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[Firewrench22]

2011TG, motor is stock except for the usual air cleaner and exhaust and Power Commander. Lately when starting hot she backfires, starter kicks out, have to try again.

Seems like it happens after it’s good and hot, today traffic was heavy at the ferry dock. Shut it off when I got to waiting area. After a good 10-15 minute heat soak, time to board. it popped/backfired out the exhaust and the starter kicked out 4 times. Finally started.

Starts fine when cool or warm. Got gas on the way home, started fine. I have Love Jugs too and a fanned oil cooler.

Could the compensator be jumping it’s lobes causing sudden unloading of primary chain when cranking?

48000 miles, I change primary oil at 10K, Redline. I change engine oil at 2500-3000. Redline. Also have Accel coil-on-plug ignition. Spark plugs are recent.

Anybody got a good idea?

 

[Gorilla]

2011TG, motor is stock except for the usual air cleaner and exhaust and Power Commander. Lately when starting hot she backfires, starter kicks out, have to try again.

Seems like it happens after it’s good and hot, today traffic was heavy at the ferry dock. Shut it off when I got to waiting area. After a good 10-15 minute heat soak, time to board. it popped/backfired out the exhaust and the starter kicked out 4 times. Finally started.

Starts fine when cool or warm. Got gas on the way home, started fine. I have Love Jugs too and a fanned oil cooler.

Could the compensator be jumping it’s lobes causing sudden unloading of primary chain when cranking?

48000 miles, I change primary oil at 10K, Redline. I change engine oil at 2500-3000. Redline. Also have Accel coil-on-plug ignition. Spark plugs are recent.

Anybody got a good idea?

When I had that happen on my 2007 103 motor charging the compensator fixed the problem.

 

[DK Custom Products]

2011TG, motor is stock except for the usual air cleaner and exhaust and Power Commander. Lately when starting hot she backfires, starter kicks out, have to try again.

Seems like it happens after it’s good and hot, today traffic was heavy at the ferry dock. Shut it off when I got to waiting area. After a good 10-15 minute heat soak, time to board. it popped/backfired out the exhaust and the starter kicked out 4 times. Finally started.

Starts fine when cool or warm. Got gas on the way home, started fine. I have Love Jugs too and a fanned oil cooler.

Could the compensator be jumping it’s lobes causing sudden unloading of primary chain when cranking?

48000 miles, I change primary oil at 10K, Redline. I change engine oil at 2500-3000. Redline. Also have Accel coil-on-plug ignition. Spark plugs are recent.

Anybody got a good idea?

You are in Washington State? Maybe you are experiencing unusually high ambient temps for your area...temps that many of us see every year?

How hot is the engine getting?

If it is up in the 250+ area, then it can use some cooling down.

LINK to report on Why & How to Cool it down.

Kevin

 

[Jack Klarich]

Sorry to hear of your problems

To rule out anything tied to your bikes ECM have you done a scan of your ECM?

Follow this link to check, tho I am leaning toward a bad comp sprocket

https://www.fuelmotousa.com/p-29661-harley-trouble-codes.html

 

[NHBAGGER]

Did some searching and found some said it was excess fuel/fuel vapor in the throttle body. Some of them changed out the battery and the issue went away. Guess the extra cranking helped.

 

[Firewrench22]

Thanks all for the replies. This forum is awesome.

Kevin, I have your EBS, oil filter relocate(and comfort lift & PA shocks), also have mighy mites and ultra-cool oil cooler. Did have tank lift but had to lower tank back down because of 9 degree trees for 21” front wheel. I leave all fans on all the time in warm weather or traffic. Yes Seattle. Temps are normal now, was mid 70’s yesterday.

Oil temp was not up to 230 yet.

Jack, thanks for that link, I’ll go through the scan process tomorrow.

Battery is less than a year old, genuine HD battery. I keep it on a tender if I don’t ride it for more than a couple days.

I think fuel settings are good, plugs are light tan, rarely pings, when I fill up, range routinely says 230-240 miles when riding locally.

Seems like the compensator kind of rattles a little more lately when shutting off.

So my next question is, compensator eliminator sprocket? Yay or nay?

I can see where simpler is better. Will I feel more vibration? I’m torn.

 

[NHBAGGER]

There was also some talk about a leaky or slightly worn injector being a possibility as well as carbon buildup.

As for the solid comp, consensus seems to be if you keep the revs up it will be okay. Guess they don't like lugging.

 

[DK Custom Products]

Oil temp not yet at 230, so not an excessive heat problem, even though it only happens when fully warmed up.

I would also lean toward a compensator, especially since you're hearing more rattle lately.

But, I would check voltage, all cable connections, starter, etc. going thru the elimination process from simplest first.

If it is the compensator, I looked at getting rid of the "cush" with a solid sprocket and decided against it for two reasons-

1. HD seems to have finally figured out how to make a good compensator that does not fail often.

2. By not having the cush it puts more strain (on an already less than robust engine design, especially the Twin Cam crank) on the entire driveline. Yes, you can ride so that it does not, but the few times you do not pay attention and compensate with your clutch and throttle, then that extra stress is on the engine.

Hope you get it tracked down quickly and easily.

Kevin

 

[rhino 2]

As for the solid comp, consensus seems to be if you keep the revs up it will be okay. Guess they don't like lugging.

Yep on the Compensator....They will complain if you lug the engine...And if you up-shift under 25 Hundred RPM'S... 3 Thousand + is best.....

 

[Firewrench22]

Thanks again all for the support.

Yeah as we know the oil temp goes up a lot slower than the head temp if you hit 3 or 4 red lights, then sit in a line at the toll booths, even with Mighty Mites.

Today I talked to another rider on a Dyna while we were waiting for the boat. He had a similar problem, cost him a bundle because he let it go too long, he was not able to work on it himself.

Went through the scan process tonight per the link from Jack. Every module said “none”. So good news/bad news, eh? No clues from Mr. ECM…

Which leads me to think it’s a mechanical issue.

I only have to go to the city 2 more days for this project, I’m going to take the car. Don’t want to break the starter or bendix or ding the flywheel.

I can suffer in the car line for a couple days. That’s the good thing about riding. Bikes go to the front of the line, first on, first off.

Of course we have a bike rally this weekend out at the beach(Ocean Shores WA). Was planning on taking both our toys, mama has her own Slingshot. Guess I might have to ride with her.

I’ll let y’all know the outcome on this. As a technician, I always liked to hear what the outcome was on a vehicle I worked on, even if it was fixed or finished on another shift.

 

[Firewrench22]

Oh yeah- that’s funny Rhino! Who upshifts at 2500?

All seriousness aside, I heard that the SE compensator is a little more stout than the one that came on my 103?

Comments?

I don’t think I’m interested in an eliminator sprocket. She’s built for comfort, not for speed.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Oh yeah- that’s funny Rhino! Who upshifts at 2500?

All seriousness aside, I heard that the SE compensator is a little more stout than the one that came on my 103?

Comments?

I don’t think I’m interested in an eliminator sprocket. She’s built for comfort, not for speed.

Yup, The Screaming Eagle compensator has gone thru quite a few upgrades and has gotten better if that is the route you want to go

But have a look here also, this one is rebuildable

https://www.fuelmotousa.com/series-221118-darkhorse-man-o-war-motorsprocket.html

 

[Firewrench22]

Ordered the Darkhorse Man O War sprocket. I’m intrigued.

My stealer didn’t have any SE compensators, BO until first week in Aug. Same with Darkhorse from Fuel Moto, not available until at least Aug 2nd. I went straight to Darkhorse, they took my money, we’ll see what happens.

Did a plug check on the pimary, lots of metal on the the Dimple magnetic drain plug. The few ounces of oil I drained has the dreaded metalflake look. She ain’t going anywhere.

Question, should I replace the chain? You know, new sprocket, new chain. Then new clutch basket too?

I figure the existing chain(46000 mi) has reached it’s happy place as far as stretch. I’ll have to babysit a new chain for a while. How long do the chains last? I guess this chain is full of that nasty oil…I have a nice Rekluse clutch in there. I love that thing, especially in heavy traffic. Guess I’ll take it apart and clean it good.

I sent a note to the folks at Darkhorse asking if they prefer spring tensioner or manual adjust.

 

[ROAD DOG]

Ordered the Darkhorse Man O War sprocket. I’m intrigued.

My stealer didn’t have any SE compensators, BO until first week in Aug. Same with Darkhorse from Fuel Moto, not available until at least Aug 2nd. I went straight to Darkhorse, they took my money, we’ll see what happens.

Did a plug check on the pimary, lots of metal on the the Dimple magnetic drain plug. The few ounces of oil I drained has the dreaded metalflake look. She ain’t going anywhere.

Question, should I replace the chain? You know, new sprocket, new chain. Then new clutch basket too?

I figure the existing chain(46000 mi) has reached it’s happy place as far as stretch. I’ll have to babysit a new chain for a while. How long do the chains last? I guess this chain is full of that nasty oil…I have a nice Rekluse clutch in there. I love that thing, especially in heavy traffic. Guess I’ll take it apart and clean it good.

I sent a note to the folks at Darkhorse asking if they prefer spring tensioner or manual adjust.

I would replace the clutch hub bearing If you can get one .

 

[Firewrench22]

Good idea, thanks. I’ll add it to my list.

 

[Jack Klarich]

I would change the chain for peace of mind

 

[NHBAGGER]

I'm running the DH comp and when it was installed, shop also did the chain.

Right now I have a Baker adjuster but trying to decide if I should go Bach to the newest version of the automatic or maybe try the Motorway Vulcan manual.

 

[ROAD DOG]

I'm running the DH comp and when it was installed, shop also did the chain.

Right now I have a Baker adjuster but trying to decide if I should go Bach to the newest version of the automatic or maybe try the Motorway Vulcan manual.

I had the dark horse in mine it was great seam quiet smoother more torque , but when my motor went south , I talked with S&S they said you should run a compensator because the stock crankshafts SUCK , I went with a Baker compensator , a stock Harley primary chain adjuster , I put a 2016 clutch hub which is a lot more heavy duty than my 2020 was , I could not get a clutch hub bearing at that time for the 2020 and put in a new chain , At idle I hear a little noise, pull the clutch in and it stops , I think they all do that ?

 

[NHBAGGER]

I had the dark horse in mine it was great seam quiet smoother more torque , but when my motor went south , I talked with S&S they said you should run a compensator because the stock crankshafts SUCK , I went with a Baker compensator , a stock Harley primary chain adjuster , I put a 2016 clutch hub which is a lot more heavy duty than my 2020 was , I could not get a clutch hub bearing at that time for the 2020 and put in a new chain , At idle I hear a little noise, pull the clutch in and it stops , I think they all do that ?

Had a Baker comp in mine originally. It galled a month or two after the warranty time. They said "sorry". Asked if they would like it mailed to them to take a look, they said no. Went with the DH compensatory.

 

[Firewrench22]

The Man O War comp showed up in just a couple days. I asked them what chain tensioner they recommend, they said use OE.

So new chain, tensioner, clutch hub bearing, oil deflector(2011didn’t have) coming from H-D.

This is a thousand dollar repair. Ouch.

On the other hand, I’ve never had an out-of-service failure in 48000 miles of smiles.

Installed a mechanical reverse a couple years ago before the motor had a chance to crap out.

I’ll let y’all know how it feels after I get it running.