V-Cycle runabout Foot brake to handbrake

[Crasher]

This is my first post, I found this site after purchasing a runabout a few weeks ago.

I had a bike wreck that left me paralyzed at the t5.

The trike is now automatic so the only thing to do is fit the foot brake to a handbrake operation.

Anyone have a idea? Pictures maybe on how this has been done? Thanks.

 

[vwbug72501]

Welcome to the forum. This subject has come up regularly and there are tidbits of information scattered in the various forums. Here's an example: https://www.triketalk.com/forum/threads/34974-Ideas-on-braking

I don't think that there are any companies that will have an out of the box solution for you as this is a high liability/low volume market. One recommendation that I will advance is that no matter which type of rear brakes you have, or end up using, keep the mechanical e-brake function. This way you will always have backup solution if your handlebar operated rear brake solution goes South on you. A standard VW e-brake lever placed where you can yank up on it in an emergency might come in handy.

 

[rhino 2]

Shannon ' Welcome to Trike Talk

 

[Sidecarbill]

Maybe you could put the same basic setup you have in your car. That brake pedal is pretty much out in the open. I think you would have good leverage with the push bar. I don't think it would be really difficult to do,and you maintain a seperate front brake.

 

[Gorilla]

welcome aboard Shannon. I would suggest that you find a good local independent motorcycle repair shop. They should be able to rig a handlebar master cylinder to the rear brakes. You only have the rears to make work so it should not be very difficult.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

A few technical things to know.

Automotive brakes/master cyls move or displace a lot more volume. The raw psi in the brake lines is probably comparable.

I have seen a motorcycle handlebar master cyl work with vw automotive brakes.........barely.

First is finding a motorcycle hyd lever that has an unusually large bore (displacement).

Second is having the car brakes in perfect condition and keeping them that way.

There is no room for wear or mis-adjustment.

Now..... let me put down what I would do.

I would use the automotive master cyl and a brake vacuum booster. Then operate it by a cable and lever system.



But of course I am not afraid of making things from scratch and this would take a lot of custom one off work to pull off.

But If you have the resources look into it.

 

[LarryA]

looks like it will work great.....vac res and mc can be located anywhere a cable can be ran, also easy to make a new ratio bar if a ratio change needed. wondering if this setup could be used for a power assisted clutch?? maybe a cam/ratio bar to spread out the clutch release and apply portion of the clutch travel? :xzqxz:

 

[Jack Klarich]

Rex, I have a question

Are you ( in your drawing) using clevis joints and pins or heim joints?

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Clutch.....Yes

This idea was originally conceived with clutch in mind. Would work same clutch or brake.

Yes....if you wanted a variable ratio action you could make the double jointed knuckle set up like you see on a soft tail harley or a dirt bike swing arm (scaled down of course)

And....this was just a sketch of an idea. It is not to scale and no details are engineered out.

Venhill makes good cable kits.

McMaster for clevis and bushings.

Scap yard for a booster (servo) can.

A dune buggy single master cyl.

Then hand make all the other parts to make it fit together.

Like I said....I have not engineered it all the way out. Just tossing ideas. If anyone wants do it then go for it.

 

[vwbug72501]

Nice idea. I would have some questions about if the VW engine could generate enough vacuum volume (especially if cammed, carbed, or turboed) to be dependable. Also if engine quits, brakes/clutch quits. I've thought about maybe using an electric power brake master cylinder something like this from a Lexus LS460: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-2012-...c+power+brakes&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0

That way as long as you have battery you have brake assist.

As for clutch assist I've thought about using something like this hydraulic assist pump from a Mazda 5: https://www.ebay.com/itm/04-05-06-0...TRC1.A0.H0.XElectric+power+steering+pump.TRS0

Just my musings on the systems and applications. Nothing engineered or planned out.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

I doubt a monster cammed or turbo motor could work a vac servo.

But stock bugs did it on a clutch for the auto stick. The autostick had a vacuum operated clutch and a torque coverter.



So yes on the available vacuum on a stockish engine.

Then in the hot rod v8 world there are accessory pumps to power the booster with for cars with big cams and power brakes.

And even modern car....if the engine were to quit the power stearing and power brakes would quit also.

That Lexus part looks very interesting and is small. That is something to definitely research also.

 

[LarryA]

have had ideas.....but have not thought thru...about making a controller for an anti-lock brake motor and pump, controlling motor "on time and speed" for a clutch or brake apply....then using a solenoid controlled pressure bleed off, if used on a clutch setup. Maybe someone is already using a setup like this??? anyhow, food for thought.:xzqxz:

 

[Crasher]

Ok thanks guys, I have the means and know how to do what I need. I was just hoping someone on here has done it and had a idea how they did it. Thanks for the drawing and basic start

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Uhhhh.....yeah......pictures or it didn't happen.

We like to see pics of work.

 

[Crasher]

Uhhhh.....yeah......pictures or it didn't happen.

We like to see pics of work.

Yeah that is sort of what I was hoping for. But yeah I will post up pics. I'm a little slower these days and one thing I learned to depend on those that walk is, You can't lol

 

[grandpanystrom61]

Not sure if this helps anyone, but when I was looking at the clutch system, currently stock cable design, to the idea of a hyd. hand lever operation. I see how the idea Rex has could work, but I was off on a mechanical mechanisim design in the mind.

Okay the push rod can only go so far from hand hyd lever system, so if it is at the lower end of a pinned lever, than the proper pivot point, the length of the upper end of the lever is key to travel of the push rod on the clutch arm with placement of the pivot point. If I can only move 1/4 " at the lower end, do to how all is set up would give the amount of travel for top push rod. I do not have proper terms in my mind to use, but I hope this gives the idea, so Rex you play with this idea before ?

This is far as the idea got, but I have been trying to find what I need so that I can see if the idea has merit.

 

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Yes.....but. shortening the trans lever length is also increasing the amount of force required.

You actually want to decrease the amount of force required from your hand.

The car clutch takes more force to operate. The trick is to get its operating force down to grip strength instead of leg strength.

A light spring pressure plate that takes the least amount of travel to work. Like a 800lb diaphragm.

You get it all just right it would probably be like squeezing an aftermarket hot rod Harley clutch.

 

[grandpanystrom61]

learning more every day, and the amount of times that hand is used, well it does not want to be a chore to do but rather with ease. I found the paper, what I was looking at was hydraulic slave cylinder with a push rod, but did not think about force needed to push the clutch lever forward. Very interesting to me, will have to get back to this later.

 

[Crasher]

Hey guys sorry I been away so long on this topic. I had my accident in March of 2018 and it has been slow healing. I am still a t6 complete

so learning how to move around and do things from a wheelchair.

With that said on the hand brake this is where we are so far. Basically it is a handle replacing footpadle. So far works great. First stages of design anyways.

What do y'all think?