Agreed. Legislators spend way too much time thinking up ridiculous laws far too often. Seems I recall hearing that in this state, they wanted to make it illegal for adults to smoke inside their OWN HOME if minors were present. Not sure if it passed or not, but good grief! Enough is enough! LOL!
Michigan dropped helmet law
- Thread starter meredog
- Start date
Agreed. Legislators spend way too much time thinking up ridiculous laws far too often. Seems I recall hearing that in this state, they wanted to make it illegal for adults to smoke inside their OWN HOME if minors were present. Not sure if it passed or not, but good grief! Enough is enough! LOL!
- Thread starter
- #22
I can respect the "savior" folks who implement studies with our tax dollars. To study the use of seatbelts--smoking in public places---motorcycle helmets ect.
If after their "studies" are completed , I can respect them advertising their findings and their suggestions pro or con.
Where I disagree is when they try to force their findings down peoples throats and finding a way to get into our pockets with fines ect. if we do not submit to their beleifs :Shrug:
skuuter
10000+ Posts
Keep it "NICE" Folks.....Good Discussions with Good Points so far, let's keep it there......ThumbUp 
Riding a motorcycle is not an inherently dangerous under taking. You're getting way off Target. If I use your premise I would ban Autos as well. After all if you're driving can you not crash and die and more lives are lost in cars than motorcycle crashes correct? Yes!
So Back on topic... ThumbUp
1) There are laws in place that say you can not leave your house with out putting pants on.. so if you decide to not wear pants or undies isn't that an infringement of your personal freedoms?
2)Gun's and owning a gun is not against the law if you are not a convicted Felon or the state can show that you have a history of mental illness. But, there are gun laws in place for the safety of the gun owner and the general public? Do you think there should be no gun laws what so ever? Should there be no safety laws in place for Driving on the roads in the USA?
I FEEL...Some laws are bad laws and some laws are good... I don't choose the laws that are in place and I don't follow every law in place. But, when it comes to common sense like Not yelling fire in a crowded theater, unloading a clip from an AR15 in a populated city into the air on new years eve and for me wearing a helmet which is not a law in many states.. I PERSONALLY opt for the Helmet!
The only people I care about wearing a helmet.. are the people I care about! ThumbUp
I like The people on Trike Talk and I would want them to walk away from every crash and be as safe as possible...What's wrong with that? :Shrug:
Keep it "NICE" Folks.....Good Discussions with Good Points so far, let's keep it there......ThumbUp
I love a good debate and just as long as no one talks about my mom..i'm ok ThumbUp
- Thread starter
- #26
tu-shey my mom wears a helmet !! So do we when she is in sight !!:busted::
Totally in agreement with you ThumbUp
Borrowing the stats that DanDolfn provided:
"Per mile traveled in 1998, a motorcyclist is approximately 16 times more likely to die in a crash than an automobile occupant. And 3x (times) as likely to be injured.
In 1998, 46% of fatally injured motorcycle drivers were not wearing helmets at the time of the crash. [Presumably, the 54% who WERE wearing helmets were fatally injured regardless.]
NHTSA estimates that motorcycle helmets reduce the likelihood of a fatality by 29% in a crash."
The first is a no brainer as automobiles provide more protection by virtue of their design.
The second actually favors NOT wearing helmets by a slight margin (at least from the stats determined by the NHTSA)
The third..........29% is not 100%. Not even 50%. A figure of 29% is not what I'd call conclusive or even strongly compelling. If they can't CONCLUSIVELY prove that helmets indeed save lives 100% of the time, then I don't understand how they justify making it "law" in some states. In line with your train of thought, it'd be more practical if they said something like "It can't be absolutely proven, but in the interest of safety, we would recommend that one chooses to wear a helmet by their own choice, not by mandate".
Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point. <<< While I do use that line once in a while I did cut and paste from Wikipedia ( for Shame )!
I will just address the latter part of your retort.
Just because you jump from an airplane does not mean you are going to die. But, your chances for survival increase by leaps and bounds if you are wearing a parachute, or if the plane is not air borne or moving. So unless you are going to just sit on your non moving motorcycle logic dictates the use of protective gear.
There are a million other things that there are laws for and against Like insurance for you motorcycle or car.. not everyone is going to crash or hit something when they drive or ride..but I think in most states it's required by law. Good law bad law???
If a Mack truck creams you while you are on your motorcycle head on while you're doing 75 and the truck is going 75... Forget about it! Helmet or no helmet you'll be seeing a tunnel with a light sure enough in my opinion. But, for those crashes where there is not significant trauma to the body to cause death or brain damage a helmet sounds like a great idea?
hehehe.......These aren't my stats, but the NHTSA's......Shame on you for calling the NHTSA a buncha liars, LMAO!!!!!!!
O.K........more "Fun With Numbers"
:46% fatality rate without helmet/54% fatality rate with helmet = a difference of 8 points.
29% that helmets might reduce fatalities.......29% + 8 points = 37% that no helmet might reduce fatalities...........
All I know is that AZ is a rider's choice state and I don't/won't wear one.....just like this guy :Trike1:.....he's not wearing one and he's doing just fine, ROTFLMAO!
- Thread starter
- #31
our home is on (just off) M-66 witch is a main state artery in Mich. Yesterday's weather had the motorcycles streaming by----I would venture to say 3/4 of the bikes that went by were ridden by helmetless riders.
Riding a motorcycle is not an inherently dangerous under taking. You're getting way off Target.
Actually, not.
My point is that riding with a helmet is 29% safer than riding without a helmet. It's a measurable difference.
BUT, per mile traveled, you are 1600% more likely to die while riding a bike as opposed to riding in a car.
SO, if this conversation is simply about rational evaluations of risk, it's FAR more risky to ride a bike at all than it is to ride a bike without a helmet than with a helmet.
I have no problem with choice. Whoever's head it is ought to have the right to decide for themselves what level of risk they are comfortable with.
I only have a problem with people who insist that riding without a helmet is unsafe when riding a bike at all is about 50 times more unsafe.
It's kinda like the Bible story, IMHO, in focusing on the mote in someone else's eye while ignoring the beam in your own eye.
The fact is that all of us who ride make the decision that the risk is worth the pleasure. Choosing to ride without a helmet is the same thing.
And if you choose to ride with a helmet, you do increase your chances of survival. Just not to the point where is compares to riding in a car.
Actually, not.
My point is that riding with a helmet is 29% safer than riding without a helmet. It's a measurable difference.
BUT, per mile traveled, you are 1600% more likely to die while riding a bike as opposed to riding in a car.
SO, if this conversation is simply about rational evaluations of risk, it's FAR more risky to ride a bike at all than it is to ride a bike without a helmet than with a helmet.
I have no problem with choice. Whoever's head it is ought to have the right to decide for themselves what level of risk they are comfortable with.
I only have a problem with people who insist that riding without a helmet is unsafe when riding a bike at all is about 50 times more unsafe.
It's kinda like the Bible story, IMHO, in focusing on the mote in someone else's eye while ignoring the beam in your own eye.
The fact is that all of us who ride make the decision that the risk is worth the pleasure. Choosing to ride without a helmet is the same thing.
And if you choose to ride with a helmet, you do increase your chances of survival. Just not to the point where is compares to riding in a car.
hehehe.......These aren't my stats, but the NHTSA's......Shame on you for calling the NHTSA a buncha liars, LMAO!!!!!!!
O.K........more "Fun With Numbers"
46% fatality rate without helmet/54% fatality rate with helmet = a difference of 8 points.
29% that helmets might reduce fatalities.......29% + 8 points = 37% that no helmet might reduce fatalities...........
All I know is that AZ is a rider's choice state and I don't/won't wear one.....just like this guy :Trike1:.....he's not wearing one and he's doing just fine, ROTFLMAO!
Gotta love it!!! ThumbUp
Point well stated and taken! ThumbUp
I only wear a helmet out of habit... I feel naked with out one. While I have gotten on a trike in AZ when it was 126deg with out one for a ride into Scottsdale from a near by resort... I guess on the freeways, in cities and at speed is where I feel that the wind noise, bugs and my wife hitting me in the head to see something seems like a distraction to me...
The only thing I can equate it with is I'll drive with the windows down in town or at low speeds and the wind does not bother me. On the free way I putt he windows up as the noise and the turbulence bothers me to no end.
Why I have three helmets that are in my opinion life savers... One cracked, and two sheered flat on the side from contact with the pavement.. I'm a helmet person all day long as I can't afford to lose any more brain cells just ask my wife. :Shrug:
I don't make fun of people that don't wear helmets as a matter of fact I never say anything to people who don't wear them. I just think they're safe for me!
But, I will always advocate helmet usage to friends and family with out shame or ill feelings... And I do understand that as adults it truly is a personal choice. ThumbUp
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The controversy has gone on for nearly 40 YEARS.......If some study could conclusively prove that helmets are what they claim to be, then we wouldn't even be talking about this. A mandatory helmet law would have been imposed upon us across the board..........But no one has been able to conclusively prove it, so the controversy continues.
If anything, the 46% fatality rate without helmets vs. 54% fatality rate with helmets that the NHTSA figures speak of actually suggest in favor of NOT wearing a helmet, if even only by a slight margin.
Absolutely pro-choice on this one. Each individual should be able to decide for themselves without being forced to and without being criticized for their personal choice, as the figures are pretty dang close to 50/50 odds.
Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet is that there's a lobby by manufacturer's of helmets to try to force mandatory helmet use. Obviously fueled by self interest and greed, but it kinda irks me that manufacturers of aftermarket accessories (helmets) for motorcycles (and motorcycling being one of the last areas of exercising personal freedom) would try to impose their greedy will on their own peer group.
If anything, the 46% fatality rate without helmets vs. 54% fatality rate with helmets that the NHTSA figures speak of actually suggest in favor of NOT wearing a helmet, if even only by a slight margin.
Absolutely pro-choice on this one. Each individual should be able to decide for themselves without being forced to and without being criticized for their personal choice, as the figures are pretty dang close to 50/50 odds.
Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet is that there's a lobby by manufacturer's of helmets to try to force mandatory helmet use. Obviously fueled by self interest and greed, but it kinda irks me that manufacturers of aftermarket accessories (helmets) for motorcycles (and motorcycling being one of the last areas of exercising personal freedom) would try to impose their greedy will on their own peer group.
Hmmmm I was thinking about this post... Every Non-wearing helmet guy and Gal that I know who own or ride on a regular basis.. Own some sort of a helmet... just not like the one that Jack Nicholson wears in EASY Rider..LMAO
... But close!Also no one mentioned anything about that maybe people who have not been riding more than a year or two.. tend to crash more than a guy or gal who has been riding for 10 plus years.. though you can crash at any time.
I like the Idea of a helmet law for those under 18 and for those who are new to riding???? :Shrug:
Hmmmm I was thinking about this post... Every Non-wearing helmet guy and Gal that I know who own or ride on a regular basis.. Own some sort of a helmet... just not like the one that Jack Nicholson wears in EASY Rider..LMAO
Also no one mentioned anything about that maybe people who have not been riding more than a year or two.. tend to crash more than a guy or gal who has been riding for 10 plus years.. though you can crash at any time.
I like the Idea of a helmet law for those under 18 and for those who are new to riding???? :Shrug:
Started riding in 1973 and I don't own a helmet of any kind......not even a Jack Nicholson football helmet :laugh::laugh::laugh: Also know many, many non-helmet wearing folks who also don't own helmets. I'm sure there's some out there who do and no problem here.
Even tho' AZ is a helmet optional state, it is required for those under 18 and I see no problem there, either. But new riders aged 18 and over don't have to wear them if they choose not to. Not that it matters to me (that freedom of choice thing) but even with no helmet law in place here, have been noticing a lot more riders choosing to wear them. It's all good.........each to their own ThumbUp
I had mentioned in an earlier post that the Queensland State government tried to ban open face helmets. We have just had a change of state gov. They have a very large majority so what they want they can get.
Word has got out that they plan several changes that will effect motorcyclists.
Putting a 4 year expiry on helmets. As there is no production date on helmets that will be interesting to enforce.
Higher registration costs for motorcycles but freezing increases for passenger cars.
Hi-Vis clothing for bike riders.
A 0% alcohol blood reading for motorcycles but .05% for car drivers. ( Currently .05% for all drivers )
Re introduction of front identification on motorcycles ( front rego. plates were removed in the 1970s due to pedestrian & rider collision injuries )
Increased use of wire rope barriers ( Cheese cutters ) on roadsides. This has been a safety issue that has been lobbied on for some time.
There is a protest meeting planned in just over a week. That will be interesting. Riders coming from all over South East Queensland.
Sure sounds like riders are being singled out for special treatment.
You guys in the U.S. sure seem to have a better deal than what we are getting here.
Word has got out that they plan several changes that will effect motorcyclists.
Putting a 4 year expiry on helmets. As there is no production date on helmets that will be interesting to enforce.
Higher registration costs for motorcycles but freezing increases for passenger cars.
Hi-Vis clothing for bike riders.
A 0% alcohol blood reading for motorcycles but .05% for car drivers. ( Currently .05% for all drivers )
Re introduction of front identification on motorcycles ( front rego. plates were removed in the 1970s due to pedestrian & rider collision injuries )
Increased use of wire rope barriers ( Cheese cutters ) on roadsides. This has been a safety issue that has been lobbied on for some time.
There is a protest meeting planned in just over a week. That will be interesting. Riders coming from all over South East Queensland.
Sure sounds like riders are being singled out for special treatment.
You guys in the U.S. sure seem to have a better deal than what we are getting here.
It's interesting to hear how things are where you live, but it also sounds like the new state gov. isn't very biker ("bikie" in Aussie lingo, yes ?) friendly.
When you say "4 year expiry on helmets", does that mean that riders would have to buy new helmets every 4 years ??? If so, that sounds unnecessary and at no small expense. And if I've even got this right, it wouldn't surprise me if the helmet industry is lobbying for this to make a lot of $$$.
The higher registration costs for m/c's and not passenger cars sounds downright discriminatory.
If the front registration plates are what I'm thinking of from the old British and European bikes, have heard them called "pedestrian splitters", LOL! Am also picturing the wire rope barriers that would be a huge hazard, especially for riders and that's insane! There's got to be a better way.........
It's good that there's protests being planned as Y'all sure are entitled to air your justifiable grievances.
Keep the Faith and Ride Safe.........ThumbUp
(You're probably wide awake in Queensland......it's past midnight here and there's a pillow calling my name.......hehehe)
Yes, the proposal is riders would be required to buy a new helmet every 4 years.
Front rego plates here used to be across the bike so seen from the front. Blocking air flow to the engine if mounted on the front mudguard. It was common to fit them above the headlight,in front of the instruments. I worked in casualty in a hospital at the time. Had more than a few riders have a head on accident, fly over the 'bars and slice off his family jewels.
The "cheese cutter" barriers are. Vertical posts up to 4ft. high with steel woven cable about as thick as your thumb passed through holes in the posts. The final result is a "barrier" that small cars pass between the horizontal cables. Big trucks just plow through the barrier. Motorcyclists slide along the cables and get slices to bits. No amount of protesting,so far has had any effect. Traveling at 60 mph with these barriers a mere couple of feet from your body. I can't get far enough away from them.
Oh, and it's just after 6.30 on Friday evening here. Have a good night.
Front rego plates here used to be across the bike so seen from the front. Blocking air flow to the engine if mounted on the front mudguard. It was common to fit them above the headlight,in front of the instruments. I worked in casualty in a hospital at the time. Had more than a few riders have a head on accident, fly over the 'bars and slice off his family jewels.
The "cheese cutter" barriers are. Vertical posts up to 4ft. high with steel woven cable about as thick as your thumb passed through holes in the posts. The final result is a "barrier" that small cars pass between the horizontal cables. Big trucks just plow through the barrier. Motorcyclists slide along the cables and get slices to bits. No amount of protesting,so far has had any effect. Traveling at 60 mph with these barriers a mere couple of feet from your body. I can't get far enough away from them.
Oh, and it's just after 6.30 on Friday evening here. Have a good night.
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