Rough Idle/engine stops

[paid4c4]

I have a 2006 GW1800 with 22K miles. I just had the brake recall completed, all fluids changed and the dealer attempted to repair the intermittent reverse. The dealer swapped out all the major components in the reverse system short of the starter. However the intermittent problem continues. The dealer didn't charge me for the swaps as he couldn't fix it. The SM told me when things are a little slower this winter they will try and run down the problem. I'm not unhappy with the dealer as I think they tried and as we all know intermittent problems are the worst to diagnose and repair. I'm only including this so you'll have a little recent history for the GW. Prior to this the GW always ran strong and smooth. The first of this problem started when I stopped at a stop sign and the engine stopped.

I restarted it and drove on.

Then when Kathy and I went for a ride this week I noticed it cutting out some always when it wasn't under throttle but always when I let off or cut back on the throttle. Now to day it idles rough once it warms up and sometimes the engine stops. While riding it after the engine stops while at a stop sign or going slow I smell fuel, like when a choke was too rich. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Bill

 

[3W-lonerider]

I have a 2006 GW1800 with 22K miles. I just had the brake recall completed, all fluids changed and the dealer attempted to repair the intermittent reverse. The dealer swapped out all the major components in the reverse system short of the starter. However the intermittent problem continues. The dealer didn't charge me for the swaps as he couldn't fix it. The SM told me when things are a little slower this winter they will try and run down the problem. I'm not unhappy with the dealer as I think they tried and as we all know intermittent problems are the worst to diagnose and repair. I'm only including this so you'll have a little recent history for the GW. Prior to this the GW always ran strong and smooth. The first of this problem started when I stopped at a stop sign and the engine stopped.

I restarted it and drove on.

Then when Kathy and I went for a ride this week I noticed it cutting out some always when it wasn't under throttle but always when I let off or cut back on the throttle. Now to day it idles rough once it warms up and sometimes the engine stops. While riding it after the engine stops while at a stop sign or going slow I smell fuel, like when a choke was too rich. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Bill

let me start by saying that iv'e been diagnosing engines for 35 years

heres a run down of how i would handle it.

first i would see how much fuel pressure your carrying on the fuel rails.

you said it smells rich, for a fuel injected engine to run rich it's a good possibilty you may have a bad injector thowing to much fuel into a cyl.

i would pull the plug to try and determine if indeed there is one bad.

you will have a black plug if thats the case.

also the plug wires that lead into where the plugs are, are not completly water tight. if the 1800 is anything like the 1500 there will be drain holes that go from the spark plug hole and come out behind the exhaust. if those holes clog up water will remain in those holes shorting the plug out until the water burns off.

i'm not sure if they can plug a laptop into that engine and read codes or not, but my point in that is, a bad injector most times will not throw a code unless it is open or shorted to ground. a flooding injector will not throw a code.

don't rule out an injector because of miles.

i work on brand new engines with less than 2 hours on them and have to replace injectors alot because of this issue.

if all plugs look good then i'd look for a bad wire going to an injector.

also when was the last time the air filter was checked, a clogged air filter will mess things up to.

next i'd be looking at the ohms on the crank position sensor. according to the book,

i also would not rule out a bad spark plug.

plugs can also be read in ohms and they loose their efectiveness over time even though they fire.

not sure if the 1800 has any vacuum lines but if it does i would check those for sure.

 

[paid4c4]

let me start by saying that iv'e been diagnosing engines for 35 years

heres a run down of how i would handle it.

first i would see how much fuel pressure your carrying on the fuel rails.

you said it smells rich, for a fuel injected engine to run rich it's a good possibilty you may have a bad injector thowing to much fuel into a cyl.

i would pull the plug to try and determine if indeed there is one bad.

you will have a black plug if thats the case.

also the plug wires that lead into where the plugs are, are not completly water tight. if the 1800 is anything like the 1500 there will be drain holes that go from the spark plug hole and come out behind the exhaust. if those holes clog up water will remain in those holes shorting the plug out until

the water burns off.

i'm not sure if they can plug a laptop into that engine and read codes or not, but my point in that is, a bad injector most times will not throw a code unless it is open or shorted to ground. a flooding injector will not throw a code.

don't rule out an injector because of miles.

i work on brand new engines with less than 2 hours on them and have to replace injectors alot because of this issue.

if all plugs look good then i'd look for a bad wire going to an injector.

also when was the last time the air filter was checked, a clogged air filter will mess things up to.

next i'd be looking at the ohms on the crank position sensor. according to the book,

i also would not rule out a bad spark plug.

plugs can also be read in ohms and they loose their efectiveness over time even though they fire.

not sure if the 1800 has any vacuum lines but if it does i would check those for sure.

Thank you for the detailed response. I should have mentioned I had the air cleaner replaced while it was being serviced for the brake recall. I am reading the service/shop manual and deciding what to do.

Bill

 

[3W-lonerider]

another thing..if I remember correctly. I have a buddy with an 1800 csc trike.
last fall he was doing some parades and his trike kept stalling and then it started running like crap.
only way he could get it to run half decent was to get it back out unto the highway then it would take awhile before it straightened up.
now if I remember right.
when csc installed the aux tank they installed the fuel line incorrectly and it was filling up the charcoal canister or some type of canister that is on the 1800.
when that would happen the bike would start spewing gas out from under it and it would run like crap.
he took it back to csc and they knew exactly what they had done, re-routed the fuel line and everything is fine now.
if you have an aux. tank installed I'd be checking that fuel line.
before he could see gas under the bike he could smell it.

 

[Gold Rush]

Important information Bill. Very possible a connector did not get fully seated. You might want to have the Honda shop take a look.... That part of the work you did pay for so don't feel like you're asking something for nothing. :xszpv::xszpv:

 

[mhgoldwing]

My first thought is the evap canister is flooded or was flooded with fuel. I had this problem when I overfilled my tank when transferring fuel from the aux. It coughed and sputtered terribly for thirty seconds or so and then began straightening out. I thought it was over but the next day it started again, not as bad but a definite "miss" that drove me crazy. I then learned that the evap system turns on to purge fuel vapor from the canister at intermittent intervals. I changed the canister and the bike hasn't missed a beat since. I think the charcoal was so saturated it just wouldn't dry out and so when the system tried to purge the canister it loaded up the fuel system causing the miss.

So, check to see if anything has flooded the canister; overfill as the gas station, aux. fuel pump operating incorrectly, etc. But the way, a friend of mine got a short in his aux fuel system and it turned the fuell transfer pump and would not shut off. Gas was pouring out of the canister!

It was a wonder it didn't catch fire.

 

[Gold Rush]

Good point... I accidently flipped the switch and had the same result. Do we know Bill has an aux tank? I don't see that information. It is still good information/caution for those that do have the aux tank..:xszpv: :xszpv:

 

[paid4c4]

To the best of my knowledge I do not have an auxiliary fuel tank.
Bill

 

[2006gold]

Had a similar problem with a 2006. After much searching by the shop the problem turned out to be a bad electrical connection where three wires connected under the seat. I was told it was a wire from the clutch.

 

[paid4c4]

An update; The GW started running much rougher. Blowing black smoke (fuel) out the tail pipes at the dealer with the SM riding it. Then it started throwing the F1 code. The SM is a GW rider and Red Certificate Honda Wrench so I feel confident he'll be able to find the problem.
Bill

 

[3W-lonerider]

any news yet.. or is it still at the dealer.

 

[FRR]

I was just reading this post. I do not have any problem, especially like the one described here, but it is another example of how amazed I always am by the amount of knowledge and experience that many of Trike Talk members have and are willing to share. It is a big part of what makes this website so valuable.

 

[paid4c4]

After a week in Myrtle Beach I stopped to check on the GW. The code it was throwing was in the fuel system. The tech said it was carboned up they cleaned up the carbon and the code was gone and the bike idled and ran correctly. He said to use fuel with cleaner or add a can of injector cleaner occasionally.

Seems like an easy fix.

Bill

 

[mhgoldwing]

After a week in Myrtle Beach I stopped to check on the GW. The code it was throwing was in the fuel system. The tech said it was carboned up they cleaned up the carbon and the code was gone and the bike idled and ran correctly. He said to use fuel with cleaner or add a can of injector cleaner occasionally.

Seems like an easy fix.

Bill

What grade fuel are you running? The specs for regular grade. All modern fuels are supposed to have cleaners in them since so many vehicles are now fuel injected. But, this why I tend to stick to major brands or known independents. I never look for the cheapest.

Thanks for following up!

 

[paid4c4]

What grade fuel are you running? The specs for regular grade. All modern fuels are supposed to have cleaners in them since so many vehicles are now fuel injected. But, this why I tend to stick to major brands or known independents. I never look for the cheapest.

Thanks for following up!

The last few tanks have been purchased from my regular place which runs well in my truck and the wife's Lexus. I'll step up one grade and run some cleaner through it occasionally.

Bill

 

[Gold Rush]

The last few tanks have been purchased from my regular place which runs well in my truck and the wife's Lexus. I'll step up one grade and run some cleaner through it occasionally.

Bill

No need to run anything but regular grade Bill. The occasional cleaner is not a bad idea though. I use "Startron" in every tank and an occasional dose of "Sea Foam" (not at the same time though). "Startron" is mostly to counter the alcohol effect but it has some other benefits. "Sea Foam" cleans the entire fuel system.. :xszpv: :xszpv: