Need advice from seasoned mechanically inclined

[Jack Klarich]

Not sure about the residual valve thing. What and where would it be!

If your rear brakes were ever drum brakes you would have had a residual check valve.

Many master cylinders had them built in to the end of the master cylinder where the line goes in. Some had a nut @the end of the master cylinder where the brake line screws in. Behind the nut was the valve and spring. See this picture for an idea about the valve

 

[hogcowboy]

Next, bleed the caliper with the shortest line first (probably requires an assistant).

this is a new one on me? longest is usually 1st,,,,

I saw a post earlier that you had made in this reference.

I was taught in the Raybestos Brake School in 1969.

I worked at a Brake Shop until I became a Line Mechanic for Chevrolet in 1978.

I have been building Trikes since 1998.

I have developed drum to disc brake conversions as well.

In a Tee type fitting where you have lines of differing lengths, as you do in a typical trike application, do the shorter line one first.

And if they are the same length lines, it doesn't matter. (like in most cars)

It saves time and mess and you usually only have to do it once.

When did this change or have I always done it wrong? I've always done the longest first. And if it changed, in some certain year, should you still do those prior to that year by doing the longest first and those after the shortest. Got me wondering now if I've just been doing it wrong though. I'm not sure I'm seeing an advantage of one over the other except by doing the longest first I know I have new fluid all the way thru the system. It would seem like by doing the shortest first that there is a chance that old fluid(very small amount) might get trapped at the junctions. No?

 

[Lee H. Mann]

Not sure about the residual valve thing. What and where would it be!

The residual check is either a red or blue anodized valve in the line running from the M/C to the TEE.

It maintains slight pressure (2-10psi) at the wheels to keep the pistons in either a wheel cylinder or a caliper from retracting too much after use. So you don't have to pump the brakes to get a pedal !!

 

[Sidecarbill]

Quite simply put, brakes aren't simple. Heck we don't even need them most of the time. With what I've read here I would be inspecting the entire system front to rear. Making sure lines are routed properly,bolts tight etc. In other words treat it like a new installation. An installation where the guy that did it didn't know what he was doing. Sometimes brakes can come in handy.:laugh:

 

[Kook]

It did have a residual valve added, I have pretty much done the new line thing. Still having. Problems getting air out. Is almost as fun as getting a root canal so far!

 

[rhino 2]

Quite simply put brakes aren't simple. Heck we don't even need them most of the time. With what I've read here I would be inspecting the entire system front to rear. Making sure lines are routed properly,bolts tight etc. In other words treat it like a new installation. An installation where the guy that did it didn't know what he was doing. Sometimes brakes can come in handy.:laugh:

I don’t see what the problem is you only need brakes when you want to stop I rode for years without any brakes on my ATC’s.. but then again there was always a tree I could use to stop me ...

 

[Kook]

Ok now I have decided that bleeding both rear brakes at one time may help with my issues. The only other thing I have in mind is to raise the fluid container. What is anyone’s idea?

 

[Kook]

Ok I have done all I can think of. Bled master cyl, pushed thru booster, bled calipers. My system goes from master to booster then right rear wheel where has another line running to left caliper. I can get to pedal by a little pumping but haven’t taken it out yet. Any other suggestions? Need your experience.

this master had brakes before the accident now they dot see to get right.

 

[Sidecarbill]

If you can figure out a way to hold the brake pedal down with a bungie cord. Then pump the pedal till it's hard, tie it down as tight you can with the bungie. Leave it overnight should be better in morning. If it's better but not as good as you think it can be do it again.

 

[Jack Klarich]

If you pump up the brakes, use slow pumps so you do not churn up more air bubbles, tie the pedal down. Wait til the next day with pedal still tied down, loosen 1 bleeder slowly at a time while checking for air. Repeat if needed. Keep the master cylinder full during this process. If you find while pumping the brakes you need more than 1/2 to 3/4 of a pump to build pressure you may already have a weak seal in the master cylinder.

 

[Kook]

Quite simply put brakes aren't simple. Heck we don't even need them most of the time. With what I've read here I would be inspecting the entire system front to rear. Making sure lines are routed properly,bolts tight etc. In other words treat it like a new installation. An installation where the guy that did it didn't know what he was doing. Sometimes brakes can come in handy.:laugh:

I have done pretty much all of that. Broke lines, bled lines by component tightened and polished connections new seals on lines. Have no idea what to do next!

 

[Sidecarbill]

If you open the bleeder you defeat the purpose.

 

[Jack Klarich]

If you open the bleeder you defeat the purpose.

No, you will be sure to remove any air from the master to the calipers, plus this will help to remove air trapped in the master cylinder if the brake system is not leaking and all seals are capable of holding pressure it will have forced the air to the highest points in the system the bleeders

 

[Sidecarbill]

Well I'm just gonna say you're wrong on this one. I've done it many times it works. But I'm done.this is like trying to fix some body's car over the phone.:laugh:

 

[Jack Klarich]

Well I'm just gonna say you're wrong on this one. I've done it many times it works. But I'm done.this is like trying to fix some body's car over the phone.:laugh:

You are absolutely right this is like trying to fix it over the phone. The OP keeps coming back in with more and more info that should have been posted @ the beginning, like the accident and the brakes working condition before? I am not saying your approach did not work, I have done that way many times also. I want to know for sure that ALL the air is out and the master cylinder is able to hold pressure with out fade from air. I also want to be sure there is a good seal @ the calipers.

 

[hogcowboy]

Have you tried pushing new fluid in the reverse way? Thru the bleeder back to the top. It is very time consuming as you have to be very careful not to get the reservoir overflowing so constant removal of fluid. But that might dislodge the air bubble or bubbles. Another thing to try is to use a vibrating sander as a means to vibrate any hard lines and junctions. Sometimes you have to transfer the vibration with a screwdriver to get to tight places. I'd do this after it has sat overnight so all the tiny bubbles should have become one big one. Sometimes a simple darn job becomes a big pain in the backside.

 

[Jack Klarich]

Have you tried pushing new fluid in the reverse way? Thru the bleeder back to the top. It is very time consuming as you have to be very careful not to get the reservoir overflowing so constant removal of fluid. But that might dislodge the air bubble or bubbles. Another thing to try is to use a vibrating sander as a means to vibrate any hard lines and junctions. Sometimes you have to transfer the vibration with a screwdriver to get to tight places. I'd do this after it has sat overnight so all the tiny bubbles should have become one big one. Sometimes a simple darn job becomes a big pain in the backside.

That is a good idea, I have used wrenches and tapped on the lines, on rubber flex hoses I give them a few shakes. This will speed up the air bubbles also

 

[Kook]

itjust keeps going and going!

I took it to another shop and we got it to work but somehow it works its way loose at the calipers. i am going to put single piston calipers on it (now have them so when we get a warm snap will be installing). then i also bought some bushings that have a sealing material i will be using instead of the copper looking things.. then going to do the bleed thing again..

Maybe this time.

 

[Kook]

I have a 05 Road Star with a Champion kit. I could never get my back brake to work, no matter how I bleed it. The master is designed to handle one caliper but being asked to handle two! It's six years ago so I don't know where on Ebay I found a larger one . With a few mounting mods, it works so good, I rarely use the front brake. It's progressive enough that I can even use it as a trailing brake in the twisties.



View attachment 91023

Looks like it needs to be repainted. Its only six years old.

Before the crash mine would stop on a dime. Had a Champion trike kit and loved the bike. Have had problems since I was stupid enough to not let the bike die and get a new one. The "shop" i used F*ed it up bad and finally told me to get it and wrote it off. Now am learning bike repair by trial and error (mostly error)