Lost my brakes at 65 MPH....

[Free Bird]

Well I had a beautiful ride in the early Spring weather today.... right up to the point I lost my rear bakes....

Thankfully, I still had front brakes, but my rear circuit was completely gone. Sudden catastophic failure.

No fluid leaks, no arpparent abnormal wear. I was only abut 20 miles from my dealer so I hobbled the chopper into them and they said that they have been having several repeat issues with the front caliper rear coupling circuit (for lack of a better term) developing an air bubble in the line between the master cylinder and the front caliper (the line on the inside of the caliper closest to the front wheel). They bled the circuit and all was again well and the brakes worked as normal. The fulid was not quite two years old but the reccommended replacement interval is 2 years so I had them flush and replace the fluid while I was there.

Has anyone else had this or a similar experience with their rear brakes? The dealer said it was unique to Freewheelers (they did not specify a model year or range of model years)

I am telling you what man... The "pucker factor" goes WAY UP when you step on the brake at 65mph on a busy freeway and nothing happens.... so I want to explore this topic with anyone who has had a similar experience befoer I call Mother MoCo tech services...

 

[David357]

Sorry to hear of this issue, Jeff.

Glad you made it to the dealer safely.ThumbUp

 

[Jack Klarich]

I put a lot of miles on a 15 and now my 17 Freewheeler with no brake problems

You are a lucky man I dunno how air gets into this system? I like the linked brakes

I will say bleeding these brakes needs to be done correctly or bad JU JU can happen.

 

[Zammy]

Dang Jeff, glad you're still in one piece, what an "oh sh!t" moment.

 

[Free Bird]

I put a lot of miles on a 15 and now my 17 Freewheeler with no brake problems

You are a lucky man I dunno how air gets into this system? I like the linked brakes

I will say bleeding these brakes needs to be done correctly or bad JU JU can happen.

Ok... good to hear it is a limited thing.

Yes bad ju ju indeed. Perhaps it was just an initial systems mod thing that took 2000 miles to appear. I just got concerned when my (trusted) dealer kinda said "yeah... we see this on Freewheelers" Mine is a 17 I am still going ot call the MoCo as pose the WTF queston just in case.

PS... I am not a conspiracy theorist or an alarmist. Mine could be a one off issue. So please do not generalize the story. I will report what I hear from the MoCo

 

[Free Bird]

P S. S.

For those that don't know I have signifcantlly modified my trike (see Freewheeler Chopper posts for details). Added weight and other mods may have a part to play in this issue. I am an engineer by education and a builderof machines by trade so I will first seek to understand, then work to define root cause of the issue.

Of course, I will share the findings when they are detailed

 

[MDO]

Hello my friend...its been awhile. Sorry to hear about your brake problems. I'm glad you made it to Doc's without incident. I'm curious with all the mods you did, were the rear brakes still stock?

 

[Free Bird]

Yes. The brake rotors and calipers are stock and wear patterns indicate they are a bit undersize for the additional weight of the trike. I need to beef them up a bit. That is on the card for mods to do to the chopper after the springer trike is on the road. The springer trike has Ford car brakes. Rotor is about 3/8" thick and Wilwood caliper pads are 3x the surface area of the HD trike OEM pads.

I may not go all the way to adapting car wheels to the Freewheeler, but I am going to do something to increase braking ability.

The incident yesterday was not caused by the things I am seeing on the rotors. Something like a bad bleed job or ??? is creating the mysterious air bubble in the circuit. Althoough one could imagine heat transfer from the overworked rear brakes having some contribution to deterioration of the life expectancy of the DOT 4 brake fluid.....it still doen not explain the sudden loss of brakes that was resolved by a simple bleeding of the circuit. I was out again this morning....no problems

 

[Jack Klarich]

Jeff, how does your front exhaust header run? On mine the stock header runs too close to the rear brake switch. I had a rear brake light switch code 2 times, never lost brakes but I bet the heat transfer is an issue? Could be the fluid is getting hot, perhaps boiling and causing bubbles. After bleeding my whole system and replacing the crappy OEM pads I have not had any more issues.

 

[Free Bird]

Jeff, how does your front exhaust header run? On mine the stock header runs too close to the rear brake switch. I had a rear brake light switch code 2 times, never lost brakes but I bet the heat transfer is an issue? Could be the fluid is getting hot, perhaps boiling and causing bubbles. After bleeding my whole system and replacing the crappy OEM pads I have not had any more issues.

Thanks Jack,

I have been thinking heat is the issue as well. But I was thinking about the rear calipers working extra duty to stop all of the trike's mass all the time. Never thought of pipe proximity to the master cylinder. Here is my setup:



Here is the stock system



They look really close to the same with respect to the forward pipe's relationship to the MC...

What pads are you using? I need to replace my OEM rotors already (2500 miles) so it is time for something new!

 

[ultrafxr]

Jeff, glad you made it ok to the dealer and got the problem resolved. I can tell you from personal experience the problem almost certainly was caused by heat from the exhaust 'boiling' the brake fluid. Even if you've not reached that 'magic' two year interval to flush and refill you'll most certainly have some moisture in the system. hen it heats it vaporizes and you lose your brakes until things cool down and the vapor liquifies.

Happened to me several years ago on the Sandia Crest Byway riding my CVO Ultra two up and pulling a Bushtec trailer. Half way up I discovered I had no clutch and no rear brakes. Made it to the top parking area and after things cooled down it was ok but went to the dealer to have both systems flushed. Lesson learned. I'll be more fastidious about flushing the fluid for sure.

 

[Free Bird]

Jeff, glad you made it ok to the dealer and got the problem resolved. I can tell you from personal experience the problem almost certainly was caused by heat from the exhaust 'boiling' the brake fluid. Even if you've not reached that 'magic' two year interval to flush and refill you'll most certainly have some moisture in the system. hen it heats it vaporizes and you lose your brakes until things cool down and the vapor liquifies.

Happened to me several years ago on the Sandia Crest Byway riding my CVO Ultra two up and pulling a Bushtec trailer. Half way up I discovered I had no clutch and no rear brakes. Made it to the top parking area and after things cooled down it was ok but went to the dealer to have both systems flushed. Lesson learned. I'll be more fastidious about flushing the fluid for sure.

Thanks to you to! Both you and Jack make great points on the heat factor. All of us know how hot these things run when you ride them and we are not bare skinned 2" away from the exhaust for the operational duration like the brake lines.

Gives me another idea for the list of next gen updates for the chopper!

Thanks again.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Hey Jeff, I just got home from a road trip. I use EBC sintered from J&P

As the fluid heats it turns to a gas, it loses the ability to compress the fluid. That is when the bad JUJU starts. It is just as hard and destructive on the seals in the master and calipers.

This is also the downfall of the hydraulic clutch as well, heat bad JUJU

This is also the main reason HD is so adamant on flushing that fluid

 

[Lee H. Mann]

Thanks to you to! Both you and Jack make great points on the heat factor. All of us know how hot these things run when you ride them and we are not bare skinned 2" away from the exhaust for the operational duration like the brake lines.

Gives me another idea for the list of next gen updates for the chopper!

Thanks again.

Hey Jeff, I just got home from a road trip. I use EBC sintered from J&P

As the fluid heats it turns to a gas, it loses the ability to compress the fluid. That is when the bad JUJU starts. It is just as hard and destructive on the seals in the master and calipers.

This is also the downfall of the hydraulic clutch as well, heat bad JUJU

This is also the main reason HD is so adamant on flushing that fluid

This might be of interest to you both. I get Wilwood New Products reports all the time.

This came out a couple of months ago and since I don't visit this thread too much, I hadn't posted it yet.

Jack also makes a point about the brake-lite switch, I have had several that have melted down. Maybe make a small heat shield (unseen) that would insulate the line and the switch where they might share a space with the header.

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeFluid/BrakeFluid