Wings clipped.Trans dead.

[Marc H]

Its alright Greg I really appreciate you and everyone who have tried to help.What I really think is going on is the 4-5 shift fork is worn allowing the shift collar to basically hunt back and forth between the gears and the is the teeth on the collar lightly rubbing the teeth on the gear thats why its quiet in 4th & 5th.The collar is actually engaged.I also think at this point I need to stop messing with it and accept reality that to find the issue I will be tearing the engine down.

The thing I didn't tell was I removed the clutch itself and started the bike and the noise wasn't there so that tells me it has to be in the transmission.I guess I was hoping for confirmation since you never know when someone will say I heard that before and it was this.It will be a few weeks before I get a chance to get deeper into this.I'll report what I find when find it for future info for others.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Its alright Greg I really appreciate you and everyone who have tried to help.What I really think is going on is the 4-5 shift fork is worn allowing the shift collar to basically hunt back and forth between the gears and the is the teeth on the collar lightly rubbing the teeth on the gear thats why its quiet in 4th & 5th.The collar is actually engaged.I also think at this point I need to stop messing with it and accept reality that to find the issue I will be tearing the engine down.

The thing I didn't tell was I removed the clutch itself and started the bike and the noise wasn't there so that tells me it has to be in the transmission.I guess I was hoping for confirmation since you never know when someone will say I heard that before and it was this.It will be a few weeks before I get a chance to get deeper into this.I'll report what I find when find it for future info for others.

With your prior info, I was left knowing that it was either a clutch or tranny problem. However, now that you are providing more information (clutch removed), I agree with your transmission diagnosis, and that a fork has been damaged. Your noise is caused from dogs on a slider gear not fully disengaging with the dogs on another gear.

Here is what it sounds like on a GL1800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsvcWcF3hk

Here are couple of things to remember when doing transmission repair. 1) Fork damage is always the result of another problem. Never, ever assume that a fork caused it. 2) Not all transmission damage is visible to the naked eye, therefore be sure to have your gears, shift forks, shift drum and drum cams, magna fluxed for hair-line cracks and cancer. 3) Have your shafts checked for excessive run-out.

Also ... got any more info that you are not sharing that might be critical to diagnosis ???

 

[trike lady]

The shift forks for the Wing and Valk are the same.

The transmission gears are a bit different in tooth count for both bikes.

If you are thinking about pulling the engine and rebuilding the trans.

 

[trike lady]

The difference between the Valk and Wing trans.

Everything is pretty much the same with the exception of main shaft fourth, counter shaft fourth, counter shaft fifth gear and main shaft fifth gear.

Here's the gear tooth count for the Valk:

Main shaft fourth: 30T

Counter shaft fourth: 30T

Main shaft fifth: 36T

Counter shaft fifth: 29T

Here's the gear tooth count for the Wing:

Main shaft fourth: 28T

Counter shaft fourth: 27T

Main shaft fifth: 29T

Counter shaft fifth: 22T

The shift drum is also different and would not work on the Wing.

 

[Marc H]

The difference between the Valk and Wing trans.

Everything is pretty much the same with the exception of main shaft fourth, counter shaft fourth, counter shaft fifth gear and main shaft fifth gear.

Here's the gear tooth count for the Valk:

Main shaft fourth: 30T

Counter shaft fourth: 30T

Main shaft fifth: 36T

Counter shaft fifth: 29T

Here's the gear tooth count for the Wing:

Main shaft fourth: 28T

Counter shaft fourth: 27T

Main shaft fifth: 29T

Counter shaft fifth: 22T

The shift drum is also different and would not work on the Wing.

Yep.The more I look into the situation here the more fixing it just isn't what I want to do right now.Just hard to give up on a good running engine.I may tear down and label everything at some point for info for others but it will be awhile before I cn really proceed with repairs.I will continue to study things but I personally feel the best options at this point are a 97-00 complete engine or short block.Not as much into the short block option due changes in the heads and cams.I don't really know exactly what they were other than bearings in rockers just that they happened.Does anybody actually know?

 

[trike lady]

If you go with a newer engine, keep your 1989 induction and carb control unit.

 

[Marc H]

I want to thank Greg and and Trike Lady and everyone else that helped out in any way.I really appreciate your help and patience pushing me through the denial stage of the situation.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

I want to thank Greg and and Trike Lady and everyone else that helped out in any way.I really appreciate your help and patience pushing me through the denial stage of the situation.

You are very welcome.

I understand your "denial," and that's an excellent way of describing it. If you had a GL1800, and read about ghost shifting symptoms on my web page, I address "denial" and include it as a symptom of ghost shifting. "The rider often blames it on a "miss shift," not wanting to believe what he just felt was a ghost shift."

Keep up posted on what you do.

 

[trike lady]

You're welcome.

 

[Marc H]

Well i'm done for the foreseeable future.I've lost 1/4 of my income so this will probably sit in the corner for awhile.I have the engine out of it and I will tear in when I feel inspired.

 

[trike lady]

When you take the engine apart photograph everything and label.

Then order the replacement parts and do the work at your leisure.

Replace all the forks and any worn parts in the trans.

Loss of funds is never good.

 

[Marc H]

I'll remember that.The real insult to injury is I had found a 2000 model trans for $100 shipped.I'll survive.When you make the small amount I do it takes a bit to recover from setbacks and i've had several already this year.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

The real insult to injury is I had found a 2000 model trans for $100 shipped.

You may have save $100 by not buying it. I've bought used GL1800 transmissions before. Often they're in worst shape then ones I remove for repair. Sometimes they come out of a motor that was removed from a wrecked Wing. The engine gets pulled, stored, rained on, and water collects inside the motor and begins rusting the gears. I've had a couple of them cost me nearly $800 to bring back to "perfect" condition.

 

[trike lady]

Save a little at a time and purchase new parts.

It's a job you want to do only once.

 

[Marc H]

With your prior info, I was left knowing that it was either a clutch or tranny problem. However, now that you are providing more information (clutch removed), I agree with your transmission diagnosis, and that a fork has been damaged. Your noise is caused from dogs on a slider gear not fully disengaging with the dogs on another gear.

Here is what it sounds like on a GL1800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcsvcWcF3hk

Here are couple of things to remember when doing transmission repair. 1) Fork damage is always the result of another problem. Never, ever assume that a fork caused it. 2) Not all transmission damage is visible to the naked eye, therefore be sure to have your gears, shift forks, shift drum and drum cams, magna fluxed for hair-line cracks and cancer. 3) Have your shafts checked for excessive run-out.

Also ... got any more info that you are not sharing that might be critical to diagnosis ???

Got bored and dissected it today.Suspicions confirmed.Damaged fork and collar.

 

[trike lady]

That's great and it will be less expensive than replacing the entire engine.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

Got bored and dissected it today.Suspicions confirmed.Damaged fork and collar.

Just an FYI ... when it comes to these transmissions, unless the fork is defective, it is never the cause of the problem. A damaged fork is always the result of another issue.

Pictures would help

 

[Marc H]

I remember you saying that.I noticed last year that my shifter was sticking part of the time basically mimicking riding with heel on the shifter.My fault I realize but I did change lube and haven't had a reoccurance but I realize that may have caused this.Any advise is welcome.

 

[Marc H]

After I snapped the last pic I noticed the shaft wasn't seated completely so the fork may look much worse than it really is.

 

[GoldWingrGreg]

In the circle, is that a broken tooth ???

The gap, is worn wide, and the fork is worn thin. It means that the fork cannot place and hold the slider gear that the fork rides in, in a correct position between the gears. Thus your chatter. Because of the wear, it also means that when the slider gear is pushed into a gear for engagement, that it's not pushed in far enough for a healthy gear change. The blueing on the fork and the slider, is from heat.