doing what I can on my motorcycles and truck myself. Did my first fork seals last year and trust me that was a big pat on the back for me! I'm not afraid to inspect the heim joints myself but i have a couple questions.
When the bolts at the axel are removed will the ladder bars pivot down and slide out of the groove so I can spray leor grease the joints? When I remove the lower bolt how do you check the travel? Also something that concerns me is that the lower bolt on the left side is actually in contact with the differential drum. I suspect that somebody put the wrong length bolt in there! Also the support brackets that connect just below the buddy pegs are not adjusted evenly.
The right side is slid down farther in the slotted hole farther than the left. If I loosen the nut on those brackets will they slide to the end of the slot and be difficult to move them back up again? The manual explains leveling and that seems simple enough but when you talk about pinion angle and centering I get the feeling that there is much more going on here than just the heim joints because I do get vibration in the driveline when I gas on it at lower RPMs especially when climbing a hill.
I grabbed the cross links up by the driveshaft and rocked them like the manual said and they are rocking freely so that is a good thing! All in all I think the wisest thing to do is wait until I can get a professional look at it. what do you think?
OK I took it to the dealer which is a family owned [two brothers] harley shop not affiliated with harley. Been in business for many years. Nice guys. One has been to motortrike's school. They were closed due to a family emergency. Bummer! The trike does lean slightly to the left side. That service manual said if it leans then the ladder bars on in a bind. I am not a mechanic but in my old age I have been going to how to videos and repair manuals and doing what I can on my motorcycles and truck myself. Did my first fork seals last year and trust me that was a big pat on the back for me! I'm not afraid to inspect the heim joints myself but i have a couple questions.
When the bolts at the axel are removed will the ladder bars pivot down and slide out of the groove so I can spray leor grease the joints? When I remove the lower bolt how do you check the travel? Also something that concerns me is that the lower bolt on the left side is actually in contact with the differential drum. I suspect that somebody put the wrong length bolt in there! Also the support brackets that connect just below the buddy pegs are not adjusted evenly.
The right side is slid down farther in the slotted hole farther than the left. If I loosen the nut on those brackets will they slide to the end of the slot and be difficult to move them back up again? The manual explains leveling and that seems simple enough but when you talk about pinion angle and centering I get the feeling that there is much more going on here than just the heim joints because I do get vibration in the driveline when I gas on it at lower RPMs especially when climbing a hill.
I grabbed the cross links up by the driveshaft and rocked them like the manual said and they are rocking freely so that is a good thing! All in all I think the wisest thing to do is wait until I can get a professional look at it. what do you think?
Ted,
Yes, wait. Call me at 346-800-7946.
Yes, wait. Call me at 346-800-7946.
Any chance...
You could provide the manual on here or a new link? I know this is an old thread, but we are experiencing the same issues with a motortrike kit on a 99 road king conversion.
You could provide the manual on here or a new link? I know this is an old thread, but we are experiencing the same issues with a motortrike kit on a 99 road king conversion.
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