M-8 Oil Migration issues

[Rmitchell55]

Those of you that have had oil migration issues, how much has/will the transmission lose before it stops? Went for a ride today (About 300 miles), checked the oil about an hour and half later engine oil fine, Trans. right at the bottom of the dip stick and the primary oil a little bit high. Will drain and fill both next week and see if it does it again. I am using Red Line oil.

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Mine does not seem to lose near that much in 300 miles,the first time it was checked by the dealer it lost about 2oz in 1000 miles.Is it under warranty if so take it back and make sure you get it recorded with HD.

 

[Trampas]

Those of you that have had oil migration issues, how much has/will the transmission lose before it stops? Went for a ride today (About 300 miles), checked the oil about an hour and half later engine oil fine, Trans. right at the bottom of the dip stick and the primary oil a little bit high. Will drain and fill both next week and see if it does it again. I am using Red Line oil.

As mykneesbehurting, get it on record thru your dealer, I presume you pulled the primary cover since you said it was high and trannie was low, just wished harley would put a dip stick on the primary like the oil and transmission, would make it so easy to check with the oil migration going on, just a thought. Pulling the primary cover is easy I know, just a dip stick would be easier IMHO.

All for now Trampas

 

[MDO]

As mykneesbehurting, get it on record thru your dealer, I presume you pulled the primary cover since you said it was high and trannie was low, just wished harley would put a dip stick on the primary like the oil and transmission, would make it so easy to check with the oil migration going on, just a thought. Pulling the primary cover is easy I know, just a dip stick would be easier IMHO.

All for now Trampas

If the MoCo was going to make a change, they would have done it with the new M8.

They are not making a change because they don't believe there's a problem.

How often do we check the transmission & differential levels in our other vehicles...for me it's almost never. The reason is, you shouldn't have to.

 

[Trampas]

If the MoCo was going to make a change, they would have done it with the new M8.

They are not making a change because they don't believe there's a problem.

How often do we check the transmission & differential levels in our other vehicles...for me it's almost never. The reason is, you shouldn't have to.

I agree totally, that what I can't get, they know they have a problem on some bikes but not all, you would think they could figure it out, have heard there are some fixes for this but harley won't do it because it is to expensive to do, I say bull---s---t, they should fix there mistakes, guess maybe it would take a class action law suit to address this issue.

As far as my other vehicles they get checked once a month, just me I guess, I learned everything from my dad, how to take care of a vehicle so they will last a long time, sure miss him, but learned alot from him

All for now Trampas

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

As has been discussed before,how many do they really know are out there.Lots of riders ride maybe 2-3k a year and come spring they either change the fluids or have the dealer change them,I have been doing my own service work since i was 18 dont ever remember checking oil levels when im changing,just drain and refill so the dealer wouldn't do it either.

Was talking with a service manager that I have personally known since high school,according to HD this is a operator error not a design issue,to which he told the rep BS! They claim it comes from riders shifting into 6th gear before 2500 rpm.Just seems odd that none of the clutch cable bikes has this issue just hyd clutch models.

Now i'm no rocket scientist,but i am a 40 year tool and die maker with lots of exp with hyd and pneumatic's and that has to be the dumbest explanation I have ever heard.From what I hear Baker transmission's is working on a fix so maybe it will be ready by spring.

 

[Jack Klarich]

They claim it comes from riders shifting into 6th gear before 2500 rpm.Just seems odd that none of the clutch cable bikes has this issue just hyd clutch models.

I call BS here also I do it all the time and have no issues

 

[MDO]

As has been discussed before,how many do they really know are out there.Lots of riders ride maybe 2-3k a year and come spring they either change the fluids or have the dealer change them,I have been doing my own service work since i was 18 dont ever remember checking oil levels when im changing,just drain and refill so the dealer wouldn't do it either.

Was talking with a service manager that I have personally known since high school,according to HD this is a operator error not a design issue,to which he told the rep BS! They claim it comes from riders shifting into 6th gear before 2500 rpm.Just seems odd that none of the clutch cable bikes has this issue just hyd clutch models.

Now i'm no rocket scientist,but i am a 40 year tool and die maker with lots of exp with hyd and pneumatic's and that has to be the dumbest explanation I have ever heard.From what I hear Baker transmission's is working on a fix so maybe it will be ready by spring.

People have already fixed the problem, so it's not cockpit error.

Also, they would not have issued a service bulletin for operator errors.

Some of the most amazing BS statements I have ever heard have come from service desks & gun shop counters.

 

[Casper]

I’ve seen on other site that the fix is a new rod in the clutch , bigger I believe...if I can find it again ill post it. Below is what he’s stating...copied and posted here.

OVER 200 ON HAND! Purchase info is below.REMEMBER A $3 PRICE INCREASE FOR STATE SALES TAX HAPPENS MONDAY !GET YOUR NOW!!Your transmission fluid to primary transfer worries are over! I have push rods available for the clutch to take care of the problem. After extensive testing , research and development this is the cure for the problem. This replaces the Harley clutch push rod part number 37000218 . This is the part that changed to allow the fluid to transfer. This push rod will install in 5 minutes. A total of 15 with correcting the fluids. You can order them now. I do accept PayPal.My PayPal is.. macombcountychoppers@gmail.comThey are $49.99 and $17.50 shipping to the lower 48. All of the bikes are affected from 2014 and up with hydraulic clutch . This includes twin cams and Milwaukee 8sTesting revealed that more City ridden motorcycles are susceptible to extensive transfer due to more turning involved.Harley Davidson has no clue how to fix the problem. they pulled the TSB that was out. Most dealers are told to say they don't know anything about this issue. We all know it exists.

 

[hogcowboy]

As has been discussed before,how many do they really know are out there.Lots of riders ride maybe 2-3k a year and come spring they either change the fluids or have the dealer change them,I have been doing my own service work since i was 18 dont ever remember checking oil levels when im changing,just drain and refill so the dealer wouldn't do it either.

Was talking with a service manager that I have personally known since high school,according to HD this is a operator error not a design issue,to which he told the rep BS! They claim it comes from riders shifting into 6th gear before 2500 rpm.Just seems odd that none of the clutch cable bikes has this issue just hyd clutch models.

Now i'm no rocket scientist,but i am a 40 year tool and die maker with lots of exp with hyd and pneumatic's and that has to be the dumbest explanation I have ever heard.From what I hear Baker transmission's is working on a fix so maybe it will be ready by spring.

I call BS here also I do it all the time and have no issues

As far as I'm concerned that's still a design flaw. When a person shifts should have zero bearing on oil migrating. But of course they want to say it's operator error.

It's probably tolerance stacking. Indian has a similar problem they affectionately call "clacking". Where max negative and positive tolerances are resulting in piston slapping. Or something like that. And of course they wanted to claim it was the operator shifting too soon there too.

They must have got their training from HD. It's always the operator for anything until it blows up in their face with a law suit. Deny deny deny seems to be the name of the game. So yes, get it documented. Or better yet...FIXED...if that's at all possible.

I do think Indian is going to make HD up their machines a bit and visa versa. Competition will benefit all these operators that seem to know nothing as far as they are concerned.:Excited:epper:ThumbUp

 

[Jack Klarich]

City ridden motorcycles are susceptible to extensive transfer due to more turning involved

This statement does not ring true with my M8

Mine is a daily rider, often around town running daily chores, I have ZERO transfer

There has been talk on other forums of pushrod changes with some good and some no results

IMO there is NO absolute fix as of yet for ALL the bikes affected

 

[MDO]

This statement does not ring true with my M8

Mine is a daily rider, often around town running daily chores, I have ZERO transfer

There has been talk on other forums of pushrod changes with some good and some no results

IMO there is NO absolute fix as of yet for ALL the bikes affected

It's a very small number of overall hydraulic clutch bikes. We are lucky Jack.

Did you notice quite a few of the new models have cable operated clutches, including the FXDR.

 

[Jack Klarich]

It's a very small number of overall hydraulic clutch bikes. We are lucky Jack.

Did you notice quite a few of the new models have cable operated clutches, including the FXDR.

Yup, The softails

Have not seen any reported migration on them as of yet

IMO, if HD would fix the area around the slave cylinder piston there would be no migration problem

I maintain this is where the fluid gets trapped, ( cannot return to the bottom of the case) so it runs down the pushrod

This and the smaller diameter of the clutch push rod are what I see as the major changes causing this on hydraulic clutch bikes and trikes JMO

 

[rhino 2]

Yup, The softails

Have not seen any reported migration on them as of yet

IMO, if HD would fix the area around the slave cylinder piston there would be no migration problem

I maintain this is where the fluid gets trapped, ( cannot return to the bottom of the case) so it runs down the pushrod

This and the smaller diameter of the clutch push rod are what I see as the major changes causing this on hydraulic clutch bikes and trikes JMO

Jack in my opinion, And a few others i might add...Harley isn't going to fix the M8's that are doing it....They are hopping [like I did] the people that are having the problem will go away....Or trade them in for another Harley...And then let the next owner have the problem....

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

This statement does not ring true with my M8

Mine is a daily rider, often around town running daily chores, I have ZERO transfer

There has been talk on other forums of pushrod changes with some good and some no results

IMO there is NO absolute fix as of yet for ALL the bikes affected

I believe that his statement is aimed at 2 wheeler's but wont swear to it.

 

[Rogue1]

Oil migration

I have read all I can find on the oil migration issue. Just had the first service done (600 miles ago) on me 19 TG. Thought I would check the tranny oil. Registers

at the low mark on the dip stick. As I think back on my past couple of bikes, 2004 TC FLHPI RK, 2015 TC FLHTK, They ALL registered oil level at the low mark when ever I checked them. I would top it off and then at change time, it would be low again. I have never had it NOT register on the dip stick but it was always low. I am wondering if once the oil reaches a level below the clutch push rod going thru the mainshaft, it stops. I believe the design is pretty much the same on all three bikes. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Capt.Bob]

I have read all I can find on the oil migration issue. Just had the first service done (600 miles ago) on me 19 TG. Thought I would check the tranny oil. Registers

at the low mark on the dip stick. As I think back on my past couple of bikes, 2004 TC FLHPI RK, 2015 TC FLHTK, They ALL registered oil level at the low mark when ever I checked them. I would top it off and then at change time, it would be low again. I have never had it NOT register on the dip stick but it was always low. I am wondering if once the oil reaches a level below the clutch push rod going thru the mainshaft, it stops. I believe the design is pretty much the same on all three bikes. Just thinking out loud here.

TarheelLeo, On both my 2016 TC103 TGU and 2017 M8 TGU, I would check the tranny oil dipstick levels and did not find them losing an ounce of fluid. On my 2017 M8 TGU, I changed the tranny oil at the 5k self-service and at 7900 miles, the oil is exactly in the same spot on the top of the range as when I changed it. However, on my 2017, until about the 5600 mile mark, the engine oil levels were indicating slightly higher than usual oil consumption that eventually stopped. From about 6k-7.9k miles, I have not had to add a drop of engine oil and the level remains smack dab in the middle of the stick.

I suspect that whatever is causing these oil migration issues may be manufacturing dependent to a certain extent but then we hear anecdotal stories of the problems cropping up later in the mileage on the 103's and the M8's. It seems a bit like a moving target that nobody has really been able to definitively put their finger on with an explanation that covers the varying difficulties that people are experiencing.

 

[Rogue1]

I don't think I have a problem. I don't know exactly how much the dealer put in when he changed it at the first service. I will Top it up and keep my eye on it but I really don't think I'm having a problem. Thanks for your input

 

[Mykneesbehurtin]

Now this is all speculation on my part from different things i have heard and read.Some engine builders and senior tech's are claiming that the M8's create too much crank case pressure which is causing the oil migration issue,now for me i have a hard time with that claim.And that HD is redesigning the M8 engine cases and breather valves.But since they switched to a hyd clutch it seems strange that there doesn't seem to be an issue with the 16 and down models only 17 and up,so what changed.The engine configuration for one and supposedly they changed the dia of the clutch rod,now i know one should not assume,but if these are the only two things that have changed then it would make sense that it would have to be one of these two changes.

I had the Harley "fix" completed on my transmission and i havent put enough miles on it to really say its fixed so the jury is still out. Rhino2 had this fix on his 17 and it did nothing to fix it. Waiting to see how the 19's do as far as the oil migration before i decide to get a 2020 model.

 

[rhino 2]

Now this is all speculation on my part from different things i have heard and read.Some engine builders and senior tech's are claiming that the M8's create too much crank case pressure which is causing the oil migration issue,now for me i have a hard time with that claim.And that HD is redesigning the M8 engine cases and breather valves.But since they switched to a hyd clutch it seems strange that there doesn't seem to be an issue with the 16 and down models only 17 and up,so what changed.The engine configuration for one and supposedly they changed the dia of the clutch rod,now i know one should not assume,but if these are the only two things that have changed then it would make sense that it would have to be one of these two changes.

I had the Harley "fix" completed on my transmission and i havent put enough miles on it to really say its fixed so the jury is still out. Rhino2 had this fix on his 17 and it did nothing to fix it. Waiting to see how the 19's do as far as the oil migration before i decide to get a 2020 model.

Actually the fix, As they say in Brooklyn.....Made it Worster.........8 hundred miles after the fix it was almost dry.......