Thoughts and ideas on power steering for a trike

[diver]

Ive converted equipment over to power steering on old equipment using parts out of the old fords and chevys.( slave cylinder and actuators).. I have been thinking of converting my trike over to power steering. The push pull of the trike steering is killing my shoulders after about an hour of riding. There are company's out there that also make complete hydraulic steering only. I do not want electric assist as its to bulky for one front wheel although lite weight is a plus. Ive noticed that trikes with long front ends with heavy engines in front use leverage assist with being able to move the steering links in of out to change the ratio.
Anyone else floated the power steering idea around?

 

[stacebg]

Ive converted equipment over to power steering on old equipment using parts out of the old fords and chevys.( slave cylinder and actuators).. I have been thinking of converting my trike over to power steering. The push pull of the trike steering is killing my shoulders after about an hour of riding. There are company's out there that also make complete hydraulic steering only. I do not want electric assist as its to bulky for one front wheel although lite weight is a plus. Ive noticed that trikes with long front ends with heavy engines in front use leverage assist with being able to move the steering links in of out to change the ratio.
Anyone else floated the power steering idea around?

unless you are going with a steering box ... steering on a trike is so sensitive i doubt you would be able to control it
if you get the trail right you will have power steering...imo the work to do the hydraulic conversion compared to fixing the trail would be crazy.....what do yo have for a front end now?? you can make a LL front end or even a set of trees might be some available... bazooka here has some

 

[diver]

unless you are going with a steering box ... steering on a trike is so sensitive i doubt you would be able to control it
if you get the trail right you will have power steering...imo the work to do the hydraulic conversion compared to fixing the trail would be crazy.....what do yo have for a front end now?? you can make a LL front end or even a set of trees might be some available... bazooka here has some

I just built a leading link and have 2 3/4 inch trail. new neck at i believe 38 degs. It is a lot easier than my old set up but still hard on my shoulders. I have no low speed wobble at all like i had before the winter make over . Just at speed the sharp turns on these NH roads require a lot of push pull:xzqxz: . 650lbs on front wheel, just hard on my shoulders. On the highways its a dream to drive

 

[stacebg]

I just built a leading link and have 2 3/4 inch trail. new neck at i believe 38 degs. It is a lot easier than my old set up but still hard on my shoulders. I have no low speed wobble at all like i had before the winter make over . Just at speed the sharp turns on these NH roads require a lot of push pull:xzqxz: . 650lbs on front wheel, just hard on my shoulders. On the highways its a dream to drive

i would try making some longer "swing arms" to shorten the trail a little more, worth a try

 

[diver]

i would try making some longer "swing arms" to shorten the trail a little more, worth a try

Thanks, that is worth a shot. maybe a winter project again..

 

[stacebg]

is it much more than a couplr bars w 3 holes each??

 

[diver]

is it much more than a couplr bars w 3 holes each??

Yea like a whole new lower swing arm, welding in brake caliper mounts , drilling and reaming holes for the pivot bushings. Drilling and reaming holes for axle, weld in new shock mounts . Lots going on in that small package lol. Hate to mess it up and not have it work. Maybe just make two arms with no brakes or fender mount just to try. Something crude but effective just to try

 

[stacebg]

Yea like a whole new lower swing arm, welding in brake caliper mounts , drilling and reaming holes for the pivot bushings. Drilling and reaming holes for axle, weld in new shock mounts . Lots going on in that small package lol. Hate to mess it up and not have it work. Maybe just make two arms with no brakes or fender mount just to try. Something crude but effective just to try

i think i may have an idea for you might work
if you like post a side view and top view a lot closer than the one you posted before
in our hobbies we need to learn to cheat a lot... been there done that!!
stace

 

[diver]

i think i may have an idea for you might work
if you like post a side view and top view a lot closer than the one you posted before
in our hobbies we need to learn to cheat a lot... been there done that!!
stace

here is a side will get top later today

 

[stacebg]

hope u can understand my scratch marks
if you like you can give me a call 860-623-2547

 

[BMB Guns]

I've considered power steering for my project but everyone assured me that proper trail will be the best solution. I'm even building rake adjustment into the steering neck so I can tweek it later if needed. Everything changes trail. Rake, tire size in the front or back, suspension changes, etc. Negative trail is bad of course. I'll be following your progress and would really like to know what your current trail is and whatever trail you end up with, how it changed the way the trike handles, etc. Please keep us posted.

 

[stacebg]

I've considered power steering for my project but everyone assured me that proper trail will be the best solution. I'm even building rake adjustment into the steering neck so I can tweek it later if needed. Everything changes trail. Rake, tire size in the front or back, suspension changes, etc. Negative trail is bad of course. I'll be following your progress and would really like to know what your current trail is and whatever trail you end up with, how it changed the way the trike handles, etc. Please keep us posted.

bmb thought you might like to know changing the rake in the neck doesnt have any wheres near the same affect as changing the trees
i did some quick figures with some random starting dimentions
used 25 in tall tire
33 degrees frame rake with the offsets i used gives 5.4" of trail
i then deraked the frame 5 degrees now at
28 degrees give 4.1" trail only1.3" difference
then with the frame back at the original 33 degrees i raked the trees 5 degrees
this gives 2.27" trail which is 3.13" difrference

hope that helps

 

[diver]

I know i followed just about all the info was given to me. My original neck was 30 ,I raked out my trees and had 2 1/2 inchs trail. I could steer but way to heavy and lots of low speed wobble. I put in a new dom neck set the rake at 38 and and had my trees made for me by a machine shop in town. No low speed wobble steers easy not moving but at 40 mph up the steering gets hard on sharp turns. On the highway this cruses like a dream at 70 mph. I look at the front wheel as a top and once spinning it just wants to stay straight. lol I get no pulling like the old set was. Maybe im just to weenie for the push pull steering

 

[stacebg]

I know i followed just about all the info was given to me. My original neck was 30 ,I raked out my trees and had 2 1/2 inchs trail. I could steer but way to heavy and lots of low speed wobble. I put in a new dom neck set the rake at 38 and and had my trees made for me by a machine shop in town. No low speed wobble steers easy not moving but at 40 mph up the steering gets hard on sharp turns. On the highway this cruses like a dream at 70 mph. I look at the front wheel as a top and once spinning it just wants to stay straight. lol I get no pulling like the old set was. Maybe im just to weenie for the push pull steering

i do agree about the "top" as it is a gyroscope which makes the wheel want to lean if you try to turn it.... which is how a 2 wheeler "handles / turns" but i dont think this i a BIG factor here.
i find 1.5 - 2.5 inches of trail works very well...
my v max trike had a stock front end took 3 men and a boy to turn it ... about an hr or so an i wanted to stop....... and yes i know what your back roads are like i made a set of trees got the trail down to about 2 .... i can ride around all day and not be sore at all....in fact 900 or 1000 miles in a weekend is not uncommon for me..... a friend had a servicar raked frame trike, rolling just down a hill i most ran into the building cuz i wasnt strong enough to turn it, probably 8 inches of trail.... i cut the frame so the rake was close to stock an made a set of trees,,,, go riding around w one hand was easy.>
if i understand you right your steering is easier with 2-3/4 trail than 2-1/2
i am thinking you may have had a bit more than 2.5 with the hard pull and wobble.... i find most of the wobble goes away when the trail is low.... long as the rear wheels are balanced an the neck bearing are not ready to fall out.. and it seams odd that there would be a big a difference in a 1/4 inch... just for chuckles do you have a hollow stem or is it solid??

 

[diver]

i do agree about the "top" as it is a gyroscope which makes the wheel want to lean if you try to turn it.... which is how a 2 wheeler "handles / turns" but i dont think this i a BIG factor here.
i find 1.5 - 2.5 inches of trail works very well...
my v max trike had a stock front end took 3 men and a boy to turn it ... about an hr or so an i wanted to stop....... and yes i know what your back roads are like i made a set of trees got the trail down to about 2 .... i can ride around all day and not be sore at all....in fact 900 or 1000 miles in a weekend is not uncommon for me..... a friend had a servicar raked frame trike, rolling just down a hill i most ran into the building cuz i wasnt strong enough to turn it, probably 8 inches of trail.... i cut the frame so the rake was close to stock an made a set of trees,,,, go riding around w one hand was easy.>
if i understand you right your steering is easier with 2-3/4 trail than 2-1/2
i am thinking you may have had a bit more than 2.5 with the hard pull and wobble.... i find most of the wobble goes away when the trail is low.... long as the rear wheels are balanced an the neck bearing are not ready to fall out.. and it seams odd that there would be a big a difference in a 1/4 inch... just for chuckles do you have a hollow stem or is it solid??

Its a solid grade 8 bolt i bought from mc master carr. I will check trail again when my help comes home. (wife). I have no wobble now at all and i can ride one hand but no way in hell can i turn at speed on back roads one hand.lol. All my history of this set up is posted here , hard for my ol mind to remember .
UPdate my trail is 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 so hard for me to be more accurate with all the crap on trike.

So your thinking i should move my axle toward front of swing arm to lower trail?

 

[stacebg]

Its a solid grade 8 bolt i bought from mc master carr. I will check trail again when my help comes home. (wife). I have no wobble now at all and i can ride one hand but no way in hell can i turn at speed on back roads one hand.lol. All my history of this set up is posted here , hard for my ol mind to remember .
UPdate my trail is 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 so hard for me to be more accurate with all the crap on trike.

So your thinking i should move my axle toward front of swing arm to lower trail?

Reason I asked about but the hole.. i find one of the most accurate ways to measure the trail..... if you take the tire off and could looked out through the hole you can pick a spot on the floor make mark... from there to the center of tire is your trail
of course you have t have the trike at the same height for all the measurements

i really wouldnt think it would be that hard with that trail.... do u by chance have a posie rear?

i would try that first

 

[diver]

No posi , The trike does not pull it tracks straight and true. let go of handle bars and all is fine. Its turning sharp corners that kill me. the pull and pushing on handle bars to negotiate a sharp turn is hard as trike wants to go straight .lol

 

[stacebg]

No posi , The trike does not pull it tracks straight and true. let go of handle bars and all is fine. Its turning sharp corners that kill me. the pull and pushing on handle bars to negotiate a sharp turn is hard as trike wants to go straight .lol

no posi is a good thing
have a look at this... how i made this all seem right...
the more trail you have the more it wants to go straight an the faster you go same thing

 

[diver]

Ok, i think i know where im messing up on trail. With no load on trike my trail is around 2 1/2 now with my wife and i on trike the trail increases to three as the link is compressed upward and toward back and thereby increasing trail.. So maybe i do need to move axle 1 1/2 inch to front . Am i correct stacebg.. I could do that fairly easily like on your drawing

 

[stacebg]

Ok, i think i know where im messing up on trail. With no load on trike my trail is around 2 1/2 now with my wife and i on trike the trail increases to three as the link is compressed upward and toward back and thereby increasing trail.. So maybe i do need to move axle 1 1/2 inch to front . Am i correct stacebg.. I could do that fairly easily like on your drawing

good place to start
thats a lot of change... you might want to think about moving the pivot point back a ways too..(winter project).. not a big job,,, a couple dog legs at the bottom of the tubes and a longer swing arm.... your trail wont be affected as much, you will get more travel thus a better ride if it comes to a new swing arm i would opt for a pce of tube behind the tire rather than bare..stac

stace