What fuel? Anyone ever use Aviation fuel?

[hazel]

I just got my 02 Wide Glide Frankenstein trike. It's carburated and since it's not the time of year to ride much, a friend of mine says to put aviation fuel in the tank. He says it's the same as gasoline (not any more octane than say 91-93) but is refined lots more and has a shelf life of 10 years (as opposed to 2-3 months for gasoline). He says you could run it year around if you wanted to. <br />
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The benefit is that nothing will gel or gum-up in the carburator when the bike isn't riden much. It stays super-clean. In summer, go back to gasoline. He puts this in everything from 4-wheelers, weed-eaters, snowmobiles, generators, etc. (basically anything that sits for periods of time or doesn't get used on a regular basis).<br />
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The cost is about $1.50 a gallon more than super-unleaded and is easy to get in my area (Aviston, IL - 40 miles from St. Louis).<br />
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Anyone done this, have an opinion or other suggestion? I'm new to Harleys so I don't want to do something to damage it but it won't get ridden much until spring.

Thanks!

 

[41inWV]

I'm thinkin' a trip to the auto parts store for a bottle of Sta-Bil would be the more traditional route if your not riding for the winter. Jet fuel sounds a bit over the top to me. I use StaBil in my street rods and motorcycles if I expect them to sit through a season.

 

[mtn rider]

Sta-bil is a great product. I use it in all my equiptment when I lay it up for the winter and they start right up in the spring. Dont trust this ethonal if your your not going to be using it for a couple of months.
As for your bike just ride the heck out of it and the gas wont get old.

 

[morrishuckeba]

The best that remember that the octane is around 115 to 145. I would not put it in my bike.

 

[dcryder]

Ok regular prop engine small planes use this gas, as it is more refined last longer on the shelf than regular gas. the octane rating is no more than high test gas at the pump. it does burn at a slightly slower rate, but burns much cleaner than regular gas. I used to use it in all my race cars with a octane booster off the shelf. and as far as racing gas that is any where from 105 to 115 octane that costs about $9.00 a gallon compaired to $3.75 a gallon for airplane fuel and regular gas here in NY at $3.55 a gallon. as the aiplane mechanic told me you just can't pull over and park on a cloud to change a fuel filter. can you? He told me they (he) have been using the fuel for yrs in thier cars during the winter months and thier racecars for yrs with no problems. As he said it is a much better blend of gas that has a shelf life of at least 10 yrs, because not all small airplanes fly everyday as he said most sit more than they fly.

 

[Greydog]

Be careful!! Some Avgas is commonly rated as 100LL, meaning 100 octane Low Lead. Although it is rated "low lead" the lead content is still typically higher than was once used in automotive engines. The lead is used as an octane booster. I remember something from back in my Navy days that one grade of Avgas was rated as 100/130 with the 100 being the lean mixture for cruising and the 130 was the rich mixture for take-off. a lot of the old reciprocating aircraft engines were pretty low compression and won't run on non-leaded gasoline. I don't know about the engines in modern light aircraft....maybe they now use non-leaded??

 

[grapenuts]

Greydog, 100LL is still being used. Remember too that airplane engines must by law be overhauled every 1000 hours or so. They usually run at a constant RPM (not a lot of stop-and-go or idling at a light for an airplane) so fuel requirements are not really the same.
On the plus side, since the temperature at high altitudes is cold, the fuel has been formulated to evaporate well in winter-like conditions. Bottom line is I wouldn't use it in my tri-glide.

 

[Rsw]

I use the red Sta-Bil and never had any trouble. I use it in everything from chainsaws to cars. It's a good product that works. So for under $10.00, I can do everything me and dad own. They are still in business because it works and works good.

 

[kwputt]

All aviation gasoline is now 100 octane low lead, burns hotter,cleaner, doesn't leave a smell on you or your clothes if you spill it. It will leave more lead deposits on your plugs if you burn aviation fuel only. Being low lead it does provide less valve train lubrication than auto fuel. The aircraft engine manufacturers recommend engine overhaul between 1800 and 2400 hours, depending on engine type. The cylinders rarely make it to 1200 hours. I just replaced the cylinders on my plane last winter due to burnt valves and guides at a little over 1100 hours. My opinion is like behinds and I don't use 100 low lead in anything but the plane.

 

[Ironhorsepilot]

I used 100LL in my carbed bike when I had it. Never had a problem. When I got the TG, don't use it in that. We bring home av fuel for our lawn mower and weed eaters, chain saws here on the farm. Mainly because we have had to replace the carbs every summer due to ethanol.

 

[Phu Cat]

I hesitiate to jump in here as a new guy and say there are a lot of misconsptions about about gasoline in general. How can I be so sure? Well, I spent 15 years running Gulf Oil's Cincinnati Catalytic Cracking Unit making gasoline, heating oil, diesel, jet fuel, asphalt, etc.

Aviation gasoline is gasoline straight off the Alkylation unit. The alky unit makes the highest octane gasoline in any refinery, and that varies with refining conditions. High octane gas does not burn faster, slower, cleaner, hotter, cooler, etc. It only has more resistance to detonation. It also is not any less prone to gum up than any other gasoline.

The above recommendations to use Sta.bil are the best for any engine that's going to sit for more than a few weeks.

Again, I apologize for jumping in here like a know-it-all, but this was my occupation for a long time, one that I dearly loved!

Phu Cat

 

[msocko3]

I hesitiate to jump in here as a new guy and say there are a lot of misconsptions about about gasoline in general. How can I be so sure? Well, I spent 15 years running Gulf Oil's Cincinnati Catalytic Cracking Unit making gasoline, heating oil, diesel, jet fuel, asphalt, etc.

Aviation gasoline is gasoline straight off the Alkylation unit. The alky unit makes the highest octane gasoline in any refinery, and that varies with refining conditions. High octane gas does not burn faster, slower, cleaner, hotter, cooler, etc. It only has more resistance to detonation. It also is not any less prone to gum up than any other gasoline.

The above recommendations to use Sta.bil are the best for any engine that's going to sit for more than a few weeks.

Again, I apologize for jumping in here like a know-it-all, but this was my occupation for a long time, one that I dearly loved!

Phu Cat

You have 15 years experience, you know more and have more experience than I do and I welcome your input. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[Ol' Grey]

No expert here, but playing the Devil's Advocate for the sake of conversation

Have used Stabil before and agree that it has real value as an additive. Haven't ever used aviation fuel in any bikes, but have heard of owners of small aircraft who use aviation fuel in their personal vehicles (carburated ? fuel injected ? I dunno) There's even mixed opinion in this thread from owners of small aircraft and/or racers.

Recently heard of a fuel additive for motor vehicles called "Barely Street Legal" that's supposed to contain some amount of aviation fuel.

Phu Cat wrote: "High octane gas does not burn faster, slower, cleaner, hotter, cooler, etc. It only has more resistance to detonation."

In all due respects and once again, only playing the Devil's Advocate, LOL! Detonation is commonly known as "pinging". To resolve that, manufacturers advise using a higher octane fuel. In my limited knowledge, it's my understanding that the higher the octane rating, the slower the burn, the more complete and cleaner the combustion, which contradicts the above quote.

I don't have a horse in this race as it's unlikely that I'll ever bother using aviation fuel in my bikes, but I always use the highest octane rated gas from the pump on any carburated bike, regardless of manufacturers recommendations of being able to use a lesser octane rating in some bikes.

 

[ronchi]

i always use SEAFOAM for keeping fuel fresh.also great for carberator bikes.helps keep the carbs clean.another goor product is startron additive ,mostly sold in marine stores.everybody has a personal choice goodluck with yours.rde safe / be safe !!!

 

[Phu Cat]

the more complete and cleaner the combustion

Ol Grey, The only way I've every been able to explain "light" and "heavy" to someone that does not work in the oil business is to use an analogy of a deck of cards. Ones and two would be the lighter hydrocarbons like butane and propane and nines and tens are the heaviest, like asphalt. Gasoline would be about a 4 thru 5. The reason I say 4 THRU 5 is because there is a small amount of oil left in our gasolines beccause it would would not be cost effective to refine it another step.

So, to get your gasoline to burn cleaner, it would take that additional step to get the 5s separated out of the 4s. Besides, you could use regular in a Harley engine if you made sure you kept the RPMs up and then look at your plugs to see if they're any darker than running premium. I'm sure they won't be, because the 'distillation end point' the lab techs run will be the same whether they're tunning a distillation end point test on regular or premium.

If you're really that curious, please cut and paste what I've written above and put it in a letter to your favorite oil company and ask them if what I've tried to explain is correct.

Phu Cat

 

[Razorback Trike Rider]

As an aircraft mechanic with 30+ years experience, I feel the need to add my 2 cents worth here. 100LL is the only aviation fuel available for piston engines these days, and the earlier post about it actually having a high lead content is true. Plugs will foul in aircraft when the engines are running at low rpm's and not leaned out with the mixture control, and this cant be done on a car or bike. Using avgas in a vehicle will help if an engine is having detonation problems, but that is highly unlikely on modern EFI engines. Also, as a note to KWPutt, is sounds like you are leaning out too much and causing burnt valves. If you dont have an EGT, get one and save yourself a lot of money on engine repairs.

 

[Ol' Grey]

the more complete and cleaner the combustion

Ol Grey, The only way I've every been able to explain "light" and "heavy" to someone that does not work in the oil business is to use an analogy of a deck of cards. Ones and two would be the lighter hydrocarbons like butane and propane and nines and tens are the heaviest, like asphalt. Gasoline would be about a 4 thru 5. The reason I say 4 THRU 5 is because there is a small amount of oil left in our gasolines beccause it would would not be cost effective to refine it another step.

So, to get your gasoline to burn cleaner, it would take that additional step to get the 5s separated out of the 4s. Besides, you could use regular in a Harley engine if you made sure you kept the RPMs up and then look at your plugs to see if they're any darker than running premium. I'm sure they won't be, because the 'distillation end point' the lab techs run will be the same whether they're tunning a distillation end point test on regular or premium.

If you're really that curious, please cut and paste what I've written above and put it in a letter to your favorite oil company and ask them if what I've tried to explain is correct.

Phu Cat

Thanx, Phu Cat.......Here's a couple links, first one is more technical, second one has a couple pages continued.......

Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HowStuffWorks "What does octane mean?"

I respectfully defer to your experience and knowledge on this subject and I stand corrected on the "the more complete and cleaner the combustion".

Not entirely sure if I'm wrong about higher octane burning slower as if I've read the above info correctly, the higher octane ignites later under compression and burns in a more controlled manner.

According to the first article, it also says that I'm wasting $$$ when using a higher than needed octane than a manufacturer might suggest, but being set in my ways, will continue spending those extra pennies, LOL! I remember when Leaded Hi-Test was the preferred choice for most bikes years ago. When leaded fuel was taken off the market, folks were asking which Unleaded fuel to use and Harley recommended the highest octane rating available. Articles say to use high octane for higher compression engines, but the older Harleys weren't exactly high compression in their stock form. Even still, Harley recommended using the higher octane. Could be H-D was winging it and guessing with the introduction of the new Unleaded fuels, I dunno, but I got in the habit then and still use the higher octane (whether rightly or wrongly :Shrug

None the less, I apologize for my ignorance wherever stated and thank you for your valued input ThumbUp

Ride Safe

 

[Biker-Dave]

I had as a first bike a 1977 GS750. Working in aviation I had access to 100LL, being young and often spending my hard earned money on foolish thing like beer, pizza, and dates. I would often find my self low on funds and fuel. I would go sump a truck and keep some out for my self. Now mind you, my bike had four pipes running out of it. I took the mufflers off so I could sound cool! Please....I know...I was just a kid then. Every time I would get on it, and that was often, when I would roll off the gas...big blue balls of flame would shoot out of the pipes. LOL I thought that was the bomb. I sold that bike to get into sport touring. A 1984 V-65 Sabre, the fastest production bike of it's time. No need for 100LL. It was faster then the plane I was learning to fly in. Well most thing are faster then a 152. BTW I could not afford learning to fly, motorcycles, and beer-pizza-dates, so something had to go.

 

[Rsw]

Just started a tiller today that has been stored for two winters without being started. I used the red Sta-Bil in it when we put it away. Had about a half tank of gas in it so I toped it of with freash. It fired on the fourth pull and was running on the sixth. Let it warm up for about 30 seconds on half choke and never missed a beat all day. I am 100 percent sold on the stuff.

 

[GARYD]

I've always used StaBil in all my gas engines for storage. Now I just ride all winter so no need for anything in the gas.

I have always used 87 octain gas in all my vehicles. Once in a while on track days with my Vette club I would put in 91 octane for the most power I could get, but day to day driving in my Vettes or Harleys, they only get 87 and have for at least the last 30 years - no engine problems what so ever. Every article I've ever read said that almost all newer vehicles can run fine on 87. If your owners manual says "requires" then you need to to use premium, but if it says "recommends" then you can safely use 87. Also if you have a high performance vehicle, you will probably need premium.

I refuse to give our enemies any more money then I have to. Period.
If it makes you feel better to use premium, that's great.
I feel better knowing I'm saving money - as little as it is, but it's still saved money........and I have no engine problems. ThumbUp