Type 2/4 automatic transmission

[MdKnightMan]

Hi I found a rebuilt type 2/4 automatic transmission really cheap at a time when I am ready for one in my build.



My frame is set up for a type 1 and I wanted to find out if someone has done this conversion and whats involved. All I can find are numerous mentions of type 3 autos but no type 2.

All my research could find is articles putting a type 2 MANUAL in a type 1.

I don't know how to support it or how to shift it and I do not know what to do about the cv joints and axles. I cant even find a diagram of the Type 2 original shift linkage.

Not like the old days when you could just go to the junkyard and look at how its set up and supported.

This is where it is going.



As always, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[stinger608]

Hmm, that may be somewhat of an issue for sure man.

I have not ever did suck a conversion but hopefully someone on the VDub forums will have some experience.

Have you checked or posted in the Samba forums yet?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/

There are some very highly experienced members on The Samba and there may be information in the forums regarding a conversion for that transmission.

 

[MdKnightMan]

Thanks, I did research it there also and nothing however, it didn't dawn on me to post this there also until you mentioned it but I have posted it there now.

 

[Loner]

While I have not specifically done the adaptation you describe, I have done some work with T3 auto into std IRS suspension. And so far as I am concerned, most anything is possible if you follow some basics. So, here goes.

1) First, the basic measurement which is a must is the alignment of the drive axles (tranny and the wheels). Establish those measurements to set the positioning of the T4 tranny.

2) I find it easiest to use a strap-down aftermarket tranny mount kit (see photo below) - and they are actually available for adapting a T4 tranny (straight shift) to a T1 framehorn - look closely at photos of the T1 type strap-down kits vs. the T4 to T1 kits to select what you think will be best for you. The T1 kit actually cradles the automatic bellhousing a bit better for my use with T3 autos, but you decide for your project.

3) Install rear mount on framehorns and set tranny in its ideal position to align axles. Notice that lower frame support can be reversed to better fit the longer T4 auto if needed.

4) You will likely need to modify the front tranny mount bracket to fit your needs, but hopefully it will be better than starting from scratch.

5) With these components and a bit of modifying, you should hopefully be able to get the auto basically secured in your frame.

6) You will need to adapt some axles with the T4 CVJs on the inside and the T1 CVJs on the outside. You may actually have to come up with a set of the T4 auto drive axles to do that adapting, but I suspect no major type adapting should be necessary (but I can't guarantee since I haven't specifically done that). I know the T3 autos have 2 different length axles, so they are a necessity in that case.

Without getting too deep into the specifics, those are some basics as I would approach the situation. I find that aircooled.net and jbugs are both pretty good sources for tranny mounts and also have some adapter components. Both carry the strap-down kits I mentioned in 2) above (photo below).

Good luck. As always, my advice is guaranteed our your money back.

PS, I do hope you got the flex plate and torque converter with the tranny.

 

[MdKnightMan]

Thanks.

You brought up a lot of good points.

And yes, it comes with the torque converter and the type 4 engine I am looking at already is set up for auto.

 

[vwbug72501]

For what its worth (I haven't looked at this trans.), will the front body of the type 4 auto trans fit between the type 1 frame horns? Sure looks wider than the manual trans. If I remember correctly, the type 4s had the trans supported from the front mount, the top of the bellhousing, and the rear of the engine with no frame horns underneath. You may have to end up cutting up a nice looking frame to accomplish your goal. Measure, draw a picture, go away, think about it. Return. Repeat (several times). Then proceed. You should be OK. Good Luck and post pictures of your build.

 

[MdKnightMan]

So something that was brought up in SAMBA, a guy mentioned the final gear ratio of a type 2/Vanagon 010 Trans vs the 003 Type 3 automatic. 65 mph would require 4000 rpms due to the lower gearing.

If you aint doing 70 plus round here, you get run over.

 

[vwbug72501]

Are your calculations based on the stock type 4 tires? What size tires are you going to run?

http://www.crawlpedia.com/rpm_gear_calculator.htm might help get a better picture.

 

[MdKnightMan]

I will be running the Porsche 5.5 inch X 15, 5x130 pattern with the 45 mm offset

This site shows the tire size that wheel will accommodate
http://rimringz.com/pages.php?pageid=62

This site shows what diameter tire those sizes equate to
https://tiresize.com/chart/

According to research (found 2 sites)
http://www.thegoldenbug.com/en/vw_technical_articles/d70/vw_beetle_gear_ratios
and
http://www.ratwell.com/mirror/sandlizrd.baja.com/gears.htm

The final ratio for the 010 Automatic Transmission is 4.83:1 so a 195/50R15 is 22", while a 205/70R15 has a 26" diameter,the smallest and largest tires for my rims. So, according to the calculation chart (thank you vwbug72501) at 80 mph my rpms would need to be between 5901 and 4993.

Meanwhile the rpms of the Type 1 manual IRS and the Type 3 auto IRS at 3.67:1 using the same tire size and speed are 4484-3794

A much more "doable speed" at my budget. So type 3 automatic or a manual it is.