Se 255 Cams

[rodn]

I know we have talked about this some, but I guess I'm gonna go with SE 255 cams. My question to anyone using them - have you had any problems with CCP ?
I would appreciate any input from anyone.

 

[kimber45]

I have 255's. They work for me.

 

[delta]

My question to anyone using them - have you had any problems with CCP ?
I would appreciate any input from anyone.

Had the 255s installed last month. A few days later I had the CCPs checked by an indy, the result Front=225 Rear=224. Sure am glad I have ACRs on this bike. My 2008 with the 103 and 255s did not and it was problematic at times. Replaced a ring gear, compensator, starter, under warranty, at various times.
I like them in the trike; but remember it still weighs 1200 lbs. Cams will not turn it into a rocket. You still have the same motor as all the lighter bikes.

 

[msocko3]

I have the 255's...Work great for me...75 mph at 3,000 rpm in 6th gear...

MPH and RPM would be the same no matter what cam is installed.

 

[msocko3]

Had the 255s installed last month. A few days later I had the CCPs checked by an indy, the result Front=225 Rear=224. Sure am glad I have ACRs on this bike. My 2008 with the 103 and 255s did not and it was problematic at times. Replaced a ring gear, compensator, starter, under warranty, at various times.
I like them in the trike; but remember it still weighs 1200 lbs. Cams will not turn it into a rocket. You still have the same motor as all the lighter bikes.

Wow, 225 & 224 CCP, I knew it was high from some calculations I ran just never checked it. I know with the Wood TW555 the CCP on my dads is 186 front 187 rear, IMO the mid 180's is about the max for a trike. Running 200+ CCP leaves little to no room for mistakes in the tune and fuel quality. There are so many cams out there which will do a much better job, they just cost a little more money than the SE line of cams.

 

[Moneywoes]

CCP with SE255's and no headwork on a 103"( assuming head chambers are about 88cc and .045 headgasket ) should be around 193-194 at sea level and be lower at elevation. Don't see how CCP can be 220+ unless heads were decked and .030 headgasket was used. A .030 headgasket and 85cc chambers would get the CCP up around 223-224.

Using
http://bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm calculator

 

[delta]

Don't really know what the numbers mean. I think my 2008 was similar. The bike runs strong and I finally got what spark knock I had on the front cyl eliminated. Much better acceleration then stock. I've always had good luck with the SE product line which is why I went with it.

 

[msocko3]

CCP with SE255's and no headwork on a 103"( assuming head chambers are about 88cc and .045 headgasket ) should be around 193-194 at sea level and be lower at elevation. Don't see how CCP can be 220+ unless heads were decked and .030 headgasket was used. A .030 headgasket and 85cc chambers would get the CCP up around 223-224.

Using
http://bigboyzheadporting.com/TwinCamComp.htm calculator

If your getting an 88cc chamber there is something wrong, a good average is 85cc's with an occasional 86 thrown in for good measure. Using an 85cc chamber will give you 200 ccp, even 193 - 194 ccp is stiff in a 1,200 lb trike. Any ccp in the 195+ range doesn't leave any room for lugging, poor gear selection or fuel quality for the given load unless a pisspot load of timing had been removed which brings about its own problems, mainly heat.

Using 85cc and a .045 head gasket and the Wood TW555 cam the ccp comes in at 186 which is dead on what my dads came in at.

 

[Buddy WMC]

If your getting an 88cc chamber there is something wrong, a good average is 85cc's with an occasional 86 thrown in for good measure. Using an 85cc chamber will give you 200 ccp, even 193 - 194 ccp is stiff in a 1,200 lb trike. Any ccp in the 195+ range doesn't leave any room for lugging, poor gear selection or fuel quality for the given load unless a pisspot load of timing had been removed which brings about its own problems, mainly heat.

Using 85cc and a .045 head gasket and the Wood TW555 cam the ccp comes in at 186 which is dead on what my dads came in at.

M3 makes a good point. However, I'm running 255's and am very pleased with them. No problems here at sea level and I can get good quality fuel. The other important thing is the tune. Mine is dead on and I have had no detonation or pinging, but never lug the engine.

 

[JJHog]

What is the stock CAM in a 2013 TG?

 

[Mr.Wizard]

What is the stock CAM in a 2013 TG?

Nobody really knows.

Should be about a 480 lift and 198 duration.

 

[Moneywoes]

If your getting an 88cc chamber there is something wrong, a good average is 85cc's with an occasional 86 thrown in for good measure. Using an 85cc chamber will give you 200 ccp, even 193 - 194 ccp is stiff in a 1,200 lb trike. Any ccp in the 195+ range doesn't leave any room for lugging, poor gear selection or fuel quality for the given load unless a pisspot load of timing had been removed which brings about its own problems, mainly heat.

Using 85cc and a .045 head gasket and the Wood TW555 cam the ccp comes in at 186 which is dead on what my dads came in at.

M3,

I thought CCP was only important when starting the bike, starter wear/kickback/etc. Once the bike is running isn't corrected compression a more important measure for fuel quality/pinging ect. I know they are all somewhat related, what raises CC also tends to raise CCP and visa versa. Generally when I hear about a bikes runnability or performance they are using static compression and or corrected compression. Usually when someone is talking about hard starting\cranking they use CCP. I've been told that the twincam head chambers can vary from 84-89cc. Have no idea what its supposed to be.

Getting a engine with a 84cc on one cyl and 89cc on the other would be messed up for sure though:gah:

If you feel like giving me a short school on CCP vs CC I'd be interested.

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

Had the 255s installed last month. A few days later I had the CCPs checked by an indy, the result Front=225 Rear=224. Sure am glad I have ACRs on this bike. My 2008 with the 103 and 255s did not and it was problematic at times. Replaced a ring gear, compensator, starter, under warranty, at various times.

I like them in the trike; but remember it still weighs 1200 lbs. Cams will not turn it into a rocket. You still have the same motor as all the lighter bikes.

Here is a quote from a engine builder/motorcycle shop in Texas who got a bike in with 255 cams>>

"I pump the motor with ACR'S disabled.. 219 CCP a hole ,

I bore scope the engine, gold cylinders, baked oil across the piston ( rear) front one has a third of the carbon washed clean from too much fuel.. and is a little better than rear.

I put it on the drum..

bring it up to 190 degrees ( engine has a chit ton of valve train noise) get the bike into 5th gear for the pull.. I rolled into it,, engine starts to pinging so bad that customer standing outside booth can hear it.. ping starts out the hole at 2000 and stops just shy of 4000 then the afr heads north to 17.5 .

I had looked at the map I pulled from his SEST not much done to it really other than they ran the AFR table rich and pulled a ton of timing out.. no changes to VE tables what so ever.

He decides that he wants the oil usage and noise issue looked into.. Oil usage= easy someone thought that a ball hone over the factory hone " since the bike had several thousand un tuned miles on it with a stage 1" for the new SST titanium rings would be the hot ticket..

Valve train noise.. I was not aware that the CNC heads on factory casting from HD needed 208 lbs of spring pressure on the seat for a 1.875 valve.... all of this pressure on those great C lifters ..

Blown away at this set up..."



High CCP is possible with the 255 cams.....run away as fast as you can from these cams!!!

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

With my limited understanding on cam dynamics ,the 225 cams raise the pressure inside the cylinder is so high along with the short duration and the overlap these cams have its not bleeding off enough pressure to allow the engine to properly discharge and fill causing the starter to work harder and the engine to make more heat than it should.

Basically the opening and closing of the lobes on the cams do not work efficiently with the longer stroke of the current HD engines

 

[1852cc]

I have been running SE255's on my 2009 Road Glide/Lehman, with Big Sucker air, and Thunder Max , and 4" SE slip on mufflers. I am not sure it being a 96ci motor matters, but have had no pinging or starting issues at all.
I ride all over at different altitudes, as high as 14,270 feet at Mt. Evans, and down to sea level. Always 2 up loaded down and the wheel chair for the wife,
makes good power, good mileage (38 to 40mpg), heat not a issue (12 row Jag cooler).
Of course I have been riding 50 plus years, never lug it, never below 2500 rpm
in any gear.
So does it being a 96ci motor make a difference?

 

[msocko3]

I have been running SE255's on my 2009 Road Glide/Lehman, with Big Sucker air, and Thunder Max , and 4" SE slip on mufflers. I am not sure it being a 96ci motor matters, but have had no pinging or starting issues at all.
I ride all over at different altitudes, as high as 14,270 feet at Mt. Evans, and down to sea level. Always 2 up loaded down and the wheel chair for the wife,
makes good power, good mileage (38 to 40mpg), heat not a issue (12 row Jag cooler).
Of course I have been riding 50 plus years, never lug it, never below 2500 rpm
in any gear.
So does it being a 96ci motor make a difference?

The SE255 is a great cam for the 96" Twin Cam, a lot of folks running them and quite happy. The CCP for a 96" with the SE255 should fall in the mid 190's, high but not like the 200+ of the 103 with that cam.

 

[msocko3]

M3,

I thought CCP was only important when starting the bike, starter wear/kickback/etc. Once the bike is running isn't corrected compression a more important measure for fuel quality/pinging ect. I know they are all somewhat related, what raises CC also tends to raise CCP and visa versa. Generally when I hear about a bikes runnability or performance they are using static compression and or corrected compression. Usually when someone is talking about hard starting\cranking they use CCP. I've been told that the twincam head chambers can vary from 84-89cc. Have no idea what its supposed to be. Getting a engine with a 84cc on one cyl and 89cc on the other would be messed up for sure though:gah:

If you feel like giving me a short school on CCP vs CC I'd be interested.

Surprising enough HD cylinder heads have gotten a little more consistent with combustion chamber volume. Yes cylinder pressure at TDC on the compression stroke on a running engine will be lower than the CCP, but it gets a whole lot more complicated when you start throwing in cam overlap, ignition timing, engine heat and fuel quality etc.

Here is a short little post I typed up in February, it will either answer some of your questions or add too them, I hope it helps.

http://www.triketalk.com/forum/harle...tml#post145658

 

[Moneywoes]

M3

Read your posted link, read the entire thread. I pretty much had a basic understanding of most. I've been doing alot of reading on cams lately. I do get turned around when overlap,LSA, timing ect are thrown into the equation.

I put my bike in the shop Tuesday afternoon for a cam install. Builder was removing the heads to measure chamber CC to get compression right. I was anticipating the heads decked to 85cc and a .030 gasket. He called me and informed me that the trike has been ran hot appartently often and the cylinder bores cross hatch is worn smooth and signs of oil burning. I bought the trike used and have about 1200 mile of the 9000 miles on the trike. It hasn't used oil that I have noticed, nor did it smoke or smell of oil.

The previous owner had V&H 2-1-2 headpipe and heavy breather intake and SERT tuner put on it at the 1K service to address heat issues. He had already put RC component 4" mufflers on it from purchase. I don't know if the mufflers themselves leaned it out enough to run extremely hot, if he idled for extended periods, the SERT tune( canned I believe, PO didn't have it dynoed that I know of) was extremely lean or what.

The trike hasn't felt all that hot for the last 1200 miles. My 08 FLHTCU with 255's felt hotter.

Anyways we decided that a cylinder bore and hone and new pistons were in order. This will make it 105" instaed of 103" I think now the chambers will still be 85cc, but he'll probably need to use a .040 headgasket instead of a .030. I anticipate a static compression around 10:12, Corrected compression of 9:2, and CCP 190 at sea level and 187 at 600 ft. (Fort Worth TX) with the Genisis 577 cam we're using. Intake lift .577 Duration 243 Open20* close 43* Exhaust lift .555 Duration 238 open 43* close 15* Overlap 35* LSA 102.75* Centerlines intake 101.5 exhaust 104.

I probably could have got away without the bore/hone/pistons for awhile, but problems were going to come sooner or later. Hopefully now I'll end up with a cool running trike with respectable roll on torque and relaibility and maybe a little bump in MPG. Will be tuning with the PV.

Its only $$$.

 

[msocko3]

M3

Read your posted link, read the entire thread. I pretty much had a basic understanding of most. I've been doing alot of reading on cams lately. I do get turned around when overlap,LSA, timing ect are thrown into the equation.

I put my bike in the shop Tuesday afternoon for a cam install. Builder was removing the heads to measure chamber CC to get compression right. I was anticipating the heads decked to 85cc and a .030 gasket. He called me and informed me that the trike has been ran hot appartently often and the cylinder bores cross hatch is worn smooth and signs of oil burning. I bought the trike used and have about 1200 mile of the 9000 miles on the trike. It hasn't used oil that I have noticed, nor did it smoke or smell of oil.

The previous owner had V&H 2-1-2 headpipe and heavy breather intake and SERT tuner put on it at the 1K service to address heat issues. He had already put RC component 4" mufflers on it from purchase. I don't know if the mufflers themselves leaned it out enough to run extremely hot, if he idled for extended periods, the SERT tune( canned I believe, PO didn't have it dynoed that I know of) was extremely lean or what.

The trike hasn't felt all that hot for the last 1200 miles. My 08 FLHTCU with 255's felt hotter.

Anyways we decided that a cylinder bore and hone and new pistons were in order. This will make it 105" instaed of 103" I think now the chambers will still be 85cc, but he'll probably need to use a .040 headgasket instead of a .030. I anticipate a static compression around 10:12, Corrected compression of 9:2, and CCP 190 at sea level and 187 at 600 ft. (Fort Worth TX) with the Genisis 577 cam we're using. Intake lift .577 Duration 243 Open20* close 43* Exhaust lift .555 Duration 238 open 43* close 15* Overlap 35* LSA 102.75* Centerlines intake 101.5 exhaust 104.

I probably could have got away without the bore/hone/pistons for awhile, but problems were going to come sooner or later. Hopefully now I'll end up with a cool running trike with respectable roll on torque and relaibility and maybe a little bump in MPG. Will be tuning with the PV.

Its only $$$.

The one down side to an air cooled engine is the heat, getting caught up in a traffic jam or some nasty stop n go will make engine temp soar to an unhealthy level, same thing can be said about a bad tune. Steve at GMR is one of the best, he'll get you rolling along in no time with more power and a better cooler running engine.

 

[engprosinc]

Wow, 225 & 224 CCP, I knew it was high from some calculations I ran just never checked it. I know with the Wood TW555 the CCP on my dads is 186 front 187 rear, IMO the mid 180's is about the max for a trike. Running 200+ CCP leaves little to no room for mistakes in the tune and fuel quality. There are so many cams out there which will do a much better job, they just cost a little more money than the SE line of cams.

What is CCP? Cold compression?
Thanks